XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Fudoh]

Is there any chance you'll get your review copy before wholesalers?

that was the idea, so we'll see about that.

[Fudoh]

We could start compiling a list of things you guys want to see tested once I receive a Mini. No need to list the most obvious things, but different people are probably interested in different aspects after all, so just name what you want tested, so I can provide a full review as early as possible.

[fagin]

Fudoh no rush...... a full review within 24hrs will suffice!

We're obviously all very very reasonable!

[RGB32E]

http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/cgi-bin/deve ... e=20111202

Fastest (comparison) scan converter "XRGB-mini FRAMEMEISTER" is finally released.

。 Equipped with a high performance MARVELL scaler, a low-delay mode of less than 0.1 frames from input to output is possible. This allows for scaling with virtually zero latency - ideal for gamers.
。 We are aware that the game play is also designed XRGB series so far, XRGB-1.2[3?] there was delay of about three frames.
。 There would be an advantage of more than one frame on it. (XRGB-mini compared to the XRGB-3 in B0?)

。 Please visit our product page.
http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb-mini.htm



。 In addition, as previously announced, our 20th anniversary this year by an independent microcomputer software.
。 Another in December but not least, we have launched a campaign directed at the Memorial Shop.

。 Shop Direct discount is not difficult in the circumstances of adults with limited means and the 20th anniversary, during the period may be ordered to buy cheaper than normal.

。 In addition, the peripheral device during a direct store (excluding product support) for customers that purchase, and other prizes and a new product FRAMEMEISTER, also present campaign will be conducted Win a newspaper warehouse bargains wave sleep.
http://micomsoft.co.jp/shop/index20th.html

。 Product promotions and prizes, so could be added at a later date subject, please note your tweet-ish people in person.

。 So thank you in the future from Micomsoft!

[RGB32E]

We could start compiling a list of things you guys want to see tested once I receive a Mini. No need to list the most obvious things, but different people are probably interested in different aspects after all, so just name what you want tested, so I can provide a full review as early as possible.

The two items I'm curious to know more about are:

1. Deep Color output. What are the output bit depth/rate with it set to Auto (On), and Off? How does the picture compare? Does it actually utilize the higher bandwidth of Deep Color? Have you ever tried deep color signals with your XBRs?

2. FULL_STATUS. Specifically page 3, what sort of delay values does it show for 240p, 480p, ect... From the manual:

FULL_STATUS

"STATUS", you can display more information than (or display
There are four pages of information capabilities, the cursor button "◀", "▶" in Table
You can change your show).
-Displays information on the primary input to PAGE 1 =.
-Displays information on the main output of PAGE 2 =.
-Mostly rock and video synchronization delays PAGE 3 = (DELAY) to display the information.
-Displays information on the main firmware PAGE 4 =.

※ "PAGE 3" that appears in the video delay (DELAY) of information, including a delay in the pull-down
Since there is a guideline only.
(Example: The exact time delay 24p → 60p pulldown, this unit can not be measured).

[Fudoh]

Deep Color output. What are the output bit depth/rate with it set to Auto (On), and Off? How does the picture compare? Does it actually utilize the higher bandwidth of Deep Color? Have you ever tried deep color signals with your XBRs?

DC is such a useless feature. The Marvell should process in 4:2:2 10-bit. 4:4:4 8-bit is converted. Since there are NO native deep color sources, the gain is minimal. The newer Sony LCDs can't even properly display full 8-bit, so why bother with DC ? On the Sony BD players and TV which utilize Superbitmapping there are a handful of scenes in which you can actually notice a difference (like dark blue night skies), but it's really nothing you need in any way for videogaming.

[RGB32E]

Deep Color output. What are the output bit depth/rate with it set to Auto (On), and Off? How does the picture compare? Does it actually utilize the higher bandwidth of Deep Color? Have you ever tried deep color signals with your XBRs?

DC is such a useless feature. The Marvell should process in 4:2:2 10-bit. 4:4:4 8-bit is converted. Since there are NO native deep color sources, the gain is minimal. The newer Sony LCDs can't even properly display full 8-bit, so why bother with DC ? On the Sony BD players and TV which utilize Superbitmapping there are a handful of scenes in which you can actually notice a difference (like dark blue night skies), but it's really nothing you need in any way for videogaming.

Yikes... you're so dismissive of that feature!!! I'll suppose a grain of salt is in order... The newer Sony LCDs... where did you encounter that? Are you having issues with your 909?

All that I was getting at is if you'd see a picture difference on your setup with this setting set to Auto, and what the output would be.

[Fudoh]

Deep Color was a great idea, but basically killed off when they decided to limit Blu-Ray encodings to 8-bit.

I wouldn't call them problems, but there are situations in which I can see (little) solarization on certain color combinations which were not there on my previous Sony set.

[Artemio]

hey Fudoh, in the case of Deep color.. do you believe that it causes extra processing delay in the chain? I know it is a minimal and linear conversion... but wouldn't feeding it in the native colorspace be better, if possible?

[Konsolkongen]

The things I'm curious about are pretty obvious but here goes anyway:

MVS and PC-engine with RGB mod in scanline mode output at 1080p60, does this work?

50 > 60Hz conversion?

And the smaller things I'm sure you will take note of yourself. How stable is the picture and how does the scanlines look compared to the XRGB-3's.

[Fudoh]

but wouldn't feeding it in the native colorspace be better, if possible?

no, I can't imagine that there's any additional lag and feeding the native color space is rather impossible, since there are so many different sources (of which none has native 4:2:2 10-bit) and so many displays (of which not all accept 4:2:2 10-bit).

[bryan_c]

We could start compiling a list of things you guys want to see tested once I receive a Mini. No need to list the most obvious things, but different people are probably interested in different aspects after all, so just name what you want tested, so I can provide a full review as early as possible.

These are probably obvious, but just in case they aren't:

• 480i:
  • deinterlacing quality? (compared to XRGB-3, DVDO Edge, etc.)
  • lag introduced by deinterlacing?
  • scanlines supported?
• Component video input quality? (esp. w/ PS2)

[Fudoh]

480i: * scanlines supported?

they are not.

[Tenchu2x]

Micomsoft just confirmed shipment of the testunit for Fudoh. We should have it by tomorrow and will ship it right away to Fudoh who should then receive it by middle of next week, with some luck!
Preorders for the mini also went up a few days ago: http://www.solarisjapan.com/products/XR ... -Unit.html

[Zapf]

Hopefully he'll have some stuff to say before preorders are over.

[Fudoh]

*excited*

I don't think that the Minis will be sold out right away at the launch, so I wouldn't worry about pre-ordering vs. a regular order.

[Tenchu2x]

As announced we got the Mini today and it is already on its way to Fudoh.
Here are some snaps of the box etc.:








Pretty much the same width as the old box but not as much depth and height.
Also with 1200g fully packed for shipping incl bubblewrap etc its almost 600g lighter than the XRGB3.
Hopefully we ll get some preliminary info by next week.

[Friendly]

Well this is the first post I've made on here in years...

I'll be buying one of these as soon as it's released. I really hope it works out OK with an RGB modded PC Engine. I have one of those Lenkeng Scart to HDMI boxes, and I could never get a stable picture out of it. This composite video is killing me!

I have recently purchased this RGB scart (Euro) to HDMI converter http://www.ebay.com/itm/260693254727
Price is around 50 EUR (70 USD)

It works flawlessly with my RGB-modded PC Engine. No noticable lag. Besides RGB Scart, it also has an S-video socket, and you can input both 50hz and 60hz. Has lots of different (hi-res) output resolutions (I'm using 1080p) and you can individually adjust colors and brightness. Even comes with a remote control. I have no clue who the maker is, there is no such information on the box or in the manual.

No scanlines unfortunately, but I didn't expect it from a device as cheap as this anyway.

[grahf]

I have recently purchased this RGB scart (Euro) to HDMI converter ...........

Thanks for the heads-up Friendly. I would have been bought that up a few months ago, but at this point, I think I'm just going to get the Frame Meister. I live in Japan and can avoid shipping fees, so I might as well just bite the bullet. That's providing it handles the PCE, but from what I've read so far I'm optimistic.

Hopefully you can let us PCE guys know how it works out, Fudoh

[Friendly]

You are welcome.

In case anyone cares, the upscaler I got is made by a company called Ligawo (the name is on the bar code sticker, didn't see it before).
It's called "SCART TO HDMI Converter"

Full specs:
Input: RGB scart, S-Video, L/R-in (audio)
Automatically identifies RGB (50/60Hz) and CVBS (NTSC/PAL)
OSD Menu to adjust RGB parameters freely (brightness, contrast, color, tint, R brightness, G brightness, B brightness)
Output: HDMI, L/R-out (audio), DVI (via adapter)
Output resolutions: 720p, 1080p (HDMI) 1024x768, 1360x768, 1680x1050 (DVI)
Output formats: 4:3, 16:9, 16:10, 2,35:1
IR remote control

I have successfully tested it with a number of consoles (both 50 and 60Hz). One did not work: My RGB-modded Famicom. Maybe it has something to do with the built-in RGB booster circuit.

Does Frame Meister G2 have any real advantage over the Ligawo upscaler other than scanline support? I mean, for the price of one G2 you could buy more than seven Ligawo upscalers

[Fudoh]

Does Frame Meister G2 have any real advantage over the Ligawo upscaler other than scanline support?

quality, man, quality. I've had a bunch of the larger Ligawo units here for review and they were (in part) so bad that I didn't even care to put a review online. If you don't care for quality and just want a Scart RGB input on your TV, then it may be fine, but if you actually want to surpass your TV's own processing, then you need something better.

[Strider77]

I've never been so excited for someone else to get something. Can't wait for your review Fudah.

My list of questions are no brainers really:

Quality of 480i handling
PS2 component performance
Scanline performance (saturn)
Hi res pass through performance
PC Engine RGB compatibility
MVS/NEO RGB performance and compatibility
hori/vert position options, if any at all

Also will the from port handle VGA as well? In other words will it operate in the same manner as the the VGA port on the rear of the XRGB3. It'll be able to handle all those resolutions (pass through ect) and signal formats.

[Fudoh]

Also will the from port handle VGA as well?

I don't think so. The manual only states 240p and 480i for the Mini-Din input on the front.

[Plasia]

My list:

240p performance from saturn
Component performance from wii/ps2
Neo Geo
CPS3
Atomiswave

Lag tests.

[Fudoh]

CPS3
Atomiswave

why ? Are CPS3 and Atomiswave anyhow different from other sources ? Are they problematic on any other processors ?

[Konsolkongen]

Perhaps the CPS3's weird 384×224 resolution can be a problem on some displays? The Atomiswave supports both 15kHz and 31kHz if I remember correctly.

[RGB32E]

Perhaps the CPS3's weird 384×224 resolution can be a problem on some displays? The Atomiswave supports both 15kHz and 31kHz if I remember correctly.

The signal timing and characteristics between CPS1, CPS2, and CPS3 all vary despite the common 384x224 resolution these output. 1 and 2 are similar sizing on a CRT monitor, but the 2 is much stronger of a signal. CPS3 is about as strong (RGB voltage levels) as the CPS2, but outputs a horizontally narrow image compared to the CPS1 or 2. Long time back when I was using a RGB to S-Video converter (AD725 eval board), the CPS3 had RGB channel swapping on the S-Video output (RGB -> GBR), where as CPS1 and 2 were fine. Running the CPS3 CSYNC through an Extron PA 250 (S->H/V) fixed the color channel swap. Hence, the sync output on the CPS3 is kinda funky compared to CPS1 and 2! However, the CPS3 works just fine without extra sync processing on the XRGB-3 in B0. IIRC, there might have been stability problems with B1 mode though...

[Artemio]

Perhaps the CPS3's weird 384×224 resolution can be a problem on some displays? The Atomiswave supports both 15kHz and 31kHz if I remember correctly.

I haven found issues with either. My results with the XRGB-3 and XRGB-2 are documented in the wiki. For CPS-3 there is a special case though, the 16:9 mode on Second Impact... but that only depends on having a 16:9 mode on the TV or processor.

Atomiswave usually looked really bad in 15K mode =P But that is the way the games were done, nothing to do with processors.

[Konsolkongen]

I have never owned any of the CPS systems but this is very good information indeed

[RGB32E]

I haven found issues with either. My results with the XRGB-3 and XRGB-2 are documented in the wiki. For CPS-3 there is a special case though, the 16:9 mode on Second Impact... but that only depends on having a 16:9 mode on the TV or processor.

Yeah, double impact's 16:9 mode would be an exception.... Wasn't that 496x224?

Will you be adding a wiki page for the XRGB-mini? Think there should be another translation project?