GD: DOJ system and strat

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:24 pm

you will never be free!

TLB · Post by **TLB** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:46 pm

jpj wrote:you will never be free! >:D

This.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:52 pm

m3tall1ca wrote:
jpj wrote:you will never be free! >:D
This.

SOMEONE SAVE ME

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:13 pm

I disagree ! This is mostly a waste of time and I should get rid of it but there's the addiction ! >.<

I wish I was as addicted to Starcraft. Or to mathematics, lol ~

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:16 pm

yeah, that makes sense on the bomb bonus. i wonder if it works the other way around too? ie i sometimes bomb the end of 1-1 to make sure i get the x2 bee with an 800 chain. i always thought this was bad though, and i would be accumulating less points. y'know, i've been playing this game long enough, i really should learn how to do stage 1 boss in a normal way and do a good chain in stage 2

i just like my ghetto chains

which type B replay are you referring to pro? honestly, that midboss is gonna give me gray hair

and how are you doing with 1-4 chain..? i want to try and learn the diagonal platforms now. how high have you gotten the chain before the 1up turret??

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:29 pm

Oh if you bomb before getting the bomb bonus though, you will get x1 instead of x2 like in DDP (haven't checked but it's quite definitely working the same). So you're wasting points, but that only matters in second loop cause MAX is so weak in DOJ's first loop.

I've given up trying to connect after the cannon in 1-4 for now, even pros seem to fail all the time and I reckon there is a luck factor (need the large shells to fall at the right places and it's random). My chain there, starting the stage with 1 hyper, gets to 1200hits I think. Gets me approximately 60M. The diagonal platforms are doable but you NEED the hypers to fall "exactly" at the right time, which is no problem if you hyper the stage 3 boss at the right time to get the meter like you want (you can allow a margin of error of approx 15% in Hyper Meter).

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:32 pm

sorry, i know i keep pestering you, but you *really* need to see HFD on the BL dvd

he chains the whole diagonal platform section with no hypers..!!

p.s. my avatar is still scarier than yours ^^

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:34 pm

But yours is a videogame nerd and mine is an invisible one-shot killer -_-

Well this HFD guy is a weirdo, I think his video must be very valuable when you want to learn "plan Bs" or use hypers in different places than in the videos for some reason.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:41 pm

man, it's not even worth watching til 0.3%

why not just buy a copy.....

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:43 pm

nah too expensive I'll do without

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:53 pm

it is now, yeah

for type B, he might use one hyper there, i can't remember. i'll watch it again later

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:19 pm

see jpj I think you were wrong about the Max bonus not being important in this game. If you watch any superplay video closely, you'll notice the score counter starts increasing by 1M every 2 seconds in 2-1. That's a "x6 Lvl 4" maximum bonus in second loop. Then it just increases as you pick bombs up. Second loop is 25 minutes, 15 of which approximately are "maximum bonus enabled". That's 60*15 = 900 seconds. 450M if we don't count the increasing value of the bonus. Probably over 600M if we do ? So that's where all the additionnal points come from in 2nd loop. Like in DDP.

Which leads me to the following conclusion : DOJ too sucks.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:35 pm

Oh. Then there'd be a hidden reason why white label is actually superior.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:36 pm

well, not important for the first half..

also bear in mind that your score doesn't increase during bosses for that 25 minutes, or the hibachi fight. if you assume 600 mill, and (for example) LAOS makes about 1.1 bill on the 2nd loop, you're saying he only made chains for 500 mill..!? without watching the dvd again, i think maybe more like 200-300 mill for 2nd loop max bombs. ie 800 mill for first loop (chains + max bombs) + 1.1 bill for the 2nd loop (chains + max bombs).

anyways - how do the extends work for the 2nd loop? i was playing BL after lunch, and got to 2-2. even chained most of 2-1, which is a surprise, because i haven't even practiced it yet

i entered the 2nd loop on my last life, no-missed 2-1, and got an extend after the boss. now, i used to think you couldn't earn extends in BL, but clearly you can. but i'm confused now as to if there are any conditions.. in most BL superplays, if a player clears loop 1 without losing a life (ie 4 spare ships at the top), after no-missing 2-1, they still have 4 ships at the top. but the maximum is five, if you see them no-miss up to the 1up turret in 2-4. so... do you need to be on your last life? have spare ships less than 4? no-miss the stage?

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:47 pm

jpj wrote:well, not important for the first half.. :wink:

also bear in mind that your score doesn't increase during bosses for that 25 minutes, or the hibachi fight. if you assume 600 mill, and (for example) LAOS makes about 1.1 bill on the 2nd loop, you're saying he only made chains for 500 mill..!? without watching the dvd again, i think maybe more like 200-300 mill for 2nd loop max bombs. ie 800 mill for first loop (chains + max bombs) + 1.1 bill for the 2nd loop (chains + max bombs).

Well I don't know which video is LAOS' but the white label video I have breaks chains in 2-3 and 2-4, so yeah I wouldn't be surprised if he chained for around 500M (although the bees are still worth quite a lot more... so I dunno).

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:50 pm

best bet would be seeing if there is detailed info in BL booklet (aka pester plasmo

)

(i tried sending you a pm earlier but your inbox must be full

)

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:56 pm

The PS2 DVD player inputs his name as ARK. I thought he fully chained 2-4 in that vid?

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:01 pm

ARK is for Arika...

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:03 pm

jpj wrote:ARK is for Arika...

Who was it that did it then? TAC?

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:05 pm

TAC did the B-L run on the game disc (he sucks at this game

), and i'm fairly sure it was LAOS who did the A-E dvd. NAL is also credited as well, but LAOS's name appears above theirs, so it's an educated guess

same dude has a 29 mill on batrider, and a 900k on super puzzle fighter. cock muncher

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:12 pm

jpj wrote:TAC did the B-L run on the game disc (he sucks at this game )

Damn right, dude should stick to esprade and leave DOJ for us real men

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:17 pm

one bill...? his parents probably disowned him

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:50 pm

just watched white and black label dvds. chaining with max bombs in 2-1 is more like 1 mill every 3-4 seconds. chaining and max bombs in 2-5 more like 1 mill every 0.8 seconds (or every 1-2 seconds for white label - but this could be because of the difference in chaining between the players). didn't see any chain breaks in 2-3 or 2-4, but i was fast forwarding most of it. best place to look is right at the end of 2-5, after destroying the bomb carrier, and see what speed the points go up while no enemies on screen for a few seconds before hibachi. max bomb x10 on it's own. i estimate about 1 mill every 3 seconds. hope this helps

and i was wrong before, NAL is listed at the top, so it's presumably KTL-NAL who does the A-E run of 1.89 bill

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:01 pm

looks like 1 mill per second on BL for x10. is the A-E white label run a no-miss no-bomb to the 2-5 boss? if so, BL seems to be more generous on max bomb bonus. also 2-1 through to 2-5 is twenty minutes. take out boss times, and i do genuinely think 200-300 mill for all max bombs is about correct

it's not something i would be too concerned with unless you're attacking a WR i think

also, my question about extends in the 2nd loop for BL, i meant you end loop 1 with a max of five spare ships, but can have 6 if you no-miss to the 1up turret

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:30 pm

jpj, it's Augusta, not Augustus.

I only say this to help us all pay proper respect to William, our Lord and Savior, Master of us all.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:36 pm

thank you

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:10 pm

PROMETHEUS wrote:
henry dark wrote:I'm trying to get back into this but its a massive chore- how do you stomach the constant need to start and restart start and restart the first level again and again and again?

Its amazing that you guys are talking about learning 1-4 and 1-5 etc., after 30 minutes of redoing stage 1 I was ready to throw the thing out of the window.
I think doing the chains in those games requires some skills that you need to develop before being able to do them consistently. You can develop those skills while trying to chain, but then you're going to spend weeks on just the first stage indeed. Just a question of endurance. I spent about 50 hours just learning the stage 2 chain in DoDonPachi. A couple of years later I learned the 2-5 chain in less than 10 hours.

no fucking joke man

i just learnt the diagonal platforms in an hour

and that whole thing about pachi games being frustrating because you need to be so precise with your timing..? yeah, i'm feelin' that

(actually i think it's more like muscle memory. like guile's sonic boom in street fighter 2. you're told to hold back for two seconds, but you never count it in your head, you can just *feel* the timing

and this is knowing or feeling exactly how much time you have from connecting one hit to the next, both with and without hypers)

i'm really happy i know how to do this now...

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:56 pm

... sonic BOOM !

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:40 am

okay pro, how do we chain this 1up turret then...!?

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:12 am

Well see the superplay video! You have to let about 5 tanks live before you come up the screen to hit the turret, move to the left then down, hit a tank, slowly kill them so as to start hitting the main turret as late as possible, and then use the shells falling down the screen to keep your laser off the main turret for a second or two, again in order to kill it as slowly as possible. A little before the main part dies, hyper, kill 2 shells, move to the right, tap the laser killing the secondary part to the right, when it's destroyed connect to the main part (if you're lucky maybe u can kill a shell before doing so), and tap the laser again, killing it. If you are lucky you will Almost Make It ^^

with A-E in white label he does it a little differently : by using his hyper a little later. To be honest in this one video the guy doesn't seem to have much trouble doing it, he connects to the metal door behind way before his chain breaks. If we were just going for a 1-loop score, it would be nice to learn this and then make runs until we get a "perfect" 1st loop. Otherwise we shouldn't expect to do it consistently I guess, cause pros do seem to fail a lot there.