XRGB-mini Framemeister

[RGB32E]

Hello,

I just get my Xmini and have issues with CPS-II.
My problem is about the too high RGB levels.

I have read about 160ohms and 220ohms resistors

Which one should be the best ?
(I searched for an option in the xrgb menu but the only solution is too add physical resistors right ?)

Thank you

220 works best overall for most arcade boards. You will still have a little too bright of an image using 220 ohm resistors with the CPS-2. To fine tune the strength of the signal, adjust the A/D Level setting in the "Special" menu on the XRGB-mini. Lowering the A/D level value has the effect of increasing resistance to the signal (gets darker). For CPS-2 with 220 ohm the A/D level I use is around 115 (default value is 128).

160 ohms is what I used with my PVM-2030 since it displays darker than it should. So, using the lower value compensates for the lack of brightness - until the PVM warms up after an hour.

[Smashbro29]

I noticed on this write up: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/framemeister.html that there's a wishlist for future firmware stuff one in particular caught my eye:

- make sure the V-Sync switch does work. Currently it switches back to auto by itself. This is a must for capturing.

Did that ever happen? One of the main reasons I'm springing for this is capture.

[Zapf]

I noticed on this write up: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/framemeister.html that there's a wishlist for future firmware stuff one in particular caught my eye:

- make sure the V-Sync switch does work. Currently it switches back to auto by itself. This is a must for capturing.

Did that ever happen? One of the main reasons I'm springing for this is capture.

Why would use the frame meister for capture - capturing the original video and just manipulating it on your pc makes way more sense.

[crmb]

220 works best overall for most arcade boards. You will still have a little too bright of an image using 220 ohm resistors with the CPS-2. To fine tune the strength of the signal, adjust the A/D Level setting in the "Special" menu on the XRGB-mini. Lowering the A/D level value has the effect of increasing resistance to the signal (gets darker). For CPS-2 with 220 ohm the A/D level I use is around 115 (default value is 128).

160 ohms is what I used with my PVM-2030 since it displays darker than it should. So, using the lower value compensates for the lack of brightness - until the PVM warms up after an hour.

Thank you, i will try in a first place with fixed 220 (i ordered 221r 0,1%).

[ragimaz]

Hi everyone,

I recently purchased an XRGB-mini, but am having troubles getting it to work.

I would like to use it with my SNES, N64 and NES-systems, but for some reason all I get when I connect them is loud static sound, hearing the game behind this very faintly. There is no picture, and I really don't know what is the problem. I tried doing as much research as possible before buying it and connecting everything(reading this thread for example), but I still can't get it right it seems.

I have uploaded a picture, describing my setup here: http://i.imgur.com/pZwZG.jpg

I tried two different setups, both giving almost the same result. I could hear the game a bit better when I took away the Scart-switch, but still no picture and very loud static. I concluded that it must have been the cable I got from Retro Gaming Cables that was faulty, and after me describing my issue, they agreed. I sent it back, and now got an e-mail back from them saying they found the cable to actually be working. They have no idea what the problem could be.

Can anyone help?

[Fudoh]

What about the other inputs ? Does everything work when connected through composite or component or HDMI ?

[Smashbro29]

I noticed on this write up: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/framemeister.html that there's a wishlist for future firmware stuff one in particular caught my eye:

- make sure the V-Sync switch does work. Currently it switches back to auto by itself. This is a must for capturing.

Did that ever happen? One of the main reasons I'm springing for this is capture.

Why would use the frame meister for capture - capturing the original video and just manipulating it on your pc makes way more sense.

Figure if I'm gonna use it to play I may as well just add it as a another HDMI device to my existing capture setup rather than mess around with a whole new capture setup.

[ragimaz]

What about the other inputs ? Does everything work when connected through composite or component or HDMI ?

How do you mean?

The setup works fine without the mini involved, no problems at all. I just plug the SCART from my switch into the TV and that has always worked.

Just tried the hdmi1 input for the mini, and noticed it wouldn't produce a picture either at first: I had to change the "SYNC_MODE" from AUTO to OFF. With AUTO it seems it tried to force it to display in 50hz I guess? Could that have been the issue? Can't try with my SNES at the moment as I don't have the converter cable right now.

[crmb]

Is this schematic correct to convert HV for DC/Naomi VGA ?

R1 3.3kΩ
R2 1.2kΩ
R3 820Ω
R4 68Ω
Q1 BC548B

[Smashbro29]

Is this schematic correct to convert HV for DC/Naomi VGA ?

http://seagrief.co.uk/wp-content/upload ... -SCART.png

R1 3.3kΩ
R2 1.2kΩ
R3 820Ω
R4 68Ω
Q1 BC548B

Is this what I would give someone before telling them to take my money and make me whatever will make this work ok?

[RGB32E]

Is this what I would give someone before telling them to take my money and make me whatever will make this work ok?

It's what I've built for others - PC to PVM, and Dreamcast RGBHV to SCART, ect...

[Smashbro29]

Is this what I would give someone before telling them to take my money and make me whatever will make this work ok?

It's what I've built for others - PC to PVM, and Dreamcast RGBHV to SCART, ect...

Well alright if this is what I need to have best and easiest experience playing Dreamcast on my future Framemeister, what's my cost looking like and will having a retrobit VGA box make it at all cheaper?

[BuckoA51]

Why would use the frame meister for capture

I use mine to downscale 1080p from PC games into 720p for capture, works fine with the Startech card, but can't comment on more finicky capture solutions.

With AUTO it seems it tried to force it to display in 50hz I guess?

Sync mode is for video timing not frequency, the mini will always output at the refresh / resolution you choose under HDMI_OUTPUT or DVI_OUTPUT. What SCART switch are you using?

[ragimaz]

With AUTO it seems it tried to force it to display in 50hz I guess?

Sync mode is for video timing not frequency, the mini will always output at the refresh / resolution you choose under HDMI_OUTPUT or DVI_OUTPUT. What SCART switch are you using?

Oh, I see. I am using a HAMA AV Selector 100S as my SCART switch.

Before I ask Retro Gaming Cables to send me back the cable: Is there any disadvantage to get the one with sync stripper? Would I need it?
They have these two available:

European SCART to Framemeister XRGB Mini Converter - this is the one I bought first
European Scart to Framemeister XRGB Mini Converter with sync stripper

If there are no disadvantages, I would probably pay the difference and ask them to send me the other one.

[crmb]

Is this what I would give someone before telling them to take my money and make me whatever will make this work ok?

It's what I've built for others - PC to PVM, and Dreamcast RGBHV to SCART, ect...

I think we can put a perfboard into a Scart plug but any idea how to integrate it into a VGA -> mini-DIN cable ?

[HydrogLox]

I think we can put a perfboard into a Scart plug but any idea how to integrate it into a VGA -> mini-DIN cable ?

As in The Nexus: Projects - VGA to SCART Converter - Circuit

As the transistor based sync combiner doesn't require external power you might be able to find a bulky enough DE-15 connector where you can squeeze in the 1 transistor and 4 resistors - it all depends on the size of the components that you can get. But you would be basically soldering the components to one another and using heat-shrink tubing or electrical tape to keep any shorts from happening. Personally I would find it too finicky and risky and would just put it in a project box somewhere along the cable. Using the nexus example use a small project box, put a DE-15 socket on one side and have the cable coming out the other - then you have enough room for a perfboard.

If this un-powered solution has problems then have a look at these externally powered sync combiners:
GameSX: Dreamcast 480p/480i SCART Cable
VGA to TV converter

[Smashbro29]

I think we can put a perfboard into a Scart plug but any idea how to integrate it into a VGA -> mini-DIN cable ?

As in The Nexus: Projects - VGA to SCART Converter - Circuit

As the transistor based sync combiner doesn't require external power you might be able to find a bulky enough DE-15 connector where you can squeeze in the 1 transistor and 4 resistors - it all depends on the size of the components that you can get. But you would be basically soldering the components to one another and using heat-shrink tubing or electrical tape to keep any shorts from happening. Personally I would find it too finicky and risky and would just put it in a project box somewhere along the cable. Using the nexus example use a small project box, put a DE-15 socket on one side and have the cable coming out the other - then you have enough room for a perfboard.

If this un-powered solution has problems then have a look at these externally powered sync combiners:
GameSX: Dreamcast 480p/480i SCART Cable
VGA to TV converter

I don't want a 480p/480i box I want a box that can give me 720x480 (or is ti 640x480?) when its supported and when it simply CANNOT happen no matter what switch tricks you do I want it to go to 240p, down with 480i!

[HydrogLox]

I don't want a 480p/480i box I want a box that can give me 720x480 (or is ti 640x480?) when its supported and when it simply CANNOT happen no matter what switch tricks you do I want it to go to 240p, down with 480i!

The sync combiners on both pages act on the VGA (31kHz) sync signals which can only support progressive mode. I suspect that RGB (15kHz) could be interlaced just as a YPbPr component signal can be interlaced. But the sync combiner circuitry doesn't care whether the signal is progressive or interlaced. If the game only supports 480i - well, then you are out of luck and you'll have to accept whatever the XRGB-mini can do with it.

[Fudoh]

yeah, as HydrogLox just pointed out. 240p vs. 480i isn't your choice. It's the game's choice.

[Smashbro29]

yeah, as HydrogLox just pointed out. 240p vs. 480i isn't your choice. It's the game's choice.

So what you're saying is some games will display in 640x480 in "VGA mode" some will display in 240p and some will ONLY have the option to run in 480i? What a crapshoot.

I'm having trouble finding a list of that, it seems there's only lists that tell you what will work in VGA and what won't.

[NWrain]

Would something like the Extron Emotia downscale 480i, 480p, pass through 240P to eliminate cable switching?

[Fudoh]

no, the Emotia just downscales 480p to 240p. In a digital domain you cannot convert 480i to 240p.

The way to minimize cable switching is to use matrix switches. Multiple inputs with multiple outputs.

[Smashbro29]

no, the Emotia just downscales 480p to 240p. In a digital domain you cannot convert 480i to 240p.

The way to minimize cable switching is to use matrix switches. Multiple inputs with multiple outputs.

I thought we were way way way past this when I was told there was a box I could pay someone to make that'd switch games between VGA quality and 240p (depedning on the game of course) with a little switch on it. I just assumed if it was one of the 480i only games I'd use the 240p side and it would just output 480i instead.

Also, is there a list of which games will support 240p and which will support 480i?

[Fudoh]

I'm pretty sure that all games, which are supposed to be in 240p, are in 240p. Unlike the PS2 ports of the Garou and Last Blade, the DC versions are 240p. The only games running in 480i (without VGA support) are real hi-res titles, so there's really nothing to worry about. VGA is widely supported. The only titles from my library I can think of right now, which don't support VGA are Bangaioh and Last Blade (and possible Gunbird 2).

[RGB32E]

The only exception I've found on the Dreamcast is SF3:3S - the game can run at 240p, 480i, and 480p.

http://dreamcast.onlineconsoles.com/php ... php?t=8732

However, I don't think the DC can output 384 pixels wide like the CPS-3 HW, but that's a different topic.

[Smashbro29]

I'm pretty sure that all games, which are supposed to be in 240p, are in 240p. Unlike the PS2 ports of the Garou and Last Blade, the DC versions are 240p. The only games running in 480i (without VGA support) are real hi-res titles, so there's really nothing to worry about. VGA is widely supported. The only titles from my library I can think of right now, which don't support VGA are Bangaioh and Last Blade (and possible Gunbird 2).

So 99% of games will work with this all in one switchbox solution that connects via a SCART cable? Brilliant. and that other 1% (strictly 480i only) we'll just have to deal with slightly more input lag? I could deal with that. So what do I get made?

[Konsolkongen]

However, I don't think the DC can output 384 pixels wide like the CPS-3 HW, but that's a different topic.

It doesn't. That game looks crap no matter what output resolution you use. The same is true for Mars Matrix and Giga Wing, which unfortunately only supports 480i and VGA.

So 99% of games will work with this all in one switchbox solution that connects via a SCART cable? Brilliant. and that other 1% (strictly 480i only) we'll just have to deal with slightly more input lag? I could deal with that. So what do I get made?

It's a bit more than 1%. Especially if you play EU games. Not saying that it's bad at all. It always surprises me when a DC game won't run in VGA. Usually only the shitty titles (or EU version) won't allow this.

[Smashbro29]

However, I don't think the DC can output 384 pixels wide like the CPS-3 HW, but that's a different topic.

It doesn't. That game looks crap no matter what output resolution you use. The same is true for Mars Matrix and Giga Wing, which unfortunately only supports 480i and VGA.

So 99% of games will work with this all in one switchbox solution that connects via a SCART cable? Brilliant. and that other 1% (strictly 480i only) we'll just have to deal with slightly more input lag? I could deal with that. So what do I get made?

It's a bit more than 1%. Especially if you play EU games. Not saying that it's bad at all. It always surprises me when a DC game won't run in VGA. Usually only the shitty titles (or EU version) won't allow this.

But is there a list of games that will exclusively run in 480i? Will this magical amazing VGA/240p solution be able to revert to 480i if its the game's only display option?

[Konsolkongen]

If the game doesn't run in VGA it's either 480i or 240p. Rarely you have a choice between the two. SFIII is the only game I can think of, and 240p in that game is only available using a button command when booting the game.

There are several compatibility lists out there, but neither of them are complete.

http://www.epforums.org/showthread.php? ... ility-list
http://www.gamefaqs.com/dreamcast/91641 ... faqs/36035
http://www.sega-dc.de/dreamcast/Softwar ... %A4tsliste

[Smashbro29]

If the game doesn't run in VGA it's either 480i or 240p. Rarely you have a choice between the two. SFIII is the only game I can think of, and 240p in that game is only available using a button command when booting the game.

There are several compatibility lists out there, but neither of them are complete.

http://www.epforums.org/showthread.php? ... ility-list
http://www.gamefaqs.com/dreamcast/91641 ... faqs/36035
http://www.sega-dc.de/dreamcast/Softwar ... %A4tsliste

Ok, figure I have a switch built it switches between VGA quality and non-VGA quality (480i and 240p) and it all ends in one SCART cable. Is that what we've been discussing or will 480i only games simply not work?