BATTLE GAREGGA REV.2016 (M2)

[Squire Grooktook]

Yes there will always be dedicated indie teams, and Team Shanghai Alice is never going anywhere because of the salivating fandom that doesn't even play the games, but at that rate there will never be another CAVE. There will never be another Raizing. There will never be another Treasure. There will never be another Psikyo, Takumi, Irem, Konami, or whatever flavour of (relatively) big developer you personally adore.

I am of the heretical opinion that many doujin developers have surpassed their large commercial predecessors

That aside, the financial situation and profitability of the situation is probably more complex then "we have to buy this as a community or shmups will go away on consoles". But regardless, I don't see any reason not to support this immaculate effort on a timeless title in any way I can.

Rock on M2, you crazy wonderful bastards.

[Jeneki]

My lady is drooling over a new Persona game so I'll be getting a PS4 soon. Heck yeah I'll be buying Garegga here.

I've never been the target audience for LEs though, so I'll pass on the box of random stuff.

[Despatche]

Good luck getting that slick player-friendly HUD in MAME, that's all I'm saying. I'm assuming this is gonna have some really cool arrange mode, too.

You have to try really hard to not have some serious respect for this project. You have to be the absolute worst kind of person. Even someone who dislikes Garegga (like me) can appreciate what M2 is trying to do here.

[iconoclast]

I think everyone talking about sales is forgetting one thing: Japan doesn't care about MAME. So Garegga and Feveron are great picks for their primary market. Maybe not so much for the west, but I don't think either game has been announced for a worldwide release anyway.

[Square_Air]

I am of the heretical opinion that many doujin developers have surpassed their large commercial predecessors

In this day and age, absolutely. But imagine if Raizing, Psikyo, and Takumi were still around to this day with 20 years of technological innovation backing them up along with the funds to make whatever project they choose. I can only hypothesize that the majority of our individual top 25 lists would look very different in a world where all of these development teams were able to reach their full potential in 2016. Of course there is the possibility that they could have creatively burnt out; it's just a bunch of conjecture being thrown to the wind. As much as I love a lot of the doujin software I just don't feel they ever truly filled the void.

That aside, the financial situation and profitability of the situation is probably more complex then "we have to buy this as a community or shmups will go away on consoles". But regardless, I don't see any reason not to support this immaculate effort on a timeless title in any way I can.

Certainly, my statement was much more of a blanket one encompassing the present, the past few years, and the future. In the end though, the financial success of these companies does largely depend on community support to thrive.

[Shelcoof]

Good luck getting that slick player-friendly HUD in MAME, that's all I'm saying. I'm assuming this is gonna have some really cool arrange mode, too.

You have to try really hard to not have some serious respect for this project. You have to be the absolute worst kind of person. Even someone who dislikes Garegga (like me) can appreciate what M2 is trying to do here.

You seriously believe anyone who doesn't care for the added UI is an absolute worst kind of person?

[phase3]

Good luck getting that slick player-friendly HUD in MAME, that's all I'm saying. I'm assuming this is gonna have some really cool arrange mode, too.

You have to try really hard to not have some serious respect for this project. You have to be the absolute worst kind of person. Even someone who dislikes Garegga (like me) can appreciate what M2 is trying to do here.

You seriously believe anyone who doesn't care for the added UI is an absolute worst kind of person?

I'm just going to play a bit of devils advocate here, it should be noted that I truly think that the new UI will only provide significantly more appreciation to the game, and has effectively addressed many of the issues people seem to have with the game. I also feel I should note that the immaculate attention to detail is something I've never seen before in a project of this nature, and I'm ecstatic that a company like this exists to cater specifically to such a niche audience. Absolutely good on 'em.

If we were to look at Garegga's presentation on the PCB as the definitive version of the game, as in the only actual product of the creator's collective vision, then the new UI is totally superfluous. Borrowing from some of my thoughts on the game I shared on the Garegga appreciation thread, some of the game's charm is that it actually doesnt communicate the rank's mechanisms to the player, and some of the more obtuse things like the special alternative option formations are almost more like secrets rewarded to the adventurous player. I happen to kind of like that sort of stuff. It gives the game an additional layer of complexity and depth. That being said, not everyone thinks that way, and REV 2016 addresses any sort of design flaw anyone with sense would perceive the game having.

Again, totally chuffed with what we're getting, though.

[Kobayashi]

PS4 becoming an increasingly attractive platform...

[Bananamatic]

You have to try really hard to not have some serious respect for this project

I think garegga is garbage but I'm already 100% certain this will be the best shmup port of all time

M2 did one cave port and from the technical standpoint it was several levels above anything cave themselves ported to anything
now they even have players helping out with the gameplay features and it looks like they added pretty much everything you could ask for in garegga

it's basically guaranteed to be literally perfect and people still find things to complain about

I bet they're even going to remove the infinite that caused the game to get banned from arcadia and a ton of players are going to move to rev. 2016

[ciox]

The UI is a big deal! High score board per stage, rankgraph, boss timer and hit points, special option item chart, remastered music, etc. This is not just something they should be applauded for doing, this is something they should be supported for doing.

You know, the UI is nice, but I would have liked a simple scoring history like in Batrider/Bakraid more than most of the widgets in there, you know, the thing that says +10000/+30000 when you kill stuff indicating if you're killing stuff properly.
Ah it's probably too late to add this if it's not in already..

[cave hermit]

I'm kind of surprised there wasn't a dedicated HUD element for the medal value table highlighting the current value. Then again you already get current value info from the enemy drop table, so it would be kind of unnecessary...

[Squire Grooktook]

I am of the heretical opinion that many doujin developers have surpassed their large commercial predecessors

In this day and age, absolutely. But imagine if Raizing, Psikyo, and Takumi were still around to this day with 20 years of technological innovation backing them up along with the funds to make whatever project they choose.

Believe it or not, I'm not sure about that.

I feel that the free and open nature of doujin development leads to a lot more innovation and creativity than teams that need to work under deadlines and also please fanbases.

Like Cave peeps always say in interviews how they try to come up with new and interesting ideas while still pleasing their hardcore fanbase. And what this pretty much always amounted to (in the latter half of their lifetime, at least) was each game had a slightly different way of increasing your score/combo counter, with everything else being identical.

Compare the doujin scene where you get stuff like MOTHERFUCKING SORA which artfully combines fighting game and character action mechanics to create something that might very well be alienating to "I only play danmaku" hardcore shmuppers, but to everyone else is a brillaint and exciting breath of fresh air. I don't see Cave stepping outside of their comfort zone like that. Then again, if they were more profitable, who knows.

Well, I suppose G.Rev layed the foundation for Sora with Senko No Ronde, but still. And besides, that was a multiplayer game.

[phase3]

it's basically guaranteed to be literally perfect and people still find things to complain about

I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with you, but preemptively assuming something will be flawless is a good way of disappointing yourself. None of us have played the new port (to my knowledge) so let's not try to jump to any conclusions, whether they're good or bad.

[kid aphex]

What is this SORA game...?

[Squire Grooktook]

Awesome is what it is.

[chempop]

Moeshit is what it is.

[Squire Grooktook]

moeshit with a motherfucking power slide.

[Sumez]

I'm just going to play a bit of devils advocate here, it should be noted that I truly think that the new UI will only provide significantly more appreciation to the game, and has effectively addressed many of the issues people seem to have with the game.

"Garegga is too complex and convoluted to get into, for a shooting game"

http://www.hypedgamer.com/wp-content/up ... egga-3.jpg

(Mod edit: changed huge image to a link -Ghegs)

"Hrrrnnngg"

[trap15]

Left half is completely unrelated to the complexity of the game, a big part of the right side is used for information already available in the game window or information that is insignificant and/or non-hidden.

[Sumez]

I wasn't really being serious.
Well, I do believe that an insanely overcluttered UI does feel really alienating and is NOT gonna get any new players to pick up the game, but once you know what you're doing, the rankgraph is pretty cool. But I feel like I'm looking at an MMO here

Personally I think it kicks absolute ass that M2 put so much effort into this.

[Shepardus]

I hope they have built-in autofire adjustment, but I don't see it listed in the controls part of the UI mockup... (though they were even thoughtful enough to add a button for A+B+C)

[MintyTheCat]

I do not own a PS2/3 or 4 but I will buy one just to play BG

Is this meant to be a physical release? I hope so.

Edit:

It is digital and a physical release.

[Zaarock]

Left half is completely unrelated to the complexity of the game, a big part of the right side is used for information already available in the game window or information that is insignificant and/or non-hidden.

Was the same deal with Hellsinker yet a lot of (new) players complain about the UI. It makes the game look more conveluted than it really is, even though 90% of it is insignificant or already shown in game window or audio cues.

Ignoring optional sections of UI in games seems to be a dealbreaker in some cases. See the Imalice trial, it's a very simple game to play for score sort of like Eschatos original but I've seen a lot of comments of being turned off by the apparent complexity of the HUD which can again be ignored. In StellaVanity there's no reason to look at the sidebars while playing but it gets the same treatment.

Wouldn't be surprised if the UI turns off a few new players from this port but idk. Looks super good for people who already play garegga.

Spoiler

Well, I suppose G.Rev layed the foundation for Sora with Senko No Ronde, but still. And besides, that was a multiplayer game.

Acceleration of Suguri 2 plays extremely similar to Sora and is a fighting game. I think Sora has a lot fighting game elements because it also builds on how Acceleration of Suguri 1 worked.

[GSK]

The alternative to the border-HUD is putting nothing in the borders and then weathering a deluge of complaints about "wasted screen space".

[mamboFoxtrot]

^ yeah, one of many "damned if you do, damned if you don't" things about shmups...


This is just as awesome and unexpected as Dangun getting a port!

Now I just need to actually get a PS4...

[Sumez]

Surely it's highly configurable, allowing you to display/hide elements or play without it entirely?

[Shepardus]

The alternative to the border-HUD is putting nothing in the borders and then weathering a deluge of complaints about "wasted screen space".

You forgot the "stretch a 3:4 game to a 16:9 aspect ratio" alternative.

[Sumez]

Holy crap that review is the best thing ever. Thank you so much <3

[MintyTheCat]

I am wondering how easy it will be to extract the Rev 2016 game event data. I have never looked inside BG's code myself but it would be nice if this could be back-ported as a ROM to the Arcade PCB.

Any one ever gone inside the BG code?

[Illyrian]

They could at least give the graphics a HD update.

Unfortunately this will probably only sell less than 5k copies world wide due to it's complexity as a shmup and the bollocks 1996 graphics. For the record I think Garegga looks fine as a shmup from the 90's but these days people expect more. Even new pixel art games are much more complex graphics wise than old games.

This also needs options for:
1. Visible hitboxes
2. "No rank" mode for casuals where rank never increases
3. Tutorial videos explaining what the fuck shmup rank is for people new to the genre

These things I think are necessary if they want anyone who is not hardcore into shmups to buy it. This is because when games media review shmups they commonly bring up complexity being bad and a lack of a proper explanation of scoring mechanics. If you provide people with the information they need to pick up the game more easily and make the graphics look reasonable more casual fans will buy it and that might lead to more shmups coming to PS4.