13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

[Bananamatic]

eschatos is shit

[Despatche]

Dude I have logs of you moaning about how people call games you like garbage and here you are calling something other people like garbage.

It's really incredible how much you insist on lying. I really did spend hours trying so hard to talk about things that weren't video games, and you're just completely ignoring all of that again.

Take your own advice man, stop worrying about what other people like.

What are you even talking about? Seriously, what are you even talking about anymore? This right here is slander to me because of just how much of a giant lie it is.

I'm so sick of people like you constantly and consistently lying about every single word I say right to my face. I'm so sick of people like you constantly asking for an explanation and completely ignoring it when you get it.

I don't like Musha much either but you are one hypocritical dude.

Do you really not understand how amazingly dissonant it is for you to be saying this sentence?

I'm not entertaining you anymore. I'm not wasting more hours of my life dealing with people like you anymore.

[Squire Grooktook]

Yes, like the fucking gameplay.

This shit right here is how I know that people don't really like playing video games. It's really fucking incredible just how much people despise this genre.

Atmosphere and fantasy are part of why people play games too. There's nothing wrong with liking a game because you like joining in or exploring the world it creates. It's something you couldn't do in any other medium, and poor gameplay or not, it's something you can only do by playing the game itself.

PSO might play like shit (to me at least), but damn if that exotic, isolated wilderness isn't irresistible. Intolerable as the mechanics were for me, I can't say I didn't enjoy it.

[Shepardus]

God forbid someone enjoy a game for something other then its bare mechanics and allow that to enhance one's experience with and opinion of a game.

[d0s]

Dude I have logs of you moaning about how people call games you like garbage and here you are calling something other people like garbage.

It's really incredible how much you insist on lying. I really did spend hours trying so hard to talk about things that weren't video games, and you're just completely ignoring all of that again.

Take your own advice man, stop worrying about what other people like.

What are you even talking about? Seriously, what are you even talking about anymore? This right here is slander to me because of just how much of a giant lie it is.

I'm so sick of people like you constantly and consistently lying about every single word I say right to my face. I'm so sick of people like you constantly asking for an explanation and completely ignoring it when you get it.

I don't like Musha much either but you are one hypocritical dude.

Do you really not understand how amazingly dissonant it is for you to be saying this sentence?

I'm not entertaining you anymore. I'm not wasting more hours of my life dealing with people like you anymore.

you are mentally ill

[Xyga]

you are mentally ill

yup dude's got issues

[Despatche]

The defense for Musha implies that there's an OK game in there that is greatly enhanced by the aesthetics.

I want to enjoy the aesthetics, but I can't because there's nothing for them to enhance. There literally is no game in Musha to play.

[Squire Grooktook]

there's stuff for you to move around and shoot. A few bullets get shot at you in the second half. It's not all bad

[cave hermit]

I'm not trying to point fingers here (that's probably not the right idiom, but you guys know what I mean :p ), but what would you actually define as a "game" exactly?

[Xyga]

I'm not trying to point fingers here, but what would you actually define as a "game" exactly?

Hermit you fool ! don't ever ask that question here !

[Despatche]

yup dude's got issues

You're just mad because I called you out for your bullshit. I even support you sometimes, because you're right then, but usually you're part of the reason why people give up on this genre. I refuse to support the kind of bad thinking that has lead this genre into a dark age.

I'm not trying to point fingers here (that's probably not the right idiom, but you guys know what I mean :p ), but what would you actually define as a "game" exactly?

Please don't. Please.

[Despatche]

Too many people think "enjoyment" opposes "achievement". Every competitive game is called out for this.

They are actually closely related to the point of being two halves of a whole. The truth of gaming is a perfect harmony of these two things.

Many games understand that harmony. Don't support the ones that don't. However, study them just as much as you'd study the ones that do, because they are mistakes to be learned from.

[Squire Grooktook]

People can enjoy a game and not care about achievements.

People can enjoy a game and care about achievements.

People can do whatever they want with entertainment, and be happy with it. And that is completely fine. There is no right and wrong in the realm of entertainment, only preference.

I enjoy a game for whatever in it makes me happy. That may vary drastically from game to game and from genre to genre, and I wouldn't let any "game theory" tell me what I should or shouldn't enjoy.

[Xyga]

You're just mad because I called you out for your bullshit. I even support you sometimes, because you're right then, but usually you're part of the reason why people give up on this genre. I refuse to support the kind of bad thinking that has lead this genre into a dark age.

No I'm not mad, I think you really have an issue going bat shit over what other people think of games and what they like.

Why the fuck do you care ?

You need to join IcyCalm in his randian asylum, you'll have fun together.

[Despatche]

I was wondering when one of you would actually compare me to icycalm; I haven't even gotten that as a joke. You really are that angry.

The kind of thinking I see here has caused legitimate problems: games and important information about them is forgotten, good people are turned bad, communities are destroyed. I'm not just going to allow that.

I enjoy a game for whatever in it makes me happy. That may vary drastically from game to game and from genre to genre, and I wouldn't let any "game theory" tell me what I should or shouldn't enjoy.

You are wasting so much time, yet you are not using it to rest and relax. You believe that work and study is inherently a bad thing to be avoided because you're so used to having to work for and study things that you don't care about. This poisons your understanding of so much, but all we get to talk about here are video games.

edit: You were pretty angry in that topic, and you insist on calling me mentally ill because I say things you don't like. Yes, you really are that angry.

[Xyga]

But I'm not angry ! God you're insane this is hillarious.

[Squire Grooktook]

You believe that work and study is inherently a bad thing to be avoided because you're so used to having to work for and study things that you don't care about.

No I don't. There are lots of things I study for fun. And there are lots of things I work on purely for fun (game development, for one).

There are also games I do play for achievement. And some I don't. It depends.

I don't see a problem.

[Despatche]

You were specifically told that those things were fun to study. You have been specifically shown that there is a side of gaming where you don't have to think about anything, and you accept this even as it hurts you and everything around you.

[Squire Grooktook]

You are wasting so much time, yet you are not using it to rest and relax.

Actually, I do find some such games to be very relaxing, and I find it gives me quite a bit of energy back to do more strenuous and demanding activities. Sometimes working, and studying, and playing games with no achievements, and playing games with achievements, can get me very excited. Other times, it calms me and helps me sleep or relax.

Funny, how few absolutes there are.

You were specifically told that those things were fun to study. You have been specifically shown that there is a side of gaming where you don't have to think about anything, and you accept this even as it hurts you and everything around you.

No, I've been homeschooled since childhood, and my parents never mentioned those things which I enjoy studying to me. I discovered them on my own, because I have a natural inclination towards them. Some of them I even disliked at first, or wasn't good at, or both, but decided to put more effort into them to see if (maybe) that would change, and it did in some cases.

I discovered them before getting access to the internet too.

If by shown, you mean playing a game with no achievement and enjoying it, I suppose so. The developers themselves showed me a world that tickled my imagination, and so I enjoyed it. I'm not sure who it harms, especially considering I embrace games that are completely on the opposite side of the spectrum as well, so if anything I'm helping everyone by supporting every type of experience. I simply like a vast majority of games with vastly different "experience goals". I try to keep an open mind and not limit myself to any one particular style of play.

[Shepardus]

Yeah, because rest and relaxation is the only reason besides "achievement" that someone would ever want to do something... Think about all the horror movies, roller-coasters, etc. people enjoy; they don't get achievement from that, nor would I call such a thing relaxing.

[BIL]

Patchy-kun is now possessed by a fury that burns from inside

Any of you godless sodomites up for the G.SDF next year? I'll expect ALLs beforehand.

[Despatche]

The heart of all of this is that you have a very limited definition of achievement and competition that must include hate and ceaseless fighting. Professional sports figured out the trick to avoiding this a long time ago, and certain areas of gaming take up a few specific principles. It's not enough... and unfortunately, sports is being brought down by other problems which must be avoided...

No, I've been homeschooled since childhood, and my parents never mentioned those things which I enjoy studying to me. I discovered them on my own, because I have a natural inclination towards them.

See? You can only think of institutions. You don't notice all the little ways you allow yourself to be influenced by people who might as well be rambling. These people influence how you see anyone else, and anyone else appears to be rambling instead. I don't mean to invoke what has become a dangerous meme, but you truly aren't discerning.

I try to keep an open mind and not limit myself to any one particular style of play.

This isn't an open mind at all. You're not "playing" much at this point; you really are just wasting your time.

The sad thing is that you actually do the right thing, but for very wrong reasons. Doing the right thing for wrong reasons has always lead to great failures in the end. I can't let that stand.

You are making a simple thing complicated; you likely make complicated things simple. Here is a massive point of failure.

[Squire Grooktook]

Patchy-kun is now possessed by a fury that burns from inside

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpIVTbGK9bI

[d0s]

The heart of all of this is that you have a very limited definition of achievement and competition that must include hate and ceaseless fighting. Professional sports figured out the trick to avoiding this a long time ago, and certain areas of gaming take up a few specific principles. It's not enough... and unfortunately, sports is being brought down by other problems which must be avoided...

No, I've been homeschooled since childhood, and my parents never mentioned those things which I enjoy studying to me. I discovered them on my own, because I have a natural inclination towards them.

See? You can only think of institutions. You don't notice all the little ways you allow yourself to be influenced by people who might as well be rambling.

I try to keep an open mind and not limit myself to any one particular style of play.

This isn't an open mind at all. You're not "playing" much at this point; you really are just wasting your time.

The sad thing is that you actually do the right thing, but for very wrong reasons. Doing the right thing for wrong reasons has always lead to great failures in the end. I can't let that stand.

You are making a simple thing complicated; you likely make complicated things simple. Here is a massive point of failure.

there is something wrong with your brain

[Squire Grooktook]

The heart of all of this is that you have a very limited definition of achievement and competition that must include hate and ceaseless fighting.

Assumption, and wrong. I know achievement can be wonderful, beautiful, persona, inteprsonal, all of the above, none of the above, etc.

See? You can only think of institutions. You don't notice all the little ways you allow yourself to be influenced by people who might as well be rambling

No, I thought of that too. I could list things that people have said or told me to believe, which I have disagreed with. Or the more subtle influences in life. But it's not worth it. One could debate about nature vs nurture, influence vs dna, determinism vs free will, etc. but let's just leave it that I disagree with your little "philosophy" on some very fundamental levels.

This isn't an open mind at all. You're not "playing" much at this point; you really are just wasting your time.

Ah, but my favorite thing is when my heart starts pounding or when I have a sense of being part of a magical world. I get this quite often from games with achievement, and games without achievement. In both times, I deeply enjoy it. If my time is being wasted thus, I think I enjoy wasting time.

Funny, it's almost as if "wasting time" is subjective in the realm of entertainment. Nah, couldn't be.

[Eaglet]

Not trying to be a wannabe mod here but

please

STFU and continue this bullshit elsewhere.


Why must every big thread turn to shit...?

[Despatche]

This thread got a lot better and far more kinder than whatever it was supposed to be. Please don't keep the old topic going.

If my time is being wasted thus, I think I enjoy wasting time.

You actually have a pretty good mindset about this, but something still seems wrong. It seems that you are limiting yourself in really strange and specific ways. If your definition of achievement is so vast, why do you narrow it so thoroughly?

[d0s]

no man just stop liking that thing you like. despatche, the arbiter of what's fun and what isn't, has declared that thing you like to be garbage and your reasons for liking it garbage as well. he's clearly the happiest, most mentally healthy person here, look at how much fun he always seems to be having. life of the party

[Squire Grooktook]

If your definition of achievement is so vast, why do you narrow it so thoroughly?

Because I'm not narrowing it. Some games I enjoy the achievements, some games I don't. Some games I enjoy even though they don't have achievements, but have other things of interest. It depends on the fine elements of the mechanics, what the game has to offer, how it plays, and a billion other elements of pure subjective preference.

[Shepardus]

How is Squire the one narrowing things when it's Despatche claiming that it's an objective "lie" to enjoy Musha?