Too close for comfort? the revival?

[emphatic]

All this because some kids demand stuff they can't have.

[DMC]

I'm surprise Cave even heard of their games being emulated on pc..... someone on this forum must be pissed to have spend so much money on pcbs so he sent a letter to cave to shut it down.

Awesome, conspiracy theory time!

FIND THE SHUMPS.SYSTEM11 MOLE

Haha, awesome post and smiley!

Maybe we should send in the Ketsui Defence Force again? But there may be a conflict of interest there.
Or else we should consider hiring the FBBI (the Federal Bureau of Bee Investigation)!

[Vamos]

All this because some kids demand stuff they can't have.

Yeah but they can besides dfk everything IS out and will stay out . Reporting to cave though like you are part of the family or something is fucking weird i mean that is wanking to spice girls level of sad act.

[BIL]

Maybe we should send in the Ketsui Defence Force again? But there may be a conflict of interest there.

No! Not the KDF! Those guys are too crazy for such sensitive work...



Remember how they singlehandedly terrorised the SHUMPS.SYSTEM11 population into voting Ketsui onto the top 25 after half a decade of resistance? We need this mole alive!

[CMPXCHG8B]

It's my code we're talking about a patch to anyway, I approve the exception.

Wait, you wrote cavesh3? That's awesome to know that some of the MAME devs surf this forum, if you did.

Perhaps you're in a position to answer another nagging question I've had. R. Belmont had said somewhere (before the C&D) something that was basically equivalent to "just wait for dynarec ", and I'm pretty sure that thread was about the CV1000 systems. Given that the SH3 core code *is* the SH4 core, and the SH4 is used in /other/ drivers (like Naomi)- I'm wondering- was work on the dynarec SH4 (if it even existed) effectively suspended when the Cave C&D hit, or has it continued?

I'm just curious as to the depth of Cave's cease and desist on the MAME project, and if it extended to anything other then cavesh3.

-CMPX

[DMC]

Maybe we should send in the Ketsui Defence Force again? But there may be a conflict of interest there.

No! Not the KDF! Those guys are too crazy for such sensitive work...

image

Remember how they singlehandedly terrorised the SHUMPS.SYSTEM11 population into voting Ketsui onto the top 25 after half a decade of resistance? We need this mole alive!

To avoid off-topic derailing, I have started another topic for this important issue. http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39273

[IseeThings]

It's my code we're talking about a patch to anyway, I approve the exception.

Wait, you wrote cavesh3? That's awesome to know that some of the MAME devs surf this forum, if you did.

Perhaps you're in a position to answer another nagging question I've had. R. Belmont had said somewhere (before the C&D) something that was basically equivalent to "just wait for dynarec ", and I'm pretty sure that thread was about the CV1000 systems. Given that the SH3 core code *is* the SH4 core, and the SH4 is used in /other/ drivers (like Naomi)- I'm wondering- was work on the dynarec SH4 (if it even existed) effectively suspended when the Cave C&D hit, or has it continued?

I'm just curious as to the depth of Cave's cease and desist on the MAME project, and if it extended to anything other then cavesh3.

-CMPX

He was working on it, and no, Cave have no say on progress for emulation of generic / general purpose components. (as you may have noticed, none of the actual Sh3 core changes were reverted, nor was the Yamaha emulation removed, those are all off the shelf components not specific to the cave board)

Last I heard what progress there was got lost in some HDD troubles tho, so no idea if it will ever see the light of day.

As for the driver, it started off as a combination of the skeleton driver in MAME, some SH3 improvements I'd already made, some SH3 fixes from RB, and Luca's old code, but TBH after input from Metallic (who fixed a whole bunch of GFX bugs due to problems in Luca's blitter), and a complete rewrite / optimization+safe threading of all the blitter functions from me along with SH3 busy loop speedups there wasn't really much of the old driver left. OG then chucked in the Yamaha emulation, myself and Kale emulated the RTC / EEPROM device. What was left from Luca's driver was mainly just the flash handling which I'd upgraded to support block erase/write, and should really be a generic component anyway (there are many other systems using the same family of flashes across both MAME and MESS)

So credit it how you see fit, information came from various sources, there were many steps to get there, lots of code ended up being rewritten entirely by Metallic (Demul) and myself. New previously unemulated components were drafted up from others in a matter of days.

You won't find a single one of those people complaining about the removal tho. As stated earlier, the core improvements and device emulation make the whole thing worthwhile as they're all reusable components. The actual driver can wait for whenever, by which time there might be an actual SH3/4 recompiler, CPU speeds will be better anyway, and at least a 'slowpoke' level of slowdown simulation can be added without resorting to unsafe threading.

Anyway, that's that, nothing further will be done on it as per request. The people who were making the progress can no longer work on it, or post any sources / binaries relating to it.

[CMPXCHG8B]

Interesting.

Do you know what the reason was for releasing the driver in the first place?

Luca's website had said that his own code on emulating Ibara wouldn't be released until 3 years after Cave stopped making money off the CV1000 platform. Given that I've seen recent games (DDP:Res for example) on that exact PCB from late 2010/2011, it seems kind of peculiar that the driver was released... So soon.

I would almost infer that it was some sort of bizarre spur-of-the-moment thing, but then again, steady progress was made on it throughout the publishing of several update diffs. And that's a really long spur-of-the-moment thing, if that was indeed the case. And since Demul seemed to be a part of this, I'm wondering- was the driver released to serve as "documentation" of the CV1000 hardware (in line with MAME's core goals), or was the driver released so soon simply to prove that MAME could run the games?

-CMPX

[Estebang]

I wouldn't doubt for an instant that Cave knows about this forum, and probably has one of their English-speaking staff glance at it now and then. Don't we have one of our members in the Special Thanks credits for DFK PAL?

[Barrakketh]

Don't we have one of our members in the Special Thanks credits for DFK PAL?

Dunno, but we have some members that work at the publisher that's doing the PAL release.

[IseeThings]

Interesting.
Do you know what the reason was for releasing the driver in the first place?

As I said, I was doing work on the SH3/4 core. A number of people had said they'd encountered problems with other systems using the CPUs, and given that Luca had said in the past (in very vague terms) that SHx fixes were needed to run the Cave games I was interested in getting them running to ensure that any critical bugs in the core which needed to be fixed for them got fixed. In the end 2-3 bugs were fixed, lots of optimizations done giving a 2x core speedup for basic operations, and fairly clean SH3 and BE/LE support was added to the core, so goal achieved. Keep in mind that prior to this nobody was actually using the SH3/4 core in any practical application, meaning testing of it hadn't been done extensively, it was running the Naomi stuff, but running it so slowly (with a lot of games failing) that it was impossible to call the core 'trusted' in any way. It's now a lot more trusted.

Basically Luca could just watch while the entire driver was redone from scratch using code from Demul (which is what was happening) or contribute what he'd done.. In the end he chose to contribute. The hardware is simple, translating the Demul code instead would probably have taken a day or two more.

The Cave games working were really just a nice side effect of wanting to improve other areas of MAME, in order to benefit other systems as well. That's why I say no big deal that they were removed in the end. As for the driver, it's *much* better than it was at the time (Luca wasn't lying with those performance stats he put up, and several games didn't even boot and/or had very noticeable glitches, didn't save settings, and were silent) and the additional components needed remain properly maintained simply due to being part of MAME/MESS in the meantime rather than the old code becoming completely unusable.

[CMPXCHG8B]

Awesome.

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate it. It's always interesting to know the reasons behind some things, and it's nice to hear from a developer on the inside. Getting good information out of the MAMEworld forums can be tricky at times...

Cheers,
-CMPX

[Dave_K.]

Don't we have one of our members in the Special Thanks credits for DFK PAL?

Dunno, but we have some members that work at the publisher that's doing the PAL release.

Hogwash! Don't derail the conspiracy theory that the mole on the forum is clearly a PCB elitist who invested too much money in PCBs and doesn't want anyone else to play these Cave games!

[gojira]

I downloaded mame slowpoke edition, mushihime sama futari black label and death smiles, my two favourite games which I have played 100s of hours in the arcade already.

yeah I could probably go to the arcade two blocks away (yes I live in Japan ain't I cool) and play the real thing, but you know what I am too lazy to get up from my futon, the weather in Kawasaki is shite and anyway I so don't care if the emulation is 0.5 nanoseconds off to the real thing.

and you know what? playing death smiles on my laptop is about one billion times more fun than reading this thread.

instead of whining about how CAVE will fold tomorrow because no one is going to buy their games, how the used games market is going to cannibalize demonoid, the licensing scheme of MAME, drivers that don't exist or how you wanked off to that PCB you acquired over ebay, you should all just play the abovementioned games. they are really good.

[shmuppyLove]

instead of whining about how CAVE will fold tomorrow because no one is going to buy their games, how the used games market is going to cannibalize demonoid, the licensing scheme of MAME, drivers that don't exist or how you wanked off to that PCB you acquired over ebay, you should all just play the abovementioned games. they are really good.

/ thread

problem?

[brentsg]

instead of whining about how CAVE will fold tomorrow because no one is going to buy their games, how the used games market is going to cannibalize demonoid, the licensing scheme of MAME, drivers that don't exist or how you wanked off to that PCB you acquired over ebay, you should all just play the abovementioned games. they are really good.

Using this logic, forums shouldn't exist.

[captpain]

I downloaded mame slowpoke edition, mushihime sama futari black label and death smiles, my two favourite games which I have played 100s of hours in the arcade already.

yeah I could probably go to the arcade two blocks away (yes I live in Japan ain't I cool) and play the real thing, but you know what I am too lazy to get up from my futon, the weather in Kawasaki is shite and anyway I so don't care if the emulation is 0.5 nanoseconds off to the real thing.

lol you are pathetic, stopped reading right here

[Siren2011]

Using this logic, forums shouldn't exist.

ROFL.

[mjclark]

I predict the release of Demul 0.5.7 in the last week of December

[joeboto]

I predict the release of Demul 0.5.7 in the last week of December

thread necro!

and hopefully it will.

[Observer]

Starting the "Too Close for Comfort" engines in T-minus... 3, 2, 1!

[Udderdude]

Ohh yeah you know what time it is

[xMetalliCx]

I predict the release of Demul 0.5.7 in the last week of December

on Christmas ? in Russia it is Jan 7th

[joeboto]

I predict the release of Demul 0.5.7 in the last week of December

on Christmas ? in Russia it is Jan 7th

from the dev himself!

[Shion]

So guys, how does this work? I have the slowpoke MAME build, and the game ROMs. It says it's missing some ROM files. Do I need a particular bios to emulate the Cave games?

[Vamos]

Means you dont have the right roms unlucky.

[null1024]

It's only a renaming issue. I can't remember which files are misnamed in the most common sets floating around, but just rename the files that have the most similar ones to what it's asking for [eg, it'd be something like renaming m4-asdf.bin to m4.bin or whatever].

[Rex Cavalier]

(The ones i remember)
Rename
mushisam.zip into mushisama.zip
futari15.zip into futari15a.zip

[KAI]

Does anyone here knows the way to encrypt Naomi Rom Carts to play them on Makaron/Demul, cause I’ve been trying to play Illvelo on Mame but it seems to be useless, bad dump perhaps?
I've read on Guru's site that u can grab a Naomi Mame rom and convert it into a .dat file to be played on Makaron, and if it runs on Makaron, it will run –even better- on Demul (at least Mamonoro and Radirgy Noah have less glitches on them by using it)

[mjclark]

Does anyone here knows the way to encrypt Naomi Rom Carts to play them on Makaron/Demul, cause I’ve been trying to play Illvelo on Mame but it seems to be useless, bad dump perhaps?
I've read on Guru's site that u can grab a Naomi Mame rom and convert it into a .dat file to be played on Makaron, and if it runs on Makaron, it will run –even better- on Demul (at least Mamonoro and Radirgy Noah have less glitches on them by using it)

Wooh! If you get this to work let me know- in theory Illvelo should run on Makaron really well just like Exzeal etc but I've never seen any evidence of this on the interweb...and believe me I've looked...