Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

[trap15]

Release the shot button when you die?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I have a question as well : Gun Frontier is a cool game, but Taito's not very nice calling me a cunt* just because I didn't want to destroy my fingers. Even with 5-delay autofire, there's a chance to trigger it. Is there a way to be sure not to have our initials replaced? Or maybe a external hack?

Two easy solutions:

1) Autofire all day, every day, 1CC the game at max rank like a boss, become a shmup superstar.

2) Play something that isn't stupid.

Try slowing the autofire even more? There must be some kind of hz value where it's low enough that it doesn't register (or perhaps it checks for button pressing pattern consistency, in which case you'd need to hack in autofire somehow that doesn't press the buttons at the same interval all the time, maybe a detailed AutoHotkey rapid fire script could help). In Giga Wing, I use 8 autofire and still get max shot speed (which is handy because there's a few spots where slowdown happens, and any lower and your autofire will cause the reflect gauge to kick in).

Since trap is the master of all things arcade game code, I'm sure he could figure out exactly how the game is deciding to trigger it.

[trap15]

??? He's just autofiring through the name entry. There's nothing magical about it, it doesn't detect autofiring or anything. The rank from firing is super minimal anyways, and Gun Frontier is far from dumb. Learn about the game before you call it shit.

[M.Knight]

I tend to be a bit careful when writing my initials with autofire on, so i don't think it is the problem. Moreover, after reading your answer, I just tried not releasing the shot button when I died to test your theory and it put "AAA" in the ranking instead of "CNT".

I read in the French hi-score thread that a few players also had their initials changed to "CNT" as they used the autofire or button-mashed a lot.
That said, I am using the World version on MAME and the French players used the Western PC Taito Legends 2 version whereas the Japanese replay you showed in the STG Weekly episode uses a lot of autofire and does not have this problem. Maybe it is only in the Western version of the game? Guess I'll probably switch for the JP version if is the case.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Oh. I thought I read somewhere that rank maxed out really early on if Gun Frontier detected autofiring, I thought that's what was being referred to. So it really just inconveniences you by preventing you from entering your own initials? That's... a really weird thing to program into a game.

[M.Knight]

The wikipedia article about this game has a few words about this rank issue, you may have it read it from there.

Gun Frontier also employs an anti-autofire mechanism where the difficulty will max out by the second stage if the player is sustaining too fast of a fire rate.

That said, I don't know if it is reliable or not (given that it is Wikipedia), nor whether it is directly related to the initials thing.

I haven't played enough to notice the differences in rank but I could try some tests between the two versions. I'll also move on to the Japanese version for my regular runs and see if that CNT thing ever happens to me.
It seems indeed quite weird to program something like this in a game, that's why I wouldn't be surprised if it was a World version-only thing against autofiring because Western arcade operators were dissatisfied with the way it made a few games more mangeable or something like that.

[trap15]

Wikipedia is wrong about almost every arcade game either. The autofire rank thing has been a rumor forever, but when you actually play around with it the whole theory falls apart entirely. Rank is almost entirely score-based. You should watch the recent STGWeekly, I explain everything there is to know about this game.

I don't see anything odd about having the initials get filled when you use autofire, what else is it going to do? Detect you're using autofire and just not input any characters?

[Jeneki]

If you want to see some really silly autofire rank, try Sky Soldiers (arcade 1988). Tapping slowly, around 2 shots per second, the first boss can be killed on the first pass. Crank up some 30hz autofire and it takes around 20 passes to kill.

[rancor]

If you want to see some really silly autofire rank, try Sky Soldiers (arcade 1988).

Try it? That's trap15's favorite PCB!

[M.Knight]

Detect you're using autofire and just not input any characters?

Yep.
Maybe I was not previously clear enough but it indeed does not let me input any characters of my own, even though I can't say for sure if it is because of an hypothetical autofire detection, an emulation glitch or something else entirely.
If I try not to release the fire button and the CNT thing does not trigger, I get "AAA" instead, which makes sense.

I have already seen the informative STG Weekly episode when I first tried out the game two days ago so I have the game mechanics covered.

[LordHypnos]

Does anyone know any shmups that don't have enemy collision damage?

So far, my list includes Gold Runner (GBA), Guardian Force, Zero Gunner 2, Mars Matrix, Giga Wing 2, and Twin Hawk (because all enemies are ground based).

Also of interest are Gunbird, Gunbird 2, and possibly Dragon Blaze (though I can't remember) which power you down rather than killing you when you touch enemies, and Fast Striker, which depletes your shield stock (shields are basically bombs in this game) when you touch parts of the scenery that can damage you or enemies, and will only kill you if you have no shields left.

Also, I understand that Metal Slug (a run 'n gun) also lets you touch enemies with impunity

[Obscura]

Deathsmiles only takes half of a life on enemy collision, and Border Down just harmlessly creates sparkes on terrain collision unless you're truly determined to crash into the ground.

If you're looking for Metal Slug-ish "no death on enemy touch run 'n guns", most Valken clones are like that; try Gunhound EX, Gigantic Army, Assault Suits Valken, or Metal Warriors.

[Shepardus]

Adding to Obscura's mention of Deathsmiles, enemy collision damage is removed entirely when you're in power-up mode.

Touhou 12.8 (Fairy Wars) also has no enemy collision except with midbosses and bosses.

[LordHypnos]

Deathsmiles only takes half of a life on enemy collision, and Border Down just harmlessly creates sparkes on terrain collision unless you're truly determined to crash into the ground.

If you're looking for Metal Slug-ish "no death on enemy touch run 'n guns", most Valken clones are like that; try Gunhound EX, Gigantic Army, Assault Suits Valken, or Metal Warriors.

Yeah, this is definitely the kind of info that I'm interested in. I will say that I'm less interested in run 'n guns, but still interested for the sake of having a comprehensive list

Adding to Obscura's mention of Deathsmiles, enemy collision damage is removed entirely when you're in power-up mode.

Touhou 12.8 (Fairy Wars) also has no enemy collision except with midbosses and bosses.

What does "power up mode" mean? Or perhaps it's something that I would understand if I were actually familiar with the game.
As for GFW, that's kinda funny just 'cause it's like the opposite of most shmups where the bosses are ground based so do not harm you.
Thanks for the info!

Hopefully there are some more, too!

[Obscura]

Deathsmiles has a DOJ-esque "hyper mode" activated by holding both shot buttons when the item counter is maxed, which is what Shepardus is referring to.

[LordHypnos]

^Aha, that answers that. Also, I forgot earlier, but Kenta Cho's rRootage, Noiz2sa, Tumiki Fighters, and Parsec 47 all seem to allow you to touch enemies with impunity (or enemy in the case of rRootage).

[M.Knight]

Milestone shmups Radirgy, Illvelo and Karous do not have enemy collisions.
Maybe Chaos Field as well, but I am not 100% sure. Radirgy Noa defintely features enemy collision though.

[BulletMagnet]

IIRC all of the Strikers 1945 games do the "power down but no death" thing, though I'm not 100 percent sure. Both of the Vasara games also don't hurt you when you touch enemies, but you do bounce off them a bit, which can be hazardous when bullets are nearby.

EDIT: As you say, Giga Wing 2 doesn't have enemy collision...I THINK Generations does the same thing, but again, not totally sure.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Strania has bounce-away collision. You'll take a hit if you actively grind against something for too long, but you can bounce off walls/enemies without immediate damage you accidentally tap into them.

[Shepardus]

Hellsinker also has bounce-away collision for large enemies, and no collision death for small enemies. I believe Akashicverse also has bounce-away collision.

[LordHypnos]

Thanks all!
FWIW, with a few exceptions most of the "stage hazards" in Fast Striker are bounce-o-matic as well, and will only deplete your shields/kill you if you keep pushing up against them for too long (sounds like the way strania works too!) Exceptions are fairly obvious like the lasers in stage 3. Enemies though always deplete shields / kill you.
I tested Chaos Field in nullDC. It seems to run fullspeed on my comp, surprisingly, since Gunbird 2 and Mars Matrix both gets lots 'o slowdown once you get to busy enough parts. Then again, I didn't make it far in Chaos Field before dying, so it might get worse later. As far as I can tell the enemy contact doesn't kill you here. Also the music is pretty sweet.
Also tested Dragon Blaze, in MAME, and it works like the Gunbirds.
Also tried Vasara and Vasara 2 in MAME (not that they were in question), and they were surprisingly fun. i might actually play them further in the future.
I doubt I'd be able to emulate Taito Type X or PS2, so somebody else will have to confirm GWG, for me, but I'd be really surprised if they added the collisions back in.
Haven't yet tried to confirm any of the Strikers.

Thanks for the info, guys!

[Squire Grooktook]

Don't forget Aero Chimera, one of the coolest indie shmups that more people should be playing.

[Obscura]

Haven't yet tried to confirm any of the Strikers.

S1999 works like Dragon Blaze (and the Gunbird games, apparently, although I've never played the first one of those and barely played the second) -- power down on enemy contact.

Doesn't Sengoku Blade work the same way? It's been forever since I've played it.

[LordHypnos]

Don't forget Aero Chimera, one of the coolest indie shmups that more people should be playing.

Ooh thanks! I have played it before, but I forgot that it did that. It's so fucking hard though. holy shit. even on easy mode or whatever (default difficulty). Very fun game, nonetheless.

S1999 works like Dragon Blaze (and the Gunbird games, apparently, although I've never played the first one of those and barely played the second) -- power down on enemy contact.

Doesn't Sengoku Blade work the same way? It's been forever since I've played it.

I have actually never played Sengoku Blade. Pretty sure Sengoku Ace aerial enemies can kill you on contact. If I were to guess, though, I would guess that every Psikyo game between Gunbird (their second...?) and Dragon Blaze (which came out before Zero Gunner 2, IIRC) powers you down on contact, wheras ZG2 nothing happens. I'm not sure when Cannon Spike came out though (before or after dblaze in 2000), so that one's anyone's guess.

EDIT: Further investigation reveals that in Zero Gunner 2 aerial enemies bounce you off of them, except really small enemies that you pretty much just kill (I never stopped shooting). Also, the rotation mechanic is surprisingly natural feeling. Damn, I wish ZG2 didn't cost a kidney to get a legit copy of

[Squire Grooktook]

Sengoku Blade only powers you down on contact with enemies.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Have Ketsui's endings gotten a translation yet? I'm not sure if the A-Type true ending differs from the B-Type true ending, but here's the A-Type's ending for beating DOOM i n the Ura route, would be interested to know what it says: http://imgur.com/a/UyHF7

[CloudyMusic]

Yep! Here you go: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 3&start=30

[Shepardus]

In Crimzon Clover: World Ignition, is the value of stars calculated when they spawn, or when you collect them? For example, if your lock-on multiplier expires while the stars are in the air, do they still have the value with the lock-on multiplier, or not?

[trap15]

I'd assume it's on collection, but I can't guarantee that.

[Stevens]

EDIT: Further investigation reveals that in Zero Gunner 2 aerial enemies bounce you off of them, except really small enemies that you pretty much just kill (I never stopped shooting). Also, the rotation mechanic is surprisingly natural feeling. Damn, I wish ZG2 didn't cost a kidney to get a legit copy of

Just a bounce and a second or two where you can't shoot, no power down.

I traded my (small) Saturn collection for it:D, totally worth it.