XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Fudoh]

VGA to HDMI is lagfree, if you chose a converter which does not scale or process otherwise on it's own.

To run a DC through a Scart switch into the Mini, preserving the VGA signal, you need a custom cable. It has to include a sync combiner circuit to convert RGBHV to RGBs.

[Smashbro29]

VGA to HDMI is lagfree, if you chose a converter which does not scale or process otherwise on it's own.

To run a DC through a Scart switch into the Mini, preserving the VGA signal, you need a custom cable. It has to include a sync combiner circuit to convert RGBHV to RGBs.

Any recommendations on a model? Or maybe a way to buy this custom cable? I'm fine with either solution to be honest, although the HDMI one seems better because I'm not using the HDMI ports on the FM for anything else.

[Fudoh]

I have this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200876486729 and it works fine. The boot screen on the DC is screwed up but that's caused by the high voltage levels during white splash screens on the DC VGA box. Other than that, it works fine.

For the cable you have to contact a modder of your choice.

[Smashbro29]

I have this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200876486729 and it works fine. The boot screen on the DC is screwed up but that's caused by the high voltage levels during white splash screens on the DC VGA box. Other than that, it works fine.

For the cable you have to contact a modder of your choice.

And besides the boot up screen issue these things look the same and don't lag?

Also, where can I get a modder?

[marqs]

Marqs, have you tried 480i straight into the FS2333 HDMI input without upscaling or de-interlacing? The Eizo manual states that the HDMI input accepts 480i signals.

I'll try setting Mini output to 480p & 1080i next (I forgot to mention earlier that it was set to 1080p). There's no 480i output mode in Mini - if you meant measuring just FS2333's lag on 480i, I can't do that since my lag tester works only with analog sources.

Setting Mini's output to 480p didn't make any difference compared to 1080p which I used earlier.

With 1080i output I was able to test FS2333's deinterlacing. Based on the vertical screen shake, it seems to use simple bob. With 240p input, the lag was just 22.9ms - same as with progressive outputs. This indicates that FS2333 is doing bob without extra lag and that Mini has the same delay on interlaced outputs. With 480i input, the lag was 39.5ms so no difference there either.

[chadti99]

Anyone using the WiiU with the mini to upscale older Wii titles? Just wondering if I should set the output to 480P and allow the Mini to do the scaling and if it does a better job than the WiiU?

[Smashbro29]

Anyone using the WiiU with the mini to upscale older Wii titles? Just wondering if I should set the output to 480P and allow the Mini to do the scaling and if it does a better job than the WiiU?

Finally something I can answer!

You're better off just using the Wii with the Framemeister. The WiiU forces everything to 16:9 and a lot of stuff wasn't designed that way, not to mention there's no Gamecube controller slots on WiiU.

[chadti99]

Anyone using the WiiU with the mini to upscale older Wii titles? Just wondering if I should set the output to 480P and allow the Mini to do the scaling and if it does a better job than the WiiU?

Finally something I can answer!

You're better off just using the Wii with the Framemeister. The WiiU forces everything to 16:9 and a lot of stuff wasn't designed that way, not to mention there's no Gamecube controller slots on WiiU.

I can understand the 16:9 thing but for games that were deigned to run in 16:9 are the images softened or why do you prefer using the Wii instead? Have you tried 480P to the Mini? I'm wanting to play Metroid Trilogy Specifically.

[NWrain]

Thank you marqs. I have been wondering about that monitor for a while.

[Smashbro29]

Anyone using the WiiU with the mini to upscale older Wii titles? Just wondering if I should set the output to 480P and allow the Mini to do the scaling and if it does a better job than the WiiU?

Finally something I can answer!

You're better off just using the Wii with the Framemeister. The WiiU forces everything to 16:9 and a lot of stuff wasn't designed that way, not to mention there's no Gamecube controller slots on WiiU.

I can understand the 16:9 thing but for games that were deigned to run in 16:9 are the images softened or why do you prefer using the Wii instead? Have you tried 480P to the Mini? I'm wanting to play Metroid Trilogy Specifically.

From what I read the Mini makes Wii look amazing here's some video I took of the WiiU upscaling Brawl on WiiU:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3UCvk8g ... 4&index=17
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-X_-8TX ... 4&index=18

It looks much better than you'd expect but it looks kinda off to me.

[Fudoh]

It looks much better than you'd expect but it looks kinda off to me.

yep, chroma delay all over the place.

[NWrain]

When I use the Wii U to upscale Metal Slug Anthologies to HD resolutions, I get a strange vertical tear effect.

[HydrogLox]

How do I plug in a Dreamcast? It has No VGA port.

but it accepts VGA through the front RGB port using a special cable.

To run a DC through a Scart switch into the Mini, preserving the VGA signal, you need a custom cable. It has to include a sync combiner circuit to convert RGBHV to RGBs.

Whoa! - there IS a clean way to get a Sega Dreamcast DC VGA signal (480p/31.5 kHz) into the XRGB-mini Framemeister?
I didn't need to waste my money on a "Lenkeng LKV2300 VGA to Component Video Converter" (which seems to saturate some colors) and a "Audio Authority 9A60A VGA to Component Video Transcoder"?
This sounds tempting enough to mod a 3rd party DC VGA Box just for the XRGB-mini with a Mini-Din 8 (or euro-scart) cable and making it RGB/VGA switchable.
Do have any pointers to additional information about this solution (or parts thereof) or does it currently only exist as a eureka moment in your mind that you are keeping to yourself?

[HydrogLox]

I'm not 100% what I'm looking for really...

http://www.retrogamingcables.com/europe ... -sale.html

For 240p (RGB/15 kHz) consoles I use this (Retro Console Accessories ships from Florida):
Micomsoft XRGB Mini Sync booster for Euro SCART to XRGB Mini 8 pin

With my NTSC-J PSOne I then use:
Sony Playstation 1, 2, 3 stereo RGB SCART lead cable cord

With a PS2 you can use the component connection - but that may not look the same for PS1 titles as RGB out of a PS1/PSOne (not sure about RGB out of a PS2).

With my NTSC-J Sega Saturn I use:
Sega Saturn stereo RGB SCART cable for NTSC model Saturn lead cord

This one is more useful if you are using the XRGB-mini with a speaker-less DVI (HDMI) monitor:
Sega Saturn RGB SCART cable RCA out for NTSC model Saturn lead cord

The J-Scart to Mini DIN 8 cable that comes with the XRGB-mini Framemeister isn't all that useful.

[Fudoh]

Do have any pointers to additional information about this solution (or parts thereof) or does it currently only exist as a eureka moment in your mind that you are keeping to yourself?

has been posted in this thread before. It's a very simply sync combiner circuit.
If you don't want to built a custom cable or can't find anyone to do it, you can use a RGB interface ($30) to simply convert from RGBHV to RGBs, but it's an additional piece of equipment and certainly not neccessary.

[Smashbro29]

For 240p (RGB/15 kHz) consoles I use this (Retro Console Accessories ships from Florida):
Micomsoft XRGB Mini Sync booster for Euro SCART to XRGB Mini 8 pin

Awesome. Now I got options. [quote]Fo ... ccessories ships from Florida):
Micomsoft XRGB Mini Sync booster for Euro SCART to XRGB Mini 8 pin

With my NTSC-J PSOne I then use:
Sony Playstation 1, 2, 3 stereo RGB SCART lead cable cord

With a PS2 you can use the component connection - but that may not look the same for PS1 titles as RGB out of a PS1/PSOne (not sure about RGB out of a PS2).

With my NTSC-J Sega Saturn I use:
Sega Saturn stereo RGB SCART cable for NTSC model Saturn lead cord

This one is more useful if you are using the XRGB-mini with a speaker-less DVI (HDMI) monitor:
Sega Saturn RGB SCART cable RCA out for NTSC model Saturn lead cord

The J-Scart to Mini DIN 8 cable that comes with the XRGB-mini Framemeister isn't all that useful.[/quote]

I use SCART cables from the same place, awesome ebay store right?

I'm using component for PS2 because I don't have a PS1 (yet) I might pick one up when the price is right and it's one of the early ones with an expansion slot so I can buy that add-on and back up every game ever made.

Do have any pointers to additional information about this solution (or parts thereof) or does it currently only exist as a eureka moment in your mind that you are keeping to yourself?

has been posted in this thread before. It's a very simply sync combiner circuit.
If you don't want to built a custom cable or can't find anyone to do it, you can use a RGB interface ($30) to simply convert from RGBHV to RGBs, but it's an additional piece of equipment and certainly not neccessary.

We must go back and find the schematics so I can beg someone who knows what they're doing to build it for me!

Also having a hell of a time finding more SCART switches. I can't find any of the models that were deemed good by: http://www.videogameperfection.com/av-g ... h-roundup/

[Zombisaurus]

Still loving my Framemeister! I was excited to see what the WiiU would do for old Wii games, and while it definitely improves them (mostly due to simply better/cleaner video output), the Framemeister still comes out on top.

Back to SNES...

I recently reset all my settings. Is there a good setup for SNES games? I believe I am just using smartx2 and standard mode, with no other adjustments. Looks great, but can it look better/more correct to original intentions with other Framemeister settings? (Using RBG with a 1chip SNES)

[Konsolkongen]

Smart_X2? So you're using 1080p output?

Change that to 720p, use Normal2 and enable scanlines and you have a winner.

[Zombisaurus]

Smart_X2? So you're using 1080p output?

Change that to 720p, use Normal2 and enable scanlines and you have a winner.

Thanks! Yes, I'm using 1080p right now, and scan lines do look bad (as I knew they would)

I'm on the newest firmware, so I should just use Standard and then enable scan lines in the options, correct? I don't have to use Meister mode?

Wouldn't 720p to a 1080p TV introduce some lag? Or is it not enough to matter?

Normal2 has the "correct" aspect ratio?

(Sorry for all the questions, just want to see what you all are thinking.

[Fudoh]

You use 720p output, use PICTURE processing mode, set the H-SCALER to 5, set SHARPNESS to 0, enable scanlines, adjust scanline density to your liking.

I can't imagine that your TVs has more lag in 720p mode compared to a 1080p native feed.

On the SNES standard vs. normal2 ratio doesn't make a big difference. If you get "shaky" pixels with one setting, use the other or adjust the SKEW setting until it's gone.

[RGB32E]

If you get "shaky" pixels with one setting, use the other or adjust the SKEW setting until it's gone.

Do you have any consoles where you actually have to use the SKEW setting? Also, not sure if I mentioned it in this thread but the SYNC setting seems to negate any need for a sync separator or "booster" circuit.

I have a fully wired Dreamcast lead (all wires connected) and am curious to see if CSYNC actually outputs at 480p/VGA. None of the VGA boxes I've dealt with wire the CSYNC pin, but all other connections are!

[BuckoA51]

I did some re-tests on the Hama SCART switch (the rotary one) and there was some loss of brightness but I didn't notice any ghosting or loss of sharpness. http://www.videogameperfection.com/av-g ... h-gallery/

Maybe on the closeup there's some...?, with the change in brightness its tough to call, at least to my eyes.

[RGB32E]

I did some re-tests on the Hama SCART switch (the rotary one) and there was some loss of brightness but I didn't notice any ghosting or loss of sharpness. http://www.videogameperfection.com/av-g ... h-gallery/

Maybe on the closeup there's some...?, with the change in brightness its tough to call, at least to my eyes.

Cool comparison. It looks like the red channel gets bumped down 5 "notches", green 2, and blue 3, and sharpness 4. (Color balance skews teal, darker and softer).

Have you tried any of the newer Extron VGA or BNC switchers? It would require some re-cabling or adapters, but worth a try?

[BuckoA51]

The other switches I compared today fared better, I wonder if the cable I was using was no good. I've not tried an Extron switch no, Konsolkongen says they soften the image ever so slightly.

[RGB32E]

It could have been a bad cable? I wonder what Konsolkongen tried. I have several different switches from Extron, but I don't use any of them! I've terminated all of my RGB cables that do not require caps in the cable with 8 pin mini din for direct connection to the XRGB-mini.

[Smashbro29]

I did some re-tests on the Hama SCART switch (the rotary one) and there was some loss of brightness but I didn't notice any ghosting or loss of sharpness. http://www.videogameperfection.com/av-g ... h-gallery/

Maybe on the closeup there's some...?, with the change in brightness its tough to call, at least to my eyes.

Cool comparison. It looks like the red channel gets bumped down 5 "notches", green 2, and blue 3, and sharpness 4. (Color balance skews teal, darker and softer).

Have you tried any of the newer Extron VGA or BNC switchers? It would require some re-cabling or adapters, but worth a try?

I would just love to find like 3 more Madcatz ones and call it a day, they don't do a damn thing, they just let it pass through, brilliantly simple.

[Zombisaurus]

You use 720p output, use PICTURE processing mode, set the H-SCALER to 5, set SHARPNESS to 0, enable scanlines, adjust scanline density to your liking.

I can't imagine that your TVs has more lag in 720p mode compared to a 1080p native feed.

On the SNES standard vs. normal2 ratio doesn't make a big difference. If you get "shaky" pixels with one setting, use the other or adjust the SKEW setting until it's gone.

Thanks!

Interesting to choose Picture mode. Does that just provide a better image because its not trying to deinterlace the already 240p SNES image?

[Fudoh]

Interesting to choose Picture mode. Does that just provide a better image because its not trying to deinterlace the already 240p SNES image?

it does provide a sharper and more detailed picture as it has a less aggressive low pass filter.

Do you have any consoles where you actually have to use the SKEW setting?

I certainly don't HAVE to adjust the skew setting, since the tremble is minimal, but I can see it, for example with a MD/GEN as a source and with true 4:3 aspect ratio in use. If I switch to the wider AR, the tremble's gone.

[marqs]

I did some re-tests on the Hama SCART switch (the rotary one) and there was some loss of brightness but I didn't notice any ghosting or loss of sharpness. http://www.videogameperfection.com/av-g ... h-gallery/

Maybe on the closeup there's some...?, with the change in brightness its tough to call, at least to my eyes.

Those screenshots remind me of a 10m RGB cable I built years ago from a pair of crappy s-video cables - how long is your cable between the switch and capture card and is it thin or thick (RGB coaxes likely)? Since the signal wires act as transmission lines, every connection and inproper cable more or less degrades the signal - ideally the RGB lines would run from end to end in coaxes of 75ohm characteristic impedance. I think the connector quality (dunno if gold-plating really helps) and PCB design cause the differences between scart switches, assuming that they actually switch all RGBs lines. I've seen some which only switch video/sync and audio lines, combining RGB and voltage (!) lines from all inputs.

[Konsolkongen]

It could have been a bad cable? I wonder what Konsolkongen tried. I have several different switches from Extron, but I don't use any of them! I've terminated all of my RGB cables that do not require caps in the cable with 8 pin mini din for direct connection to the XRGB-mini.

I use mostly custom build cables with parts taken from expensive Tech+Link RGB cables. I chopped some VGA to BNC cables to pieces and only used the BNC ends which I hooked up to a female SCART socket for the console cables to connect to.
I honestly can't remember if I compared sharpness on other consoles than the Saturn, which has the best RGB picture of my connected systems, but I use an original SEGA cable for that one. So maybe it would help if i build a custom cable for that one as well, but I can't seem to find the 10 mini din plugs anywhere

If I remember correctly the Dreamcast has an even better RGB picture than the Saturn. But I only have the original cables for that one as well I can try that once I receive this one I just bought:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Extron-Crosspoin ... 3ccdb2e84c

I'm gonna daisy chain it up with my 8 input/4 output Extron and I'll never need another switch again.