Exactly.Shepardus wrote:Let me guess, default stage order and you're getting killed by the big carriages with a bunch of turrets on them?
I'll try following your advices and see how that goes. Thanks for the tips!
13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I'll try following your advices and see how that goes. Thanks for the tips!
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Square_Air
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Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
That's not very attitude for gains...Plasmo wrote: I don't think anyone would put Silvergun over Ikaruga. The hierarchy is pretty clear here.
I never understood the stigma of Ikaruga being a "puzzle shmup". It just seems like a very vague buzzword with no real substance to it since all STGs are puzzles. Dismissing the game as "dot eater" is a little more descriptive, but is still only a surface level observation that doesn't hold much more weight than "I don't like what I am not familiar with". At least the discourse surrounding Radiant Silvergun actually mentions the scoring mechanics before someone inevitably goes "Overly ambitious, drawn out, and pretentious 7 weapon boss rush clusterfuck".monouchi wrote:This.Strikers1945guy wrote: Almost anything blows dot eater out of the water
Puzzle shmup...
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Squire Grooktook
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Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
There is some truth in the "puzzle shmup" claim, given the way the game punishes shooting the wrong things in the wrong order and the somewhat static nature of many stages.
But it's not any more of a puzzle shmup then...say, many Irem shmups, which also have a number of memorization gimmicks. Or many Psikyo shmups which are just as static and punishing when not memorized properly.
You don't see those games being constantly lambasted for being puzzle shmups*.
And while Ikaruga does have some of those elements, it also has a few extremely tense rng reflex segments, particularly the final battle which is an incredible gauntlet of chaos. So yeah, a strong puzzle element, but it's certainly still an action game first and foremost.
*
But it's not any more of a puzzle shmup then...say, many Irem shmups, which also have a number of memorization gimmicks. Or many Psikyo shmups which are just as static and punishing when not memorized properly.
You don't see those games being constantly lambasted for being puzzle shmups*.
And while Ikaruga does have some of those elements, it also has a few extremely tense rng reflex segments, particularly the final battle which is an incredible gauntlet of chaos. So yeah, a strong puzzle element, but it's certainly still an action game first and foremost.
*
Spoiler
Well, not everyone likes them, but it isn't the same kind of universal talking point that gets brought up every time.
Aeon Zenith - My STG.RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................
Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
But all good shmups are secretly puzzle games anyways, it's just Ikaruga makes it more apparent.
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Squire Grooktook
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Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
A shmup can have rng elements that force you to react and improvise though. That's actually my favorite part. The best games (in any genre) are the ones that have a dynamic balance of strategy and improvisation IMO.
Aeon Zenith - My STG.RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................
Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I never liked the argument that shmups are like puzzle games, because it ignores the nontrivial aspect of execution. Just because you know what you're going to do doesn't mean you're going to do it. Even superplayers can mess up their execution - the Matmouse stream is proof of that. It also glosses over the role of RNG. Ikaruga makes its "puzzle-like" aspects more apparent than most shooters do because its polarity mechanic is clearly something you have to "figure out" and wrap your head around, but it's still got a significant execution factor to it. I'd argue that Radiant Silvergun is actually more "puzzle-like" thanks to its slower pace and how you need to figure out which weapons are appropriate for each part.
People call Ikaruga a puzzle shmup because when they die they realize "oh, I didn't figure out how to use the polarity mechanic properly here, I see it's like a puzzle!" while when they die in other shmups they think "I didn't have good enough reactions."
People call Ikaruga a puzzle shmup because when they die they realize "oh, I didn't figure out how to use the polarity mechanic properly here, I see it's like a puzzle!" while when they die in other shmups they think "I didn't have good enough reactions."
Last edited by Shepardus on Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
People only call it that because the enemies are color coded.
...like Dr Mario, Puzzle Bobble or countless other puzzle games where shit is color coded. People have made a sub conscious association and are having trouble putting their finger on exactly what about ikarua is puzzly. That's it.
...like Dr Mario, Puzzle Bobble or countless other puzzle games where shit is color coded. People have made a sub conscious association and are having trouble putting their finger on exactly what about ikarua is puzzly. That's it.
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Not because enemies, but because it forces you to switch your colour here and there. And you must memorize where you must be white or black
I would agree that Ika feels more like killing stuff than RSgun where you are methodically switching weapons for every different part of stage.
I would agree that Ika feels more like killing stuff than RSgun where you are methodically switching weapons for every different part of stage.
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Legendary Hoamaru
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Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Squire Grooktook wrote:A shmup can have rng elements that force you to react and improvise though. That's actually my favorite part. The best games (in any genre) are the ones that have a dynamic balance of strategy and improvisation IMO.
There are a ton of puzzle games that have an execution requirement though? I thought games like TTGM had RNG elements that tested your execution, same with puzzle games with PVP modes. All puzzle games aren't exactly static or give you a ton of time to think.Shepardus wrote:
Post subject: Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I never liked the argument that shmups are like puzzle games, because it ignores the nontrivial aspect of execution
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Squire Grooktook
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Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I think by puzzle games, they meant crate pushing puzzles and stuff. Think LoLo or Zelda puzzles or whatever. If anything Tetris's randomized pieces means there's little comparable concept of routing/memorization.
Aeon Zenith - My STG.RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................
Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
The full results have been prepared. Like usual, platforms and names are mainly noted based on voter mentions unless more specification is necessary.
+ New column for HM's whee
+ New column for HM's whee
Code: Select all
###. Game Name Total Score|Votes|HMs|Vote Weight Total
Top 25:
001. Battle Garegga (ARC/SAT) : 8.097129 45 1 2.484505
002. Ketsui ~Kizuna Jigoku Tachi~ : 7.979452 42 3 2.494137
003. Mushihimesama Futari / 1.5 / Black Label (360/ARC) : 6.982388 34 1 2.304271
004. DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou Black Label / White Label : 6.958410 39 1 2.121478
005. Armed Police Batrider : 5.650081 34 3 1.605513
006. Crimzon Clover / World Ignition (PC/NESiCA) : 5.503979 31 4 1.618049
007. DoDonPachi (SAT) : 5.498079 35 1 1.529690
008. RayForce/Layer Section/Galactic Attack (ARC/SAT) : 4.370300 29 0 1.189204
009. Raiden Fighters Jet (360) : 4.065874 27 0 1.105680
010. Ikaruga (PC) : 3.982213 24 1 1.149364
011. Mushihimesama / 1.5 (PC) : 3.799671 23 1 1.092473
012. Gradius V : 3.758699 21 0 1.157450
013. Ibara : 3.131402 17 0 0.981203
014. R-Type (ARC/PSX/SMS) : 3.100549 20 0 0.863313
015. Batsugun / Batsugun Special (SAT) : 3.053161 23 2 0.703010
016. ESPGaluda (PS2) : 3.023647 19 2 0.824953
017. Radiant Silvergun (SAT) : 3.012657 17 1 0.904886
018. Muchi Muchi Pork! : 2.913645 15 2 0.906746
019. Eschatos (PC) : 2.898882 19 1 0.779800
020. Darius Gaiden (SAT/ARC) : 2.898410 20 1 0.745398
021. Darius Burst: Another Chronicle / EX / Saviours : 2.875622 16 1 0.870696
022. Mars Matrix : 2.875058 19 2 0.750832
023. Strikers 1945 II : 2.812368 17 1 0.804977
024. Gradius Gaiden : 2.771452 14 2 0.869982
025. Dragon Blaze : 2.731304 18 3 0.696207
Honorable Mention:
026. Thunder Force IV / Lightening Force (MD) : 2.597367 16 2 0.714811
027. Battle Bakraid : 2.511614 18 0 0.637869
028. Gunbird 2 (DC) : 2.431671 17 3 0.580908
029. Soukyugurentai / Terra Diver (SAT) : 2.353573 16 0 0.627367
030. Raiden DX : 2.316889 16 1 0.591984
031. Progear no Arashi : 2.265264 14 0 0.651648
032. Dangun Feveron : 2.215674 17 0 0.524412
033. ESPGaluda II : 2.134119 15 0 0.552063
034. Perfect Cherry Blossom [Touhou 7] : 2.106953 13 1 0.589762
035. Deathsmiles / Mega Black Label : 2.079425 17 0 0.456448
036. DoDonPachi Saidaioujou (360) : 2.033783 14 2 0.502013
037. ESP Ra.De. : 1.995955 14 1 0.500226
038. Imperishable Night [Touhou 8] : 1.987324 14 1 0.495921
039. Dimahoo / Great Mahou Daisakusen : 1.978068 11 2 0.576719
040. Guwange : 1.957709 14 2 0.464065
041. R-Type Delta : 1.941138 13 0 0.524132
042. Gradius II: Gofer no Yabou (ARC/NES/SAT/PSX) : 1.837379 12 1 0.489457
043. Strikers 1945 III / Strikers 1999 : 1.824608 14 1 0.414754
044. DonPachi (SAT) : 1.808800 12 1 0.475201
045. Raiden Fighters 2 : 1.767917 13 1 0.420641
046. Cho Ren Sha 68K (X68) : 1.737761 13 2 0.388515
047. DoDonPachi Daifukkatsu / 1.5 / Resurrection : 1.703711 09 1 0.525278
048. Border Down : 1.662970 10 1 0.470789
049. Under Defeat (DC) : 1.649818 12 0 0.412979
050. Giga Wing (DC) : 1.528921 12 0 0.352673
051. Einhänder : 1.477383 11 2 0.326964
052. Kamui : 1.470238 10 3 0.340483
053. Salamander 2 : 1.428458 09 1 0.387974
054. Thunder Dragon 2 : 1.393188 08 0 0.421630
055. Pink Sweets : 1.382124 09 0 0.381945
The Rest:
056. Judgement Silversword (PC) : 1.354298 09 0 0.368065
057. Flying Shark / Hishouzame / Sky Shark : 1.330626 08 2 0.356256
058. Super Aleste / Space Megaforce : 1.282932 09 0 0.332465
059. Musha Aleste / M.U.S.H.A. : 1.258061 08 1 0.337142
060. Raiden Fighters : 1.237233 09 0 0.309669
061. Mountain of Faith [Touhou 10] : 1.222914 09 0 0.302526
062. HellSinker : 1.220489 08 0 0.335483
063. Undefined Fantastic Object [Touhou 12] : 1.167679 09 2 0.240808
064. Akai Katana : 1.163731 09 0 0.273004
065. DoDonPachi Daifukkatsu Black Label : 1.134428 07 0 0.326720
066. Metal Black : 1.086632 08 1 0.251629
067. Great Fairy Wars [Touhou 12.8] : 1.081046 05 1 0.351341
068. Twinkle Star Sprites : 1.075230 07 1 0.280107
069. Salamander (ARC/PCE) / Life Force (ARC) : 1.060982 07 1 0.273000
070. Ibara Kuro / Black Label : 1.057682 06 0 0.322603
071. Twin Cobra / Kyukyoku Tiger : 1.032504 08 2 0.207545
072. G-Stream G2020 / DeltaZeal (360) : 1.026648 07 0 0.272956
073. Blazing Lazers / Gunhed : 1.020915 06 1 0.287179
074. Mahou Daisakusen / Sorcer Striker : 1.008247 07 2 0.229611
075. R-Type III: The Third Lightning : 1.002125 07 1 0.243640
076. G-Darius : 0.999696 06 1 0.276595
077. Strikers 1945 (SAT) : 0.995303 07 0 0.257320
078. Harmful Park : 0.972931 06 0 0.280327
079. Gokujou Parodius : 0.971380 06 2 0.245387
080. Embodiment of Scarlet Devil [Touhou 6] : 0.966400 07 0 0.242903
081. Ginga Force : 0.883928 04 1 0.287179
082. Shikigami no Shiro II : 0.869249 07 1 0.177358
083. 19XX: The War Against Destiny : 0.866769 07 0 0.193204
084. Raiden II : 0.853845 05 0 0.255090
085. Seisou Kouki Strania : 0.841057 07 0 0.180379
086. Psyvariar Revision (PS2) : 0.827599 06 0 0.207832
087. Subterranean Animism [Touhou 11] : 0.827238 06 0 0.207651
088. Shoot the Bullet [Touhou 9.5] : 0.819381 05 0 0.237898
089. Soldier Blade : 0.809201 04 2 0.232821
090. Gradius : 0.805753 06 1 0.179851
091. Thunder Force III : 0.796799 06 1 0.175385
092. Fantasy Zone II / II DX (System 16/PS2) : 0.787396 05 0 0.221944
093. Zanac Neo : 0.772235 05 2 0.180214
094. Cyvern: The Dragon Weapons : 0.769543 04 4 0.178872
095. ring^-27 : 0.764176 06 2 0.142028
096. Alltynex 2nd : 0.752272 05 2 0.170256
097. Phantasmagoria of Flower View [Touhou 9] : 0.742870 04 0 0.233899
098. Radirgy : 0.740831 05 1 0.181633
099. Fantasy Zone : 0.725906 05 0 0.191271
100. Giga Wing 2 : 0.712848 05 0 0.184757
101. Phantasmagoria of Dim.Dream [Touhou 3] : 0.695298 04 0 0.210169
102. Double Spoiler [Touhou 12.5] : 0.670756 04 0 0.197927
103. Recca [Summer Carnival '92] : 0.667015 06 2 0.093561
104. Raiden : 0.664778 04 1 0.177861
105. R-Type Leo : 0.664010 04 0 0.194561
106. Zanac (NES) : 0.662329 05 0 0.159557
107. Galaga '88 : 0.658321 05 1 0.140474
108. Mecha Ritz : 0.637081 04 2 0.146962
109. Air Gallet : 0.634963 04 1 0.162989
110. Bangai-O (N64/DC) : 0.621791 04 0 0.173501
111. Akai Katana Shin (360) : 0.620940 04 0 0.173077
112. Gun Frontier : 0.618639 05 0 0.137763
113. Image Fight : 0.614579 04 1 0.152821
114. OutZone : 0.609443 04 0 0.167342
115. Kingdom Grandprix / Shippu Mahou Daisakusen : 0.593821 05 0 0.125383
116. V-V [V-Five] : 0.586562 04 1 0.138845
117. Gun.Smoke (ARC) : 0.581901 05 0 0.119437
118. Pulstar : 0.581578 04 2 0.119276
119. Guardian Force : 0.580165 04 0 0.152737
120. Raiden IV / Overkill : 0.578688 04 0 0.152000
121. Gradius III (SNES) : 0.568766 05 1 0.095802
122. Cotton Boomerang : 0.566971 03 0 0.180322
123. Trizeal (DC) : 0.563327 04 0 0.144338
124. Kaikan : 0.557933 05 0 0.107481
125. Sexy Parodius : 0.541447 05 0 0.099257
126. Satazius : 0.540772 03 1 0.150170
127. Karous : 0.536512 03 0 0.165128
128. RefleX : 0.534812 04 0 0.130114
129. Zero Gunner 2 (DC) : 0.523932 04 0 0.124687
130. Thunder Force V (SAT) : 0.522908 03 1 0.141259
131. R-Type II : 0.521086 03 0 0.157433
132. Sengoku Blade : 0.513334 03 0 0.153566
133. Power Strike II (SMS) : 0.512964 04 0 0.119216
134. Darius / Extra : 0.506664 04 0 0.116073
135. Fire Shark / Same! Same! Same! : 0.503051 04 0 0.114271
136. Lords of Thunder / Winds of Thunder : 0.502521 04 1 0.096923
137. Space Invaders Extreme 2 : 0.495415 03 1 0.127545
138. Viper Phase 1 : 0.484256 03 1 0.121978
139. Galaga (NES) : 0.483053 03 0 0.138462
140. Battle Traverse : 0.481444 04 0 0.103492
141. Blue Wish Resurrection / Plus : 0.474714 04 1 0.083052
142. Twinkle Tale : 0.458745 03 0 0.126336
143. Raiden III : 0.455737 03 0 0.124835
144. Mamoru-kun wa Norowarete Shimatta! : 0.451468 03 0 0.122706
145. Triggerheart Exelica (DC) : 0.449449 03 1 0.104615
146. Axelay : 0.449130 05 0 0.053207
147. Flame Zapper Kotsujin : 0.443324 03 0 0.118643
148. Undeadline (MD) : 0.442959 03 0 0.118462
148. Kiki Kaikai: Nazo no Kuro Manto / Pocky & Rocky : 0.442959 03 0 0.118462
150. Shienryu : 0.438860 03 1 0.099333
151. GunNail : 0.431971 03 0 0.112980
152. In The Hunt : 0.431240 03 0 0.112615
153. Bio-Hazard Battle / Crying : 0.428948 03 1 0.094389
154. Revolver360 RE:ACTOR : 0.426581 03 1 0.093209
155. Gate of Thunder : 0.424775 03 1 0.092308
156. Parodius Da! : 0.423909 03 0 0.108959
157. Nexzr : 0.409741 02 1 0.118974
158. Chaos Field : 0.405943 03 0 0.099997
159. Gradius III (ARC) : 0.403889 03 1 0.081889
160. Xexex : 0.401570 03 1 0.080732
161. Robotron 2084 : 0.399420 02 0 0.130909
162. Mystic Square [Touhou 5] : 0.398895 03 1 0.079398
163. X-Multiply : 0.382744 03 0 0.088425
164. Vasara 2 : 0.382121 03 0 0.088114
165. Xevious : 0.379276 02 2 0.086694
166. Detana!! TwinBee : 0.377550 02 0 0.120000
167. Strikers 1945 Plus : 0.376909 01 0 0.153846
168. Phantasmagoria Trues : 0.369038 03 0 0.081588
169. RayCrisis / Series Termination : 0.364734 03 0 0.079441
170. Lotus Land Story [Touhou 4] : 0.364649 03 0 0.079398
171. Deathsmiles II / IIX : 0.364403 03 1 0.062193
172. Gunbird : 0.362771 03 0 0.078462
173. Hydorah : 0.362667 03 0 0.078409
174. Aero Fighters / Sonic Wings : 0.360715 03 0 0.077436
175. Dragon Spirit (PSX) : 0.359390 03 0 0.076775
176. Jikkyo Oshaberi Parodius (PSX/SAT) : 0.352877 02 0 0.107692
177. StellaVanity : 0.352368 03 0 0.073272
178. Gallop - Armed Police Unit : 0.345702 02 0 0.104113
179. Gradius IV : 0.337922 01 4 0.066066
180. Power Strike / Aleste (SMS/MSX) : 0.334372 02 0 0.098462
181. Aero Fighters 2 / Sonic Wings 2 : 0.332958 03 0 0.063590
182. Space Manbow : 0.327781 02 0 0.095173
183. Seirei Senshi Spriggan : 0.326148 02 0 0.094359
184. Dodonpachi II: Bee Storm : 0.323714 03 0 0.058979
185. FixEight : 0.323000 03 0 0.058623
186. Akkanvader / Space Invaders '95 : 0.315867 02 0 0.089231
187. Cotton: Fantastic Night Dreams (PCE/X68) : 0.313104 02 1 0.070769
188. Last Resort : 0.311422 02 1 0.069930
189. Radirgy Noa : 0.303531 02 0 0.083077
190. BioMetal : 0.295306 02 0 0.078974
191. Exzisus : 0.293167 02 0 0.077907
192. XOP Black / Ultra / Special : 0.288752 03 0 0.041538
193. Tatsujin / Truxton : 0.278985 03 0 0.036667
194. Mr. Heli no Daibouken : 0.275671 02 1 0.052097
195. Darius Twin : 0.274738 01 0 0.102881
196. Aero Chimera : 0.274723 02 2 0.034541
197. TwinBee Yahho! : 0.273773 02 0 0.068233
198. Hellfire (MD) : 0.272689 02 0 0.067692
198. Hyper Duel (SAT) : 0.272689 02 0 0.067692
200. Terra Cresta : 0.271717 02 0 0.067207
201. Elemental Master : 0.269219 02 2 0.031795
202. Seihou Banshiryuu : 0.265733 02 0 0.064222
203. Assault Android Cactus : 0.257991 02 0 0.060360
204. Mad Shark : 0.254595 02 0 0.058667
205. Zed Blade / Operation Ragnarok : 0.252360 02 1 0.040469
206. Granada (MD) : 0.248016 02 0 0.055385
207. Pink Sweets Arrange : 0.245900 01 0 0.088496
208. Akashicverse -Malicious Wake- : 0.245253 01 3 0.036923
209. Omega Fighter : 0.242876 02 0 0.052821
210. Varth: Operation Thunderstorm : 0.241848 02 0 0.052308
211. R-Type Final : 0.241510 02 0 0.052139
212. XII Stag / XIIZeal (PS2) : 0.234790 02 0 0.048787
213. Eden's Aegis : 0.234358 02 0 0.048571
214. Forgotten Worlds : 0.233623 02 0 0.048205
215. Crisis Force : 0.233489 01 0 0.082305
216. Impossible Spell Card [Touhou 14.3] : 0.230537 02 0 0.046666
217. Geometry Wars 3 : 0.229918 02 1 0.029274
218. Aleste 2 : 0.222701 01 0 0.076923
219. Geometry Wars 2 : 0.219938 01 1 0.058462
220. Guxt : 0.219147 02 0 0.040984
221. Ten Desires [Touhou 13] : 0.219113 02 0 0.040967
222. Shikigami no Shiro III : 0.214296 02 0 0.038564
223. Darius II (ARC) : 0.213062 02 0 0.037949
224. Every Extend Extra : 0.210364 01 0 0.070769
224. Exed Exes : 0.210364 01 0 0.070769
226. Psyvariar 2: The Will to Fabricate : 0.209493 02 0 0.036169
227. Omega Five : 0.209409 02 0 0.036127
228. Sky Kid : 0.208950 02 0 0.035897
229. Tyrian : 0.205801 01 0 0.068493
230. Cotton 2 : 0.204196 01 0 0.067692
231. Gemini Wing : 0.200294 02 1 0.014497
232. Robo Aleste : 0.198669 02 0 0.030769
232. Tempest 2000 (JAG) : 0.198669 02 0 0.030769
234. Hacha Mecha Fighter : 0.197489 02 0 0.030180
235. Silpheed (SCD) : 0.195846 02 0 0.029361
236. Cardinal Sins : 0.195264 01 1 0.046154
237. Andro Dunos : 0.193042 01 1 0.045045
238. Final Soldier : 0.189096 01 1 0.043077
239. Wing Force : 0.187979 01 0 0.059603
240. Gaiares : 0.187875 02 0 0.025385
241. Decimation X3 : 0.182928 01 1 0.040000
241. Daioh : 0.182928 01 1 0.040000
243. RayStorm : 0.179844 01 1 0.038462
244. Dogyuun : 0.179255 01 1 0.038168
245. eXceed 3rd - Jade Penetrate Black Package : 0.179109 01 1 0.038095
246. Explosive Breaker : 0.176855 01 0 0.054054
246. Gratia - Second Earth : 0.176855 01 0 0.054054
246. Xevious Arrangement : 0.176855 01 0 0.054054
249. Dangerous Seed : 0.175411 01 0 0.053333
250. The Guardian Legend : 0.173354 01 0 0.052308
251. R+R (X68) : 0.171298 01 0 0.051282
251. Star Soldier : 0.171298 01 0 0.051282
251. Nemesis '90 Kai : 0.171298 01 0 0.051282
254. Zangeki Warp : 0.170591 01 1 0.033846
255. Samidare : 0.167828 02 0 0.015385
256. Fast Striker (DC) : 0.167186 01 0 0.049231
256. Burning Dragon Plus : 0.167186 01 0 0.049231
258. Giga Wing Generations : 0.166890 01 1 0.032000
258. Storm Blade : 0.166890 01 1 0.032000
260. Apidya : 0.166763 01 0 0.049020
261. Ginga Fukei Densetsu: Sapphire : 0.161018 01 0 0.046154
261. 1943 Kai : 0.161018 01 0 0.046154
261. Thunder Cross : 0.161018 01 0 0.046154
264. Sky Adventure : 0.158795 01 0 0.045045
265. Jamestown : 0.158737 01 0 0.045016
266. DoDonPachi Daifukkatsu Black Label Arrange : 0.157197 01 0 0.044248
267. Z-Out : 0.156936 01 0 0.044118
268. RefRain: Prism Memories : 0.152086 01 1 0.024615
269. Leiria ~Stargazer~ : 0.148681 01 0 0.040000
269. Zen-Ichi : 0.148681 01 0 0.040000
269. Last Breakers : 0.148681 01 0 0.040000
269. Steel Empire : 0.148681 01 0 0.040000
269. Phantasm Romance : 0.148681 01 0 0.040000
269. Silver Millennium : 0.148681 01 0 0.040000
269. Rapid Hero : 0.148681 01 0 0.040000
276. Hitogata Happa : 0.144863 01 0 0.038095
276. Exzeal : 0.144863 01 0 0.038095
278. Gradius Galaxies : 0.143535 01 0 0.037433
279. Ordyne : 0.142513 01 0 0.036923
279. Space Bomber : 0.142513 01 0 0.036923
279. TwinBee : 0.142513 01 0 0.036923
282. Shooting Game Test / Shmup Skills Test : 0.139750 01 1 0.018462
283. Beamrider : 0.137282 01 0 0.034314
284. Blazing Star : 0.136986 00 4 0.000000
285. Vasara : 0.136345 01 0 0.033846
286. Final Boss : 0.135317 01 0 0.033333
287. Illvelo : 0.134715 01 0 0.033033
288. Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom [Touhou 15] : 0.134582 01 0 0.032967
288. Double Dealing Character [Touhou 14] : 0.134582 01 0 0.032967
288. Story of Eastern Wonderland [Touhou 2] : 0.134582 01 0 0.032967
291. Brave Blade : 0.132644 01 0 0.032000
291. Fire Barrel : 0.132644 01 0 0.032000
291. Thunder Blaster : 0.132644 01 0 0.032000
291. Noiz2sa : 0.132644 01 0 0.032000
291. Nomltest : 0.132644 01 0 0.032000
291. Parsec47 : 0.132644 01 0 0.032000
291. rRootage : 0.132644 01 0 0.032000
291. Shikigami no Shiro : 0.132644 01 0 0.032000
291. Star Parodier : 0.132644 01 0 0.032000
291. Tatsujin Oh : 0.132644 01 0 0.032000
291. Titanion : 0.132644 01 0 0.032000
291. Twin Cobra II : 0.132644 01 0 0.032000
291. Vimana : 0.132644 01 0 0.032000
291. Wyvern Wings : 0.132644 01 0 0.032000
305. Super Spacefortress Macross : 0.131704 01 0 0.031532
306. Tails Gear : 0.130176 01 0 0.030769
306. Gradius Rebirth : 0.130176 01 0 0.030769
306. Dragon Saber : 0.130176 01 0 0.030769
306. Score Rush / MP : 0.130176 01 0 0.030769
306. Soul Rage : 0.130176 01 0 0.030769
311. Sengoku Ace : 0.129830 01 1 0.013514
312. Sonic Wings Special : 0.127455 01 0 0.029412
313. Gundemonium Recollection : 0.125770 01 0 0.028571
314. Blue Sabers: Operation Orbital Hammer : 0.124008 01 0 0.027692
314. Super Fantasy Zone : 0.124008 01 0 0.027692
316. Wings (DOS) : 0.123416 01 0 0.027397
316. Wings 2 (PC) : 0.123416 01 0 0.027397
318. Sora : 0.121952 01 0 0.026667
318. Air Buster / Aero Blasters : 0.121952 01 0 0.026667
320. Star Force : 0.119896 01 0 0.025641
321. Gyruss (NES) : 0.117840 01 0 0.024615
321. Blast Wind : 0.117840 01 0 0.024615
323. Subterrania : 0.117655 01 0 0.024523
324. Astebreed : 0.115076 01 1 0.006154
324. Area 88 / U.N. Squadron (SNES) : 0.115076 01 1 0.006154
326. eXceed 3rd - Jade Penetrate : 0.113442 01 0 0.022422
327. Caladrius : 0.111671 01 0 0.021538
327. GundeadliGne : 0.111671 01 0 0.021538
327. Acrobat Mission : 0.111671 01 0 0.021538
327. Gridrunner (iOS) : 0.111671 01 0 0.021538
331. Battle Mania Daiginjou : 0.108908 01 1 0.003077
332. Valhellio : 0.108587 01 0 0.020000
332. Space Invaders : 0.108587 01 0 0.020000
334. Keio Yuugekitai / Keio Flying Squadron : 0.105503 01 0 0.018462
334. Gekirindan (SAT) : 0.105503 01 0 0.018462
334. TwinBee Da! : 0.105503 01 0 0.018462
337. Gaia Seed: Project Seed Trap : 0.104614 01 0 0.018018
338. Homura : 0.099335 01 0 0.015385
338. Rabio Lepus : 0.099335 01 0 0.015385
338. Moon Cresta (SNES) : 0.099335 01 0 0.015385
338. Gigandes : 0.099335 01 0 0.015385
342. Dark Fusion : 0.097974 01 0 0.014706
343. Abadox : 0.097132 01 0 0.014286
343. Wolflame : 0.097132 01 0 0.014286
345. eXceed 2nd - Vampire Rex : 0.095223 01 0 0.013333
345. Blade Buster : 0.095223 01 0 0.013333
347. Nostradamus : 0.095045 01 0 0.013245
348. Xeno Fighters R : 0.093166 01 0 0.012308
348. Thunder Force VI : 0.093166 01 0 0.012308
348. Uridium : 0.093166 01 0 0.012308
348. Mystic Riders : 0.093166 01 0 0.012308
352. Sturmwind : 0.088540 01 0 0.010000
352. Kokuga : 0.088540 01 0 0.010000
352. Tumiki Fighters : 0.088540 01 0 0.010000
352. Bangai-O HD: Missile Fury : 0.088540 01 0 0.010000
356. TxK : 0.087055 01 0 0.009259
357. Ashura Blaster : 0.086998 01 0 0.009231
357. Twin Hawk : 0.086998 01 0 0.009231
357. Vulgus : 0.086998 01 0 0.009231
360. Magical Singular Day -Absolution- : 0.085775 01 0 0.008621
361. DonPaccin : 0.084531 01 0 0.008000
362. Quantized Blaze : 0.084278 01 0 0.007874
362. Lilian Fourhand : 0.084278 01 0 0.007874
364. Prehistoric Isle 2 : 0.083914 01 0 0.007692
365. Suwako-chan Cubic : 0.081385 01 0 0.006431
366. Salamander / Life Force (NES) : 0.080830 01 0 0.006154
366. Time Pilot '84 : 0.080830 01 0 0.006154
366. Ketsui Death Label : 0.080830 01 0 0.006154
369. Dragon Breed : 0.079213 01 0 0.005348
370. Danmaku Unlimited 2 : 0.077364 01 0 0.004425
371. Sine Mora : 0.075836 01 0 0.003663
371. Space Phallus : 0.075836 01 0 0.003663
373. Cybattler : 0.074661 01 0 0.003077
373. Ryu Jin : 0.074661 01 0 0.003077
373. Phoenix : 0.074661 01 0 0.003077
373. Time Pilot : 0.074661 01 0 0.003077
373. Battle Squadron (Amiga) : 0.074661 01 0 0.003077
373. Magical Chase : 0.074661 01 0 0.003077
379. Ether Vapor : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. 1943: The Battle of Midway : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Gynoug / Wings of Wor : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Darius II (MD) : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Darius Force : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Kiki Kaikai (PCE) : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Rayxanber II : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Violent Soldier : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. 1941: Counter Attack : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Silver Surfer : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Bike Banditz : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Zenohell : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Shoot 1Up : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Imperium : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Bullet Soul: Infinite Burst : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. X2: No Relief : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Cyber Core : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Alzadick : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Zero Master Striker : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Xevious: Fardraut Saga : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Cotton 100% : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Youjyuden : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
379. Sonic Ironstorm : 0.034247 00 1 0.000000
Last edited by Nifty on Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Live to fly, fly to live, it's all very orthodox
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I'm shocked to see Blazing Star so low, and so lower than Pulstar. 
Hope Judgement Silversword and Metal Black will make it to top next time.
No votes for Yakouga/Galshell also
Hope Judgement Silversword and Metal Black will make it to top next time.
No votes for Yakouga/Galshell also
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royalfan84
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:24 pm
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Thunder Force IV nearly made the top 25!!!!
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EmperorIng
- Posts: 5068
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:22 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I too am always impressed at how close the middle-ranging games (in the 2.0 range) are packed together. The number of people actually voting for the games goes up and down in strange ways (Muchi Pork only received one more vote than Gradius Gaiden but is several spots higher). Having consistently 20 votes or more, unless all of those votes are a [1] value, seems to assure you as one of the top of the pack.
It is indeed a shame that Thunder Force IV and Gunbird 2 almost broke back into the top, but I guess that means there's room for improvement and outreach.
It is indeed a shame that Thunder Force IV and Gunbird 2 almost broke back into the top, but I guess that means there's room for improvement and outreach.
DEMON'S TILT [bullet hell pinball] - Music Composer || EC2151 ~ My FM/YM2612 music & more! || 1CC List || PCE-CD: The Search for Quality
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royalfan84
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:24 pm
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I've always found the saturn-ps1 era shmups movement on this list intriguing. Many of the games have stayed on the list consistently and even moved up later on in their life span (Garegga, Batsugun). Some stayed on the list most years but where they rank is all over the map (Radiant Silvergun, Rayforce, Gradius Gaiden). Some started off strong but faded after a few years (Einhander, R-Type Delta). Some lasted awhile but have dropped off or dropped down in recent years (Soukyugurentai, Strikers 1945II, Raiden DX). While Darius Gaiden has seen a huge surge over the last few. And there's DDP....which is starting to show a slow drop after a decade of consistency. It's just all very interesting to me and says a lot about the overall quality of that era.
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I don't think I've ever seen a discussion of Psikyo games without the term "memotrash" getting thrown around.Squire Grooktook wrote:Well, not everyone likes them, but it isn't the same kind of universal talking point that gets brought up every time.
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Strikers1945guy
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:53 am
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I would never dismiss ikaruga or anything. For score that game is hard and very unforgiving. Probably more unforgiving chaining than in Dodonpachi. Anyone playing Ikaruga for score has my respectSquare_Air wrote:That's not very attitude for gains...Plasmo wrote: I don't think anyone would put Silvergun over Ikaruga. The hierarchy is pretty clear here.
I never understood the stigma of Ikaruga being a "puzzle shmup". It just seems like a very vague buzzword with no real substance to it since all STGs are puzzles. Dismissing the game as "dot eater" is a little more descriptive, but is still only a surface level observation that doesn't hold much more weight than "I don't like what I am not familiar with". At least the discourse surrounding Radiant Silvergun actually mentions the scoring mechanics before someone inevitably goes "Overly ambitious, drawn out, and pretentious 7 weapon boss rush clusterfuck".monouchi wrote:This.Strikers1945guy wrote: Almost anything blows dot eater out of the water
Puzzle shmup...
Difference is if I want to loop or just survival clear DDP it's still a decent challenge. With Ikaruga for survival all of the scary patterns serve no real purpose.
"Oh shit white / black dots better switch polarity and not dodge shit. "
It really is a puzzle game to me and not one I feel the need to devote crazy amounts of time to.
Pink Sweets is a puzzle game done right.
Mister Midnight wrote:btw, cant trust them Koreans; remember Pearl Harbor
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Squire Grooktook
- Posts: 5969
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:39 am
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Like I said before, the thing is the game mixes black and white patterns together so if you switch colors at a bad time you're more likely to get further confused or outright killed because the very things you were harmlessly moving through a moment ago are now lethal and surrounding you, and you have to re-adjust your entire brain as a result.Strikers1945guy wrote: I would never dismiss ikaruga or anything. For score that game is hard and very unforgiving. Probably more unforgiving chaining than in Dodonpachi. Anyone playing Ikaruga for score has my respect
Difference is if I want to loop or just survival clear DDP it's still a decent challenge. With Ikaruga for survival all of the scary patterns serve no real purpose.
"Oh shit white / black dots better switch polarity and not dodge shit. "
It really is a puzzle game to me and not one I feel the need to devote crazy amounts of time to.
Pink Sweets is a puzzle game done right.
The way you speak, it's like every single pattern is the harmless bonus enemy pattern on the last stage that Rob used as a joke. "Just switch colors lol" will get you killed on most of stage 3, all of the stage 3 boss, all of stage 4, all of stage 5, etc.
Maybe your appraisal is accurate for the first two stages, but you don't do much tricky pure survival dodging for the first two stages in any shmup.
You do about as much "dodging", depending on you define it, as most other shmups anyway. A lot of things can be neutralized by smart memo, but the same can be said for any Psikyo game, lots of Irem games, lots of Cave games, etc. There are also a number of random spots where you can't memo and you do have to dodge black and white patterns together.
I know opinions and preferences are cool and all but IMO you're seriously misinformed about the way the game plays at a basic level. It's not the hardest thing ever if played for survival but if you're going to neutralize the harder parts (aka everything after the midpoint in stage 3) you need more of a plan or more finesse then "just switch colors lol".
Last edited by Squire Grooktook on Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:47 am, edited 5 times in total.
Aeon Zenith - My STG.RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................
Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Except, you know, when the different colors intersect and you have to dodge one color while absorbing the other. Which is most of the game if you're playing on Normal or Hard difficulty, or pure dot-eater on any difficulty. (Easy is pretty easy with the dodging until the stage 5 boss, but it's called that for a reason.)Strikers1945guy wrote:With Ikaruga for survival all of the scary patterns serve no real purpose.
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I don't know why you guys bother, it's obvious no one really plays the game since there's no (even Easy) 1CCs or scores for it to be seen, so you can take the lol puzzle stuff with a big grain of salt since it's not really serious, more like a first impression. Also try scoring up to S rank and higher in chapter 3 while taking it easy with the restarts since it's by far the most fun you can have with the game, played nothing but that shmup-wise for at least a few months before getting bored.
Last edited by ciox on Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Squire Grooktook
- Posts: 5969
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:39 am
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I 1cc'd it on normal, but I'm not happy with my score and wanted to go back to it, so I didn't post the score is all (same with a lot of games).
But honestly, if something is just a first impression based on memes and 5 minutes of playtime, you honestly shouldn't keep spreading misinformation about it every time the subject comes up. There are opinions and then there's just stuff that's provably wrong (ie every pattern can easily be solved purely by switching colors once) and gives newbies the wrong idea, which further leads to nobody playing it or going into it with a bias.
But honestly, if something is just a first impression based on memes and 5 minutes of playtime, you honestly shouldn't keep spreading misinformation about it every time the subject comes up. There are opinions and then there's just stuff that's provably wrong (ie every pattern can easily be solved purely by switching colors once) and gives newbies the wrong idea, which further leads to nobody playing it or going into it with a bias.
Aeon Zenith - My STG.RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................
Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I only played about 4 hours so far, but only could reach to Stage 2 boss on easy(Easy is pretty easy with the dodging until the stage 5 boss, but it's called that for a reason.)
I'm usually stupidly die when smash into walls before it.Or more about current mood on this forum.. It's just all very interesting to me and says a lot about the overall quality of that era.
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
It's about practicing, having a clear plan, and staying calm. If you panic and flail around you'll most definitely die and that's why a lot of non-regular shmup players talk about how hard the game is and how they couldn't get past stage 2 or even stage 1. Just playing one or two credits every once in a while isn't going to be enough for most people to learn it, you have to sit down with it and get yourself comfortable and familiar with it. But once you've gotten to the point where the game isn't constantly surprising you, the execution barrier on easy difficulty is pretty low - there isn't a whole lot you need to do if you're not going for score, as opposed to more difficult games where even if you know exactly what to do simply doing it is a challenge.qmish wrote:I only played about 4 hours so far, but only could reach to Stage 2 boss on easy
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Splendid balanced list with good old school representation.
Shame about Gunbird 2 dropping but Dragon Blaze is there and good old Layer Section - a proper old school STG - riding high at 8.
Nice to see Muchi Muchi Pork get some love - I find it highly entertaining.. and I'm still loving Mushi Futari 1.5 and BL so good to see those still up there.
Shame about Gunbird 2 dropping but Dragon Blaze is there and good old Layer Section - a proper old school STG - riding high at 8.
Nice to see Muchi Muchi Pork get some love - I find it highly entertaining.. and I'm still loving Mushi Futari 1.5 and BL so good to see those still up there.
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Square_Air
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:50 am
- Location: The Edge Of The Ape Oven
- Contact:
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I see the vast majority of video games as puzzle games in disguise. People all agree that something like Magical Drop 3 is a puzzle game, but I see something like Doom 2 on ultra-violence as being very puzzle like as different enemy combinations and map layouts are more efficient with certain tactics and weapons. On a similar note, I see bullet reading as a very fast paced puzzle experience as well, like determining how a pattern will behave in half a second after you get your first glimpse of the initial burst. You have to act accordingly based on reason. I will not deny the execution element though (STGs are not completely puzzles), it is what differentiates them from conventional puzzle games.
Various opinions of this years list:
-ctrl + f "Sinistar" = Phrase not found...
This is a pretty glaring omission in my eyes, that's one of the greatest from the golden age of arcades. Looks like I need to be more punctual with checking when the voting takes place so I don't show up an hour after the polls have been closed. I promise you'll make the list next year, Sinistar. ;-;
-It seems weird to see Twin Cobra and Sky Shark so close to the HM list while Twin Hawk is all the way at the end of the full list. I see Twin Hawk and Fire Shark being superior to both of those.
-1941 at the bottom right beside 1943 is strange, I only played it once, but it seemed to be better in spades. I haven't played 19xx though, so maybe it's so good it renders 1941 obsolete? I'll have to check this one out.
-Glad to see Gradius off of the HM list. I will never deny how influential it was, but Gradius 2 is of such higher quality it feels wrong to have them on an equal plane.
-While Super Aleste is far from perfect, it almost deserves an HM list spot just for the space platform track. One of the greatest video game tracks i've ever heard.
-Seeing Crimzon Clover rank so high and Great Fairy Wars not far behind the HM list has peaked my interest in both of these. Need to finally check these out.
-R-Type seem just a little high on the top 25, though I'm fine with it being on the list. I need to revisit this one perhaps?
-Congratulations to Eschatos!
Quite pleased to see this finally break the top 25.
-Thunder Dragon two has gone from completely off my radar to near the top of my must play list, looking forward to getting around to this.
Various opinions of this years list:
-ctrl + f "Sinistar" = Phrase not found...
This is a pretty glaring omission in my eyes, that's one of the greatest from the golden age of arcades. Looks like I need to be more punctual with checking when the voting takes place so I don't show up an hour after the polls have been closed. I promise you'll make the list next year, Sinistar. ;-;
-It seems weird to see Twin Cobra and Sky Shark so close to the HM list while Twin Hawk is all the way at the end of the full list. I see Twin Hawk and Fire Shark being superior to both of those.
-1941 at the bottom right beside 1943 is strange, I only played it once, but it seemed to be better in spades. I haven't played 19xx though, so maybe it's so good it renders 1941 obsolete? I'll have to check this one out.
-Glad to see Gradius off of the HM list. I will never deny how influential it was, but Gradius 2 is of such higher quality it feels wrong to have them on an equal plane.
-While Super Aleste is far from perfect, it almost deserves an HM list spot just for the space platform track. One of the greatest video game tracks i've ever heard.
-Seeing Crimzon Clover rank so high and Great Fairy Wars not far behind the HM list has peaked my interest in both of these. Need to finally check these out.
-R-Type seem just a little high on the top 25, though I'm fine with it being on the list. I need to revisit this one perhaps?
-Congratulations to Eschatos!
Quite pleased to see this finally break the top 25.-Thunder Dragon two has gone from completely off my radar to near the top of my must play list, looking forward to getting around to this.
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Squire Grooktook
- Posts: 5969
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:39 am
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
^^^If you haven't, try playing Super Aleste on the highest difficulty. A high placement for it only makes sense to me after doing so. It fixes every flaw the game has ('cept maybe length) and turns it totally sublime.
Aeon Zenith - My STG.RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................
Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I partially disagree. Twin Cobra/Kyuukyoku Tiger is incredibly addictive and energetic which are not epithets I'd associate with Twin Hawk/Daisenpuu in the slightest. Out of all the Toaplan shooters I've played so far, Twin Hawk/Daisenpuu would firmly rank on the lower end of the list.Square_Air wrote:-It seems weird to see Twin Cobra and Sky Shark so close to the HM list while Twin Hawk is all the way at the end of the full list. I see Twin Hawk and Fire Shark being superior to both of those.
If Gradius II were to finally get a spot on the top 25 (it belongs there!) and the original game one on the HM then there'd be a perceptible difference.Square_Air wrote:-Glad to see Gradius off of the HM list. I will never deny how influential it was, but Gradius 2 is of such higher quality it feels wrong to have them on an equal plane.
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Gekidan Machina is the second second coming of Christ (the first second was Mecha Ritz), everyone needs to do a revote. These two games need to be top 25.
Same problem behind anyone thinking Salamander AC is good. Salamander PCE should be considered a completely separate game and Salamander AC should not even be on the list.
Garbage fucking Musha does not belong on any fucking list of anything except "games with great aesthetics", Jesus Christ. When will this community stop obsessing over this empty pointless game out of sheer nostalgia? This is the exact kind of shit that holds the entire community back. It is everything people claim to hate about other games made real back in 1990, and literally noone notices that. Somehow people can find slogging away for an hour doing absolutely nothing to be fun.
Musha being anywhere near Mahou is a war crime. Putting Musha above Mahou is shmup genocide.
Gradius is an infinitely better game than Gradius II simply because the stage design isn't broken and because the game rewards you for powerups. Gradius should be in the honorable mentions at the very least, and II should be waaaaaay down. It's very sad that people will forever see Gradius as "dated" because they get lost in II's flash and forget all about excellent design.Square_Air wrote:-Glad to see Gradius off of the HM list. I will never deny how influential it was, but Gradius 2 is of such higher quality it feels wrong to have them on an equal plane.
Same problem behind anyone thinking Salamander AC is good. Salamander PCE should be considered a completely separate game and Salamander AC should not even be on the list.
Sadly, completely made irrelevant by busted scoring.Squire Grooktook wrote:^^^If you haven't, try playing Super Aleste on the highest difficulty. A high placement for it only makes sense to me after doing so. It fixes every flaw the game has ('cept maybe length) and turns it totally sublime.
Kyukyoku Tiger is completely anemic for most of the game because the spread shot is almost broken. Daisenpuu doesn't have that problem at all.Perikles wrote:I partially disagree. Twin Cobra/Kyuukyoku Tiger is incredibly addictive and energetic which are not epithets I'd associate with Twin Hawk/Daisenpuu in the slightest. Out of all the Toaplan shooters I've played so far, Twin Hawk/Daisenpuu would firmly rank on the lower end of the list.
Garbage fucking Musha does not belong on any fucking list of anything except "games with great aesthetics", Jesus Christ. When will this community stop obsessing over this empty pointless game out of sheer nostalgia? This is the exact kind of shit that holds the entire community back. It is everything people claim to hate about other games made real back in 1990, and literally noone notices that. Somehow people can find slogging away for an hour doing absolutely nothing to be fun.
Musha being anywhere near Mahou is a war crime. Putting Musha above Mahou is shmup genocide.
Last edited by Despatche on Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rage Pro, Rage Fury, Rage MAXX!
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Squire Grooktook
- Posts: 5969
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:39 am
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Bos doesn't seem to care too much about busted scoring in his various 1lc's of it*, and I don't either. In terms of pure dodging and shooting the game is aces, IMO the best 16 bit blasting that doesn't have Bio Metal in the name.
*He has a few counter stops too, but IIRC several of his videos just ignore score and push for a 1lc several times over.
*He has a few counter stops too, but IIRC several of his videos just ignore score and push for a 1lc several times over.
Aeon Zenith - My STG.RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................
Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
Re: 13th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Survival is all well and good, but there's nothing to do after that. Should be NMNB anyway, not just NM. Better yet, with weapon 1.
Rage Pro, Rage Fury, Rage MAXX!