Too close for comfort? the revival?

[Sumez]

I know plenty of "dudebros", and I actually don't know anyone pirating X360 games. And basically everyone here pirates games (it's terrible, really), and don't think twice about it. They are pretty open about it as well, as if it were the only way to acquire games.

[z0mbie90]

But there's a small diffrence also on pirating the newest Call of Duty for $48.88 brand new or if you want to test Radiant Silvergun before you hand out $210.00 on the game used.

I always buy games that I play regular and that I like. Much more fun to have a nice copy of the game on display than have a folder on your computer.

[Bee Cool]

Exactly, you're not hurting anyone by playing Batsugun Special Version. In the future, emulation is going to be the only way for people to play these games unless people decide to reprint or put them up for digital distribution. But I whole heartedly agree that pirating games that are still being sold by the developers causes problems.

[mjclark]

Hmmm.... so what if someone pirates a game that is still currently available but which that person would never have bought anyway? There's no loss of revenue there but very good publicity for the game
Example:"Mr M" plays an Illvelo Wii rom on his PC using a Wii emulator although he does not own the original game.
"Mr M" lives in Europe and would never as long as he lives ever ever buy an NTSC-J Nintendo Wii console and consequently would also never ever ever ever buy Milestone Shooting Collection 2 (region locked) for that platform so there is no loss of revenue since the purchase would never have been made.
Or what if the game is available in "Mr M"'s region but he had decided not to buy it due to it's high price/
When he pirates the game there is still no loss of revenue to the publisher since the game would still never have been purchased. You may say: "If that poor Mr M can't afford it then he shouldn't have it" but that is a moral argument affecting his conscience not an economic argument which would affect the developers and publishers
It is the publisher's decision to region lock or overprice which causes them the loss of revenue and "Mr M"'s decision to hoist the skull and crossbones and set sail into the sea of roms not only gives them good publicity ("Wow- what a great game. I'll recommend it to everyone and buy all their PAL releases") but also might encourage them to make region free or cheaper future releases to attract "Mr M"'s custom.
Thus piracy both educates and entertains

[Sumez]

oldest argument on the internet, don't go there

[mjclark]

oldest argument on the internet, don't go there

What's old is all this moralising bullshit actually. It gets trotted out everytime there's an emulation discussion.
Does anyone on this forum give a fuck about anybody's else's opinion on piracy?
I think we're more interested in playing Daifukkatsu and discussing it's mechanics than listening to a gang of perpetual virgins nerdraging that someone's got something they didn't pay for.
I believe murder and supplying Class A narcotics are also illegal yet weirdly they also seem to continue happening...and I doubt someone posting on a forum that it's wrong is going to discourage them.

[Sumez]

Again, you're the one discussing it.

I couldn't disagree more with what you said a few posts up, but I'm not gonna take that discussion with you or anyone else.

[z0mbie90]

I actually agree with mjclark a bit. All people don't have money to import a console and games. But if the games gets released where "Mr M" lives I think he should stop play the rom and buy the game if he likes it. He then support the scene and the company.

Piracy is both bad and good. It helps people that don't have afford all the games to test them. But I still think if you like a game and you have the money to buy it, then you should buy it.

But I think piracy have become a thing that companys can blame on when sales are bad. I don't recall this much talk about piracy on the Commodore 64 time? And by today Activision already gets millions on there Call of Duty shit games that are the same shit everytime. Make somthing new and people maybe want to play it.

[captpain]

Well, for my thoughts on the matter, I really think tha*snore*

[Nasirosuchus]

Exactly, you're not hurting anyone by playing Batsugun Special Version. In the future, emulation is going to be the only way for people to play these games unless people decide to reprint or put them up for digital distribution. But I whole heartedly agree that pirating games that are still being sold by the developers causes problems.

There's never been any evidence that it does, and that's not just for games, it's also for music, movies, and software.

Seriously, it's been possible for years to download an artist's entire discography in under an hour, so if it were as damaging as the industry wants everyone to believe, then all of the major record labels should have long ago gone out of business, but that obviously hasn't happened.

The effect of P2P and hacked games are near zero even when the game is still being sold. First off, there's the fact that when we're talking about STGs they're mostly region-locked to Japan, and many people want to go the emulation route to get around this. The developers in this case aren't losing any money because they obviously never meant for those people to buy the game because they didn't release it where they live.

You also can't assume that everyone who decides to use emulation or play a hacked version of the game would have bought the game if those options weren't available. I know that I don't speak for everyone, but I've been playing a lot of Radirgy Noa, Exzeal, and Ketsui via Makaron and MAME, but even if I couldn't do that, I certainly would never have bought a Japanese Wii or 360 to play them on top of what it would cost to import those games. Should demul or some other project make it so that Mushi-Futari, Espgaluda 2, Deathsmiles, et al can be emulated, then I'll go that route as well. Import prices for those games plus the cost of a Japanese 360 would easily run several hundred dollars that could be used somewhere else, and if I haven't put up the funds for it by now, then I'm obviously never going to.

[Sumez]

I can name you tons of labels that have gone out of business for that exact reason, mate. Major labels are a different matter, they aren't having as much of a hard time as most indie labels are.

And that's my final say in this. As stated, I DON'T want to go there...

[Nasirosuchus]

I'm sorry, but there's never been any proof that it had to do with P2P. In every case, a myriad of other reasons have been found(quality of product, changes in the market/tastes and the fact that smaller labels aren't as equipped to deal with them, poor economy, poor business decisions, etc).

Companies are too quick to use P2P as a scapegoat for poor sales or business failures.

[Jockel]

Well, for my thoughts on the matter, I really think tha*snore*

[Bananamatic]

Yar har, fiddle di dee,
Being a pirate is alright to be

[mjclark]

[drunkninja24]

The only thing I care about in all this hoopla is the day when I can play Ibara without it making my eyes bleed and with proper slowdown, without the need for a PCB.

[yosai]

Why don't you want the PCB? It's hardly expensive.

[Bananamatic]

Yeah, you just stick it in the computer like a graphic card

[Udderdude]

PCI slot supergun, make it happen :P

[Bananamatic]

and then we could download PCBs before they are in arcades

too close for comfort would be an understatement

[TrevHead (TVR)]

While I dont want to get dragged into this argument as ive already posted my thoughts about this in the shooting section of the doujinstyle forum.

The arguement that piracy = a lost sale is as ludicras as to suggest that piracy doesnt harm the industry whatsoever. Its actually somewhere in the middle with ppl pirating for different reasons.

One of the biggest factors is price and how many hoops a person needs to jump though to optain it legally or illegally. Cave stand to lose much from this given that most of their games are imports that due to niche and prestige and exclusivity sell small amounts that in priced above the norm for 2D games. Look at doujin and Touhou which is similar to Cave only one just makes the games for lols and beer money the other is a business with tight margins. Hands up how many of you have a dodgy copy of crimson clover (raises hand)

Even if Cave lose only 5000 sales from this it could mean a difference between western localisation, region free or locked, (a game with less quality or content) or if they green light the STG at all

Yeah i know Cave's games on MAME is great for attracting new fans, but isnt there enough of their games on MAME for the noobs to play?

[hwl]

I dont want to get dragged into this argument [...]

ah, phew

The arguement that piracy = a lost sale is as ludicras as to suggest that piracy doesnt harm the industry whatsoever. Its actually somewhere in the middle with ppl pirating for different reasons.

One of the biggest factors is price and how many hoops a person needs to jump though to optain it legally or illegally. Cave stand to lose much from this given that most of their games are imports that due to niche and prestige and exclusivity sell small amounts that in priced above the norm for 2D games. Look at doujin and Touhou which is similar to Cave only one just makes the games for lols and beer money the other is a business with tight margins. Hands up how many of you have a dodgy copy of crimson clover (raises hand)

Even if Cave lose only 5000 sales from this it could mean a difference between western localisation, region free or locked, (a game with less quality or content) or if they green light the STG at all

Yeah i know Cave's games on MAME is great for attracting new fans, but isnt there enough of their games on MAME for the noobs to play?

[Ex-Cyber]

The only thing I care about in all this hoopla is the day when I can play Ibara without it making my eyes bleed and with proper slowdown, without the need for a PCB.

If it's real slowdown (as opposed to the game faking it), I wouldn't count on emulators getting it 100% right anytime soon. Accurate execution timing is a tricky, tricky issue, especially when emulating modern hardware (where things like pipelined execution, caches, burst-mode memories, multiple buses running at different clock speeds, and multiple masters on a given bus are the norm).

[TrevHead (TVR)]

ah, phew

Sarky sod I felt it was worth "enlghtening" other posters, but now thats over hopefully we can put this debate to bed (and then smother it with a pillow)

[emphatic]

ah, phew

Sarky sod I felt it was worth "enlghtening" other posters, but now thats over hopefully we can put this debate to bed (and then smother it with a pillow)

Believe me, there's no such thing as enlightening in this thread. Welcome to the dark ages.

[Udderdude]

Just wait until matter replicators are invented. If you guys think things are bad now ..

[Ex-Cyber]

Just wait until matter replicators are invented. If you guys think things are bad now ..

This is sort of already happening with so-called "3D printers", at least one of which has a specific design goal of being able to replicate most of its own parts. It's just not polished/mainstream yet.

[JJXB]

ugh. i'm one of the ones that's in the awkward position of not being able to engage in the type of spending required for import gaming on 360, let alone a second 360. so if i can emulate this stuff, i will. but as soon as it's released in the UK, i will pledge to buy it. as soon as both deathsmiles and guwange were available here, i bought them. and if DDPDOJ, Ketsui and DDPDFK were available, i would do just the same. alas, until then the only way i will get to play some of this stuff is emulation.
admittedly some of the emulation perks like using whatever control method you want is a boon but either way, i would fully support a official retail release or download release over here for most shmups that have been and still are japanese only.

[Bananamatic]

I'll import shumps once I stop being a poor student

I buy 95% of all games I play but all the extra stuff required would make me go broke at this point

[RNGmaster]

I'll import shumps once I stop being a poor student

I buy 95% of all games I play but all the extra stuff required would make me go broke at this point

This is why I don't have a J360. Why buy all that shit when you can just enjoy freeware, doujin, and MAME?