The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.

[pokemon123]

urghh i think i give up on scoring. All it is leading to massive frustration. I like the yagawa game randomness but a medal spawning right in front of my face just as i move out of the way and it drops is infuriating. I know it's technically every 10 or so enemies but still. I think maybe these games aren't for me as well, they're fun but i don't have the right mindset to clear them and get frustrated too easily with myself. Maybe i'll just go back to playing touhou only , okay sorry for my constant ranting lately IRL problems and i'm taking out my frustration on this thread.

[Shepardus]

If you're using Wild Snail try using a faster ship like Gain, Miyamoto, or Flying Baron. Extra speed helps a ton with catching medals, at least until you've gotten consistent enough to know where to expect medal drops. Miyamoto's speed takes some getting used to but it's really useful in a lot of places and his options are super powerful, making him my favorite choice. I actually find low-level Garegga scoring less frustrating than playing Touhou for survival, but that may just be me. Even if you make mistakes it's not the end of the world and I've still gotten decent scores with a medal drop or two. Even most deaths aren't too terrible since you still get something from it rather than lose all your stocked-up bombs. It's all about accepting the mindset that things aren't going to go perfectly and that's okay, what matters is how you make the most of your mistakes.

[copy-paster]

Today it's May 29th, the day when Gradius gets launched in Japanese arcade and celebrate their 30th anniversary.

[o.pwuaioc]

I'll add my voice to grieve about three major annoyances. 1. bullet hells where I barely move the joystick to dodge bullets and my hitbox is a tiny pixel in the middle of my plane; 2) bullet hells where there's so many bullets that I can't properly see what's going on on-screen (and this is coming from a guy that enjoys Psykio shoot-em-all shooters); 3) sexualized anime babes. I'm no prude, but I just find it tacky. Give me some war hell, not overt phallic imagery (though ships reminiscent of genitalia—you know which ones I'm talking about!—are fine).

[Squire Grooktook]

bullet hells where I barely move the joystick to dodge bullets and my hitbox is a tiny pixel in the middle of my plane;

You'll probably die if you play like that. Tap dodging is important, but you need to move a lot and macro a lot for a lot of patterns.

[MoreorLess]

I'll add my voice to grieve about three major annoyances. 1. bullet hells where I barely move the joystick to dodge bullets and my hitbox is a tiny pixel in the middle of my plane; 2) bullet hells where there's so many bullets that I can't properly see what's going on on-screen (and this is coming from a guy that enjoys Psykio shoot-em-all shooters); 3) sexualized anime babes. I'm no prude, but I just find it tacky. Give me some war hell, not overt phallic imagery (though ships reminiscent of genitalia—you know which ones I'm talking about!—are fine).

I'd be inclined to agree with all three, the first two really aren't essential to bullet hell type games either, throwing more and more bullets at the player without making sure you have a good design/mechanism to keep gameplay interesting just seems lazy to me.

The last one I didn't have a problem with the Parodius stuff in the 90's, partly because it was more of a one off and partly because is was both humourous and openly sexy involving adult women. What I find creepy in more recent shooters is that its much more universal, involves girls rather than women and is so homourless and generally unwilling to openly acknowledge its selling with sex. Whilst "pedo" criticism is likely wide of the mark you can't help but look at this stuff and makes assumptions about the emotionally maturity of the people its aimed at in Japanese arcades.

[copy-paster]

I had some love and hate in Darius Twin.
The love is it keeps both firepower and missiles when you die, less branching stages, and kickass intro sequence. The hate is repetitive enemy attacks, less challenge, too many enemies came from behind, and doesn't allow to continue after losing all lives (it even worse if you managed into last stage).

Also the music extremely reminds me to the Mega Man X games, maybe cause they use same soundfonts ?

[CWM]

I'm curious, did Dr. Trouserplank ever manage to 1CC a shmup?

Anyway, small bright bullets on similarly coloured backgrounds are really difficult to see for me. Had a huge problem with them in some parts of DDP. However, DDP's backgrounds are really good looking because of their relatively high colour saturation, so at least there's an upside. What doesn't have an upside that I can think of, are asshole powerups, especially ones which you "drop" after dying. In Espgaluda, for example, they immediately float to the upper part of the screen, so if you die to a boss, good luck picking them up again without bomb invulnerability. For some reason this really pisses me off, like the game's trolling me in a very petty way for no reason whatsoever.

[xxx1993]

I hate checkpoints. Checkpoints have been the bane of shmups, whether it involves losing a life or using a continue...

[Squire Grooktook]

I can work around them, but checkpoints break the flow for me, and therefore I hate them whether they are easy and trivial or not.

[Shepardus]

I dislike checkpoints too, especially when they take away your powerups along with sending you back to the checkpoint (I'm looking at you, Gradius). If I didn't make it past the section the first time, I'm probably not going to do so with a peashooter and movement the speed of molasses.

[mamboFoxtrot]

lrn2play play2win u scrubz


j/k but in all seriousness, I wonder what the tally is on how many times checkpoints/power-downs has been brought up in this thread.

[xxx1993]

How about randomizing powerups? That has plagued the Raiden series for a long time now.

[gameoverDude]

One thing that's good is the changing powerup that you can shoot to freeze (Blazing Lazers & Super Aleste have this right).
Also one thing good in Crimzon Clover, DDP-DFK, & Razion is that you don't even have to worry about powerups or recovering with a peashooter. You always have a fair chance, and if you feel the restart bug biting you- it's not because of losing your weapon power.

Now a full powerdown on death is rotten. Look at Darius II, Twin Cobra, or many other older titles. About the only way to get a 1CC is to go for a 1LC.
I'll have to second CWM on asshole powerups- which IMO includes power down items, like the skull in Dragon Spirit that takes a life point and levels you down.

[xxx1993]

Oh, yeah, losing all your powerups when you lose a life is a pain also.

[o.pwuaioc]

Oh, yeah, losing all your powerups when you lose a life is a pain also.

Thank god for the Konami code.

[Stevens]

3) sexualized anime babes. I'm no prude, but I just find it tacky. Give me some war hell, not overt phallic imagery (though ships reminiscent of genitalia—you know which ones I'm talking about!—are fine).

Agree. Deal breaker for me personally, especially if accompanied by high pitched anime voice. Which they always are.

I happen to know a game with some bad ass female pilots though....

[xxx1993]

Oh, yeah, losing all your powerups when you lose a life is a pain also.

Thank god for the Konami code.

Otherwise you wouldn't stand a chance in Gradius.

[Cee]

Oh, yeah, losing all your powerups when you lose a life is a pain also.

Thank god for the Konami code.

Otherwise you wouldn't stand a chance in Gradius.

Scrub congregation.

[Blinge]

OOHHHH trash talk up in here!

score competition throwdown time?

[o.pwuaioc]

Oh, yeah, losing all your powerups when you lose a life is a pain also.

Thank god for the Konami code.

Otherwise you wouldn't stand a chance in Gradius.

I wouldn't stand a chance after *dying* in Gradius. I'm fine if I don't make mistakes.

[Shepardus]

In stage 4 in Ikaruga, that rotating thing after the stage opener blends too much with the background, I keep running into it because it's a dirty white against a pale brown that makes it easy to miss it compared to the brightly-colored bullets.

[LordHypnos]

high pitched anime voice

Ugh, this is really annoying. I wouldn't say it's an all out deal breaker for me though. Unfortunately this is true of several of my favorite shmups, including Triggerheart Exelica and Gunbird 2 (though less so, presumably, if you play as the robot or one of the male characters). Also annoys me in Futari. Palm may be a dude, but he still has a high pitched anime voice b/c he is a child.


On a more immediate note: tfw your autofire button stops working right at a boss where a single death is basically instant game over, specifically Gunbird 2 Stage 1-4 boss. Also when you finally manage to no miss all the way to the boss of 1-3 and then die twice in quick succession. Goddamn chain deaths.

[mamboFoxtrot]

Chain deaths are always a soul crusher. Especially in games where you power down when you die, like Darius games or Gates of Thunder. It's like "shit, there goes a power level, better be caref--FUCK!! Now I'm pitifully weak! WOE IS ME."

Eventually, some day, someone is going to make a game who's scoring system involves chaining deaths. I have no clue how that'll work, but it will be done!

[LordHypnos]

Chain deaths are always a soul crusher. Especially in games where you power down when you die, like Darius games or Gates of Thunder. It's like "shit, there goes a power level, better be caref--FUCK!! Now I'm pitifully weak! WOE IS ME."

Eventually, some day, someone is going to make a game who's scoring system involves chaining deaths. I have no clue how that'll work, but it will be done!

Yeah, Gunbird 2 is a bit of an interesting example, because there are no checkpoints and the powerdowns have pretty minimal effect, it's more just that you kind of have to take out certain enemies / boss phases as quickly as possible, and if you don't you're fucked. I usually die with plenty of bombs in stock, too, but it's kind of hard to reflex bomb in this game with how fast everything moves. Overall an incredibly fun game, mind you, just tough as nails.

[xxx1993]

Checkpoints are still the bane of shmup players, including myself, though.

[Bananamatic]

Checkpoints are still the bane of shmup players, including myself, though.

Bane?

[Giest118]

Eventually, some day, someone is going to make a game who's scoring system involves chaining deaths. I have no clue how that'll work, but it will be done!

I once came up with the idea for a goofy Battle Garegga parody sequel called "Battle Garegga 2: Medal Storm". One of the mechanics would be that if you die, you get 100,000 points... and then if you die again as soon as possible, you'll get 200,000, then 300,000, etc.
If you started a suicide chain with enough stock and at the right score point, you could keep this up indefinitely by way of getting extends off of your suicides.

[Shepardus]

Isn't that basically what Battle Bakraid is, including being somewhat of a sequel to Battle Garegga?

[Blinge]

Checkpoints are still the bane of shmup players, including myself, though.

Bane?

Bane!