Trizeal coming to dreamcast (not very long now :D))

[yojo!]

I liked XIIStag, and enjoy old style shooters more than today manics one. I pre-order 2 copies. Triangle may not produce high quality stuff today, but by supporting them now we provide them the opportunity to release great stuff tomorrow.

[angrycoder]

"You are having financial troubles? Bummer, sell me on your game, not your sob story. Put out a press release annoucing the coming of Trizeal. Show people why the should care about your game. Load your site with screenshots and movies showing off the best parts of your game. Find a friend who speaks english and have him translate your site. Get on message boards and try to drum up support for your game - talk to people - answer their questions - show them why they should care that you are going out of business..

Basically his press release is shit. According to it you should buy Trizeal because the developer is broke, not because it is a great game."

You would feel differently if you were the one facing unemployment. Especially unemployment in Japan, where shame is a BIG part of the culture. I remember 7 or 8 years ago when Japan's economy was at it's worst; men who were unemployed still left their apartments every day in business suits because they were too ashamed to tell their wives that they'd lost their jobs. A lot of them committed suicide. So coming from a context like that, I hardly think it's fair to say that Triangle Service's press release is "shit".

Don't judge someone like that until you've taken a good long walk in their shoes.

And TF, I'm not trying to start an argument about boot discs, but to a certain degree, NONE of them are legitimate. For cryin' out loud the DC-X says pirate on the actual disc! And all boot discs, no matter what the console, can be used to play illegitmate copies of games.

Jesus dave, talk about missing the fucking point.

I understand people have finacial troubles. Its very niave and condecending of you to assume that myself or anyone else is unable to sympathize with someone who has fallen on hard times. I am sure many of us here have hit a wall in our lives, myself included. I for one don't need to talk a walk in anyone's shoes.

My point was, if you game is not getting the attention you feel it warrents - push the game - not your sob story.

It shouldn't be 'buy my game or I'll go under...'

It should be 'buy my game because i think you will enjoy it, here's why: <insert features>, <insert screenshots>, <insert videos>, etc...'

[Blue Lander]

So, what if (for the sake of this discussion) Compile had given the same "sob story" and pleaded for everyone to pre-order ZanacXZanac? Given, you're aware of how classic M.U.S.H.A and the entire Aleste series is...Would you pre-order it? And given you probably know it's no DoDonPachi or Dragon Blaze - actually more like the Triangle stuff in that it preserves the era. Would you gripe at Compile and scorn their tactics?

You mean, if Compile tried to convince me to buy a game to save their company? Well yeah, I'd do that. Compile's made a ton of classic games. Triangle Service has made XIISTAG. I'm convinced saving Compile would be a good thing. I'm not convinced saving Triangle Service is a good thing, but I've given them the benefit of the doubt. What if they're just no good at making shmups?

I think that it would be a given that they believe that the game is 'decent.'

Really? For one, it's failed in the Japanese arcades. There's lots of reasons why an arcade game might not do well, but it's at least possible that it didn't do well because people didn't want to play it. Two, I haven't seen a single positive comment about the game from anybody who's actually played it. Everyone who's played it either hates it or is indifferent towards it. What conclusion are they supposed to draw? Sure, people have different tastes in games. We're never going to all agree on if a game is good or not. But what conclusion am I supposed to draw when nobody likes it? Triangle Service would be better served getting some positive feedback out to us before they ask us to help save their company.

[icepick]

"They," as in "the company." This was primarily directed at those whom have the idea that somehow Triangle Service themselves think that their game is bad, which I doubt is the case.

That's a very good point, about not having heard anything positive from anyone that's actually played the game. Even XII Stag receives some minor praise every now and then, but: Did anyone say that they liked it (or at least "didn't mind it") before it was released for the PS2? I'm thinking not.

This point doesn't necessarily win anything in Trizeal's favor, though. XII Stag was apparently... "lackluster," $60 is a lot of money to gamble, and the world isn't ending anytime soon. I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't trying to get anyone to pre-order the game, but, it's moreso that I'm wanting people to understand that Triangle Service is not crying us a river, nor should they be (unfairly) compared to the likes of games like Ibara and Homura (the latter of which I think looks sweet, by the way).

I agree that some good word-of-mouth would go a long way, but, perhaps there's something against listing testimonials in Japanese culture. Maybe it's seen as self-gratifying, thus explaining why the S.O.S. page simply tries to express their hopes and dreams (and dedication of service).

[Nemo]

Too many people are looking at this guy's comments as, "my game sucks but buy it anyway to support me," when in reality what he's saying is, "I put a lot of effort and money into this project just to have it not noticed in the arcades because it's not Cavemanicpachi 3 (I love Cave btw ), and now I'm releasing this on the DC as a way to give it another chance at recognition and support." He obviously believes he made a quality product or he wouldn't risk losing even more money by porting it to the DC and having it flop.

[umi]

That developer's "sob story" echoed everything I thought about buying shmups for the DC in general. The DC is a shmupper's heaven at the moment, anyone who has the money and doesn't support its current shmup releases, is, well... I won't say anymore, but I see it as an ethical obligation. All these sweet shmups, with easy portage straight to DC -- how can people not see that the DC is a goldmine? Yet half the users here seem to want to abandon it? It boggles the mind. Hell, I have very little time to spend with any games at all these days, yet I still preorder every DC shmup, because I know I'll spend quality time with each one eventually, and I want to support the system. In fact, I'm getting someone to order me second copies of Trizeal and Chaos Field this week from segadirect (I want those soundtrack cd's :P).

As for the game... those videos look pretty damn sweet, a lot better than just seeing the screenshots. It looks incredibly oldschool, and TS should be commended for that, at the very least. It also looks very easy, but rest assured when I play it I'll be maxing out the difficulty level. Some of the ship designs are actually very cool, don't dismiss the game as bland before you've even seen 10% of it. I will comment on that battle ship level and the space station though, it's very Raystorm-reminiscent, which is cool... also the way some of those planes dive/ascent into shooting range. A bit of a Gigawing influence in the ship design too. :P Finally, the music kicks ass! And that's one of the most important elements for me in a shmup! It's like 8-bit shmup on steroids...

p.s. Am I the only one who thinks that mech at the end of the stageall video is crossing his legs?

[Neon]

I have the money and haven't supported it since I bought psyvariar 2. Nothing worthwhile after that. Shiki 2 is average and chaos field is terrible.

Maybe if one of you kiddoes wants to loan me one of your spare copies after the game is released, I'll see if it's worthwhile. I still have an open mind towards it, I'm just not gonna preorder it based on the demo's.

[dave4shmups]

"Its very niave and condecending of you to assume that myself or anyone else is unable to sympathize with someone who has fallen on hard times. I am sure many of us here have hit a wall in our lives, myself included. I for one don't need to talk a walk in anyone's shoes.

My point was, if you game is not getting the attention you feel it warrents - push the game - not your sob story. "

I never said, much less assumed, that you (or anyone else on this board, for that matter) were unable to be sympathetic. But all your "spare me the sob story" talk made your post sound pretty unsympathetic. And if you can't respond to someone's opinion without resorting to foul language, don't bother responding.

Triangle Service IS pushing the game, that's why they have put movies up recently. And if they're in financial dire straits, then I don't see anything wrong at all with them also making an appeal to fans of the shmup genre like ourselves to buy this game.

This year is indeed shaping up to be a good year for shmups, but the genre is still a long way from being mainstream, and we need all the shmup developers we can get.

[Neon]

That developer's "sob story" echoed everything I thought about buying shmups for the DC in general. The DC is a shmupper's heaven at the moment, anyone who has the money and doesn't support its current shmup releases, is, well... I won't say anymore, but I see it as an ethical obligation. All these sweet shmups, with easy portage straight to DC -- how can people not see that the DC is a goldmine? Yet half the users here seem to want to abandon it? It boggles the mind. Hell, I have very little time to spend with any games at all these days, yet I still preorder every DC shmup, because I know I'll spend quality time with each one eventually, and I want to support the system. In fact, I'm getting someone to order me second copies of Trizeal and Chaos Field this week from segadirect (I want those soundtrack cd's ).

You know, it has been abandoned by every developer that made it great in the first place...

[Blue Lander]

First off, let me say I did preorder Trizeal when I read the "SOS." I was on the fence about Trizeal before I read it, and it was the deciding factor in me preordering it. Here's my logic.

Buying a decent shmup is worth 20 dollars to me. If I saw Trizeal on the shelf at Gamestop for the PS2 or something, looked at the screenshots on the back, I'd be willing to shell out 20 bucks for it. It doesn't have to be the second coming, it just has to be decent. After looking at movies and screenshots, it looks like I'll get exactly 20 dollars of enjoyment out of it.

Completing my Dreamcast shmup collection is worth 10 dollars to me. I like having (almost) all the Dreamcast shmups. The shelf space that this CD case will take up in my collection is worth 10 dollars alone.

Love for the Dreamcast is worth another 10 bucks to me. I like the Dreamcast, I like SEGA. Is it silly to be loyal to a piece of electronics? Probably, but that's the way it is.

Promoting more NAOMI shmups getting home ports is worth another 10 bucks to me. I want to play home versions of games like Senko no Ronde, and I don't care what system they get ported to. But since it's most likely a Dreamcast port is all small developers can afford, I want them to see that the Dreamcast market is still alive. If Trizeal does well, maybe we'll see more NAOMI home ports. So I'm willing to pay $10 as a downpayment on future NAOMI ports.

And finally, helping out poor Triangle Service is worth another 10 bucks to me if they're a decent developer. He's a shmupper like the rest of us, he's doing this out of his own pocket out of love for the genre, and I think that's great. If he had asked for donations to keep Triangle Service afloat, I would have been happy to paypal him 10 bucks.

Add all of that togeather and you get 60 bucks, which is what I'm willing to pay for this game. But I can totally relate to other people need more convincing before throwing down 60 dollars on a game that we have no positive first hand accounts of.

[Blue Lander]

Too many people are looking at this guy's comments as, "my game sucks but buy it anyway to support me," when in reality what he's saying is, "I put a lot of effort and money into this project just to have it not noticed in the arcades because it's not Cavemanicpachi 3 (I love Cave btw ), and now I'm releasing this on the DC as a way to give it another chance at recognition and support." He obviously believes he made a quality product or he wouldn't risk losing even more money by porting it to the DC and having it flop.

After reading the letter again, I disagree. He barely mentions Trizeal, and the only reason he gives us for buying it is to help keep Triangle Service alive. He spends 50% of the time talking about XIISTAG and Project Lambda! How good Trizeal is or how it deserved to do better in the arcade isn't the subject of the letter, it's about him and his company and the other games he's worked on.

[dave4shmups]

I couldn't agree more Blue Lander. And after having played XII Stag, I think that Triangle Service is a great shmup developer.

As far as evidence or feedback goes, anyone can now download those Trizeal videos from Click Stick. It's pretty evident from those vids what kind of shmup Trizeal is, it's old-school in it's gameplay, but has high-res graphics.

In other words, there's plent of evidence in the videos; after viewing them one only has to decide whether or not one wants to pay $60 for a shmup with old-school gameplay. If you don't then fine, but don't call this game a piece of crap because it's an old-school style shmup.

If people are going to complain about every shmup home port we get, we may not get too many more, and we may as well change our URL to www.gripeandwhine.com.

[Ord]

I've played Trizeal in the arcades and i was....bored. I actually left the cab before my credit was up. There were just FAR more intresting games to play, so i did.
Having said that i've already pre-orderd the DC version. Why? To add to my complete DC collection (Sad collector at heart but I really like SNS2, Psyvariar 2 & Chaos Field) , and hope that it shows that there is still some profit in the DC and that Senko No Ronde gets a release.
I Know that i'll only play Trizeal a couple of times and then put it away, but i can live with that.

[Neon]

Completing my Dreamcast shmup collection is worth 10 dollars to me. I like having (almost) all the Dreamcast shmups. The shelf space that this CD case will take up in my collection is worth 10 dollars alone.

Love for the Dreamcast is worth another 10 bucks to me. I like the Dreamcast, I like SEGA. Is it silly to be loyal to a piece of electronics? Probably, but that's the way it is.

Good God. That's it for me and this thread...

[TVG]

g-rev isnt exactly a small developper (not in the same sense as triangle service at least)
they work with taito, konami and treasure.
senko no ronde isnt exactly a low budgeer shmup either, just watching the vids made me drool.

so, if it turns out as a DC excusive, id be pissed off, because for a VS game, such release would kill in the egg any chance for me to find decent competition (i dunno, it just seems more of a fighting game than a shmup to me :p)
i dont think they're dumb enough to make it anyway, because it would simply be a dumb commercial move, senko = selling potential.

as for this topic, dave4 is just plain dense, some people are silly and others are desillusional, so im done. if you want to read my impressions on the subject go read the topic on click-stick.

just a final note about XII stag to the person comparing it to r-type, r-type gives me incentive to learn the levels by being fun at basic levels, XII stag does not. thats a major mistake triangle service did, but i can understand, being their first shmup and all.

[icepick]

I've played Trizeal in the arcades and i was....bored. I actually left the cab before my credit was up. There were just FAR more intresting games to play, so i did.

That sounds disturbingly familiar. Did you post that a couple of months ago, after Trizeal was released into arcades? And, if I might ask; Which other games were those?

Maybe if one of you kiddoes wants to loan me one of your spare copies after the game is released, I'll see if it's worthwhile.

Sure thing, pops.

Well, it seems almost that this too-long discussion is ending too soon! I'm not sure; Maybe I thought that it would go on forever. Everyone pretty much knows what they're going to do; The cards are on the table, and I can hear the combo meters buzzing in deep thought. I think that I might do some of that myself, thank you very much.

PS- Actually, I thought that he/it was sitting with his/its legs crossed, too. Very awkward, the way that he/it gets "ready."

[Ord]

I've played Trizeal in the arcades and i was....bored. I actually left the cab before my credit was up. There were just FAR more intresting games to play, so i did.

That sounds disturbingly familiar. Did you post that a couple of months ago, after Trizeal was released into arcades? And, if I might ask; Which other games were those? [quote+"icepick"]

Nah i experienced Trizeal about a month ago. It was in the same room as Raiden III, Mushimesama, Ketsui, Armed Police Batrider, Ikaruga, Psyvariar 2, Dimahoo etc. Trizeal was at the bottom of the heap, but hey i had to try it right?

[Thunder Force]

I would love to play an official port of those games on a console (or in arcades!). Maybe that'll happen someday, if these douijin shmups are given the same treatment

Interestingly, last year Xbox Live started offering the western equivalent of douijin (indie) games including shmups as official Xbox downloadable games via Xbox Live. In my view the important of doujin/indie games is slowly but surely growing.

what kind of games were downloadable and where can i download them off the xbox? i never heard of any shmups for downloadable games via xbox live..

Here is the link
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/livearcade/games.htm

The doujin/indie shmups on offer by this Xbox Live service are:

Alien Sky
Guardian
Mutant Storm

I've played Trizeal in the arcades and i was....bored. I actually left the cab before my credit was up.

Funny... this happens to me what I play Dragon Blaze in Mame. But do I make a big deal about what games I don't enjoy? No, maybe I'll mention on occasion that I prefer Dragon Breed but that's it. Because I prefer to focus on talking about the games I do enjoy. Because obviously others love Dragon Blaze so good for them, and why should I be provocative towards them by posting that it sucks?

My point here isn't aimed at you, but in general at other people on message boards who are so self-obsessed that they feel the need to shout at the top of their lungs over and over again that a game and/or developer sucks simply because they can't get into it.

For the record XII Stag is not bad when played with a proper arcade stick, so Triangle Service have nothing to be ashamed of in their work to date, and some of the hostility towards them here is unfair.

TF, I'm not trying to start an argument about boot discs, but to a certain degree, NONE of them are legitimate. For cryin' out loud the DC-X says pirate on the actual disc! And all boot discs, no matter what the console, can be used to play illegitmate copies of games.

The DC-X I linked to is legitimate and does not boot pirated games, as far as I know. Are you sure you're thinking of the same disc?

[Ord]

I've played Trizeal in the arcades and i was....bored. I actually left the cab before my credit was up.

Funny... this happens to me what I play Dragon Blaze in Mame. But do I make a big deal about what games I don't enjoy? No, maybe I'll mention on occasion that I prefer Dragon Breed but that's it. Because I prefer to focus on talking about the games I do enjoy. Because obviously others love Dragon Blaze so good for them, and why should I be provocative towards them by posting that it sucks?

My point here isn't aimed at you, but in general at other people on message boards who are so self-obsessed that they feel the need to shout at the top of their lungs over and over again that a game and/or developer sucks simply because they can't get into it.

For the record XII Stag is not bad when played with a proper arcade stick, so Triangle Service have nothing to be ashamed of in their work to date, and some of the hostility towards them here is unfair.

I'm glad it wasn't aimed at me. No really i am. If a company makes a poor game i see nothing wrong with people talking about it. By all means try the game out for yourselves, but i think it's good to hear others first hand experiences with the game. I didn't not like Trizeal, because it's cool to knock Triangle Service, i didn't like it because it looked, played and felt poor. Get a bloody grip! All shooters can't be great because it happens to be in a genre that's not very popular at the moment.

And for the record i found XII stag to be an enjoyable game too.

[Thunder Force]

If a company makes a poor game i see nothing wrong with people talking about it. By all means try the game out for yourselves, but i think it's good to hear others first hand experiences with the game.

I agree and was alluding to people who haven't played it dissing it already even before the first movie clips were released, and some of whom probably haven't even played any Triangle Service games but feel happy to already pass judgment on the future of this shmup developer and let them perish. I swear some comments even sounded like they were morally offended that a developer dare ask them for help. Well guess what folks, if shmups community forums like this don't stick up for underdog developers that are passionate about the genre, then who will (answer: Nobody - and we'll lose another niche developer to the unforgiving business-driven market)

[Super Laydock]

If a company makes a poor game i see nothing wrong with people talking about it. By all means try the game out for yourselves, but i think it's good to hear others first hand experiences with the game. I didn't not like Trizeal, because it's cool to knock Triangle Service, i didn't like it because it looked, played and felt poor. Get a bloody grip! All shooters can't be great because it happens to be in a genre that's not very popular at the moment.

And for the record i found XII stag to be an enjoyable game too.

Well that actually is one of the more respectable posts on this issue since YOU at least HAVE played it.

But since I like what I see in the vids/screens, love the DC to play games on and am moved by the SOS I will support the game anyway. That and a love for a shmup is very personal, so I'll have to find out myself whether it's my thing or not.
Mars Matrix and Ikaruga, both highly acclaimed, weren't my thing while Chaos Field is...

[Neon]

My point here isn't aimed at you, but in general at other people on message boards who are so self-obsessed that they feel the need to shout at the top of their lungs over and over again that a game and/or developer sucks simply because they can't get into it.

LOL, you guys need to lighten up sometimes. Self-obsessed? If you were better than everyone, you would be too dude.

I'll try the game after it's released. If it's good, then it's worthy of our support and I'll buy it. If it sucks, may the company be destroyed, and the employees sentenced to boring non-shmup related jobs the rest of their lives.

that is all.

[gs68]

I'm changing my mind now, according to the people who have played Trizeal, it sucks. I'm considering getting Border Down instead.

[BrianC]

I'm going to do a wait and see with the game. It's not one I just want to go out and buy. I do like some games like Twinbee NES/Famicom Mini, Sonic Adventure DX, Star Solider, the Genesis Forgotten Worlds, and a few others that are generally panned by critics, though. However, when a game is 50 dollars or more, I think it's a good idea to know a great deal about exactly what you are buying. I would gladly pay 100 dollars for something like Zanac X Zanac since I had good experince with Compile's other games and know a great deal about the game, but the Genesis port of Twin Cobra, which sells for cheap, isn't welcome in my house.

[CMoon]

I'm changing my mind now, according to the people who have played Trizeal, it sucks. I'm considering getting Border Down instead.

I think Border Down is a great example of a game people originally had mixed feelings about. I really thought for a while this one was a dog. After llabnip showed it to me I still had mixed feelings put picked it up anyway. For some reason it took a while and suddenly I realized how great it was--one of the best on the DC! Perhaps it is taking a long time for people to warm up trizeal? Thr track record to me says 'no', but we'll see.

[Stormwatch]

After seeing that video, I must say: if this guy is forced out of the game business, he can always work as an editor for Michael Bay's movies. Cut cut cut cut cut cut cut!

[Fighter17]

but the Genesis port of Twin Cobra, which sells for cheap, isn't welcome in my house.

Twin Cobra for the Sega Genesis is one of my favorite games, and that's one of the shoot 'em up games that make me a shoot 'em up lover today.

[Ord]

[quote="BrianC"but the Genesis port of Twin Cobra, which sells for cheap, isn't welcome in my house.

Twin Cobra for the Sega Genesis is one of my favorite games, and that's one of the shoot 'em up games that make me a shoot 'em up lover today. [/quote]

And this is the crux of the thing. Someone else stated that shooters are a deeply personal thing. There is no doubt in my mind that some people are going to find Trizeal to be the best shooter on the DC, whilst others will think it's a big pile of crap. And this is what i love about this genre, however you've got to try it to find out. Right?

[BrianC]

[quote="BrianC"but the Genesis port of Twin Cobra, which sells for cheap, isn't welcome in my house.

Twin Cobra for the Sega Genesis is one of my favorite games, and that's one of the shoot 'em up games that make me a shoot 'em up lover today. [/quote]

I liked it the first couple times I played it and then I tried the arcade and TG-16 ones, which seem to run a bit smoother with a bit more room to manuver.

I tried the game again and I was still not impressed by the port. It does run smoothly and the music is great, but there just isn't enough screenspace. Don't get me wrong, I love Twin Cobra, but I just couldn't get in to the Genesis port of it. I didn't notice any of the slowdown that dave4shmups was talking about in it, though.

[dave4shmups]

I played it Twin Cobra again on a Genesis emulator recently, and didn't notice any slowdown either. Guess my memory wasn't too good on that one, but I hadn't played the game since middle school.

The bottom line with tastes in shmups, as I see it, has to do with video games being an art form-graphical arts. So, then, if people have different tastes in other areas of art, it should stand to reason that they will have different tastes in graphical art. For instance, there are some people on this site who don't like shmups with polygons, and some who perfer polygonal high-res. shmups.

In any case, I wasn't trying to offend anyone by my comments on the unemployment potentially facing the people who make up Triangle Service. We do indeed all hit walls in our lives; it just seems very callous to me to refer to the wall being faced by Triangle Service as "a sob story."