GamerGate - and it's continuing aftermath.

[evil_ash_xero]

"SJW", I would've figured the so-called "oppressed straight white guy majority" could've come up with something more creative than that.

Don't drink the Kool-Aid.

[Mischief Maker]

I really don't see why I should care about game journalism, one way or the other.

You must have unlimited time and money!

Also, attention in the gaming press makes the difference between a publisher making one obscure title and fading away, or becoming successful and releasing more and more games in their particular style, copycats who innovate on top of that style, etc.

Stuff in the real world is much more important, such as what's going on in universities, and laws being passed ("yes means yes" law, in CA)....but this is something that looks like we actually can win.

Here is where I'm going to have to part ways with you. #GG to me isn't about real-world feminism, it's about rampant incompetence and corruption in the gaming press. That article I linked was about the author shoehorning social justice into the piece to garner himself SJW cred instead of doing his damn job. I agree that "Yes means yes" is a step in the wrong direction, but if you think feminists run the world right now you haven't been paying attention to what's going on with abortion laws or the supreme court's shenanigans lately.

Here's a great image that encapsulates what #GG is all about (to me) entitled "Before and after the check from EA":

[Squire Grooktook]

I really don't see why I should care about game journalism, one way or the other.

You must have unlimited time and money!

On the contrary, gaming has become an incredibly cheap hobby for me over the years. Seeing as how the western triple aaa mainstream games have almost invariably been totally uninteresting to me for the past few years, I barely ever end up purchasing a game that's more than 20 dollars or so. Occasionally delving into Nintendo products and a few other things (Xenoblade, Platinum Games titles, etc.) is about as pricey as it gets. Most of my purchases these days are of niche titles that fall within my realm of interest, and usually cost under 20 dollars or so.

I haven't read a game magazine or followed a game website in nearly 7-8 years, yet thanks to the most basic amount of pre-purchase research, my steam, pc, and console library have filled up with top notch games that I enjoy replaying endlessly. Who the fuck needs game journalism?

Also, attention in the gaming press makes the difference between a publisher making one obscure title and fading away, or becoming successful and releasing more and more games in their particular style, copycats who innovate on top of that style, etc.

Except for the part where neither GamerGate nor GameJournalism have any interest in these games. At all. Zero. And are doing nothing to help that issue. Even if GamerGate added "let's make tense, arcade styled, and deep games a priority!" getting the mainstream (both journalism and the mainstream gaming audience themselves) to embrace them would be like trying to build an igloo in Hell.

I've come to the conclusion that the reason the kind of playstyles I like are niche isn't because of developers, or publishers, or journalists. Their niche because gamers in general are lazy and complacent as fuck and bitch about how modern games suck but still don't want to put the time and effort in to get some entertainment out of something deeper. I know friends who payed 60 dollars for Starcraft, but just find the idea of sitting down for one afternoon to learn what the fucking units even do is such hard work, they'd rather just goof off and play the same old moba or Call of Duty for 8000+ hours. Even when they acknowledge that a lot of mainstream games are shit, their too lazy to do anything about that. After all, working through a work of great literature or 1cc'ing an arcade game is an amazing experience, but who has the attention span for that? Easier to just turn your brain off. And that's why we can't have nice things.

[Skykid]

The real shame is that this attitude that games should be reviewed like film

Completely agree. Even more of a shame that developers want their games to walk side-by-side with film. Essentially the reason the whole industry is so misguided.

[Mischief Maker]

The real shame is that this attitude that games should be reviewed like film

Completely agree. Even more of a shame that developers want their games to walk side-by-side with film. Essentially the reason the whole industry is so misguided.

Even worse, film producers have for years wanted to make their movies more like videogames.

[Ed Oscuro]

"My main goal as a director is to make films more accessible"

Also, this. T-Rex reads Shmups Farm?

[BryanM]

Wow, IGN? Haven't read anything from them since I was around 15 years old. How are they still in business?

I think we all know the answer to that one.

On the contrary, gaming has become an incredibly cheap hobby for me over the years.

Tell me about it.

I'm an old fart, people. I've acquired dozens of games in my time. Any new game has to be better, or at least significantly different, than all of them. Practically none of them are, so the upper amount I'll spend on a game is $0. That's how much I value a video game now.

A good example: I'll play Path of Exile because it's $0. But $90 for Diablo 3? For an inferior remake of Diablo 2? Are you fucking kidding me? I'll just play Path of Exile, Diablo 2, a Diablo 2 mod, or make a Diablo 2 mod. Or Web Sudoku. Thanks.

I've mentioned the lifecycle curve of games thousands of times here. The above is the reason why they keep making games for kids and "casuals". I want games that cost $6 million to make and have about 400,000 people in the world that want to play it. And I'm only willing to spend $0 to play it. They would have to be out of their fuckin' minds if they were a for profit business.

And I'd have to be out of my mind to expect to see games I care about get made with budgets that high.

"My main goal as a director is to make films more accessible"

Like Titanic!

Streamlining is not necessarily awful. Olde timey Dungeons and Dragons, first thing you do is roll stats. What do they do? Nothing, except for when they're high or low enough that they do. Or in the case of Charisma, just nothing. Or in the case of Wisdom, nothing unless you're playing a Jesus or Moses archetype.

Really creating a DnD character is the most complex part of the entire game.

--

One of those thought projects I've been working on to kill time is designing a kind of Magic The Gathering humans could play. Just two simple primary goals:

* Having to track life totals should be trivial. Writing things down or using a die to keep track should be unnecessary.

* Twiddling resources to play cards should be unnecessary.

Replacing the life system is easy - just have the deck be your life total. But replacing the mana system, not so much.

[Ed Oscuro]

Why should people in a Democracy want journalism to be good? Especially journalism about weirdos and their hobbies?

Behold.

[Obscura]

GameJournalism have any interest in these games. At all. Zero.

This is exactly why we're going to see tons of the "SJW" journalism in the future.

If you're Polygon and have to write a review of The Witcher 3 (to use a recent infamous example), you probably lack the expertise to dissect the mechanics and quest design and compare them to other games in the genre (say, the Gothic series, or the Souls series, or The Elder Scrolls series, or Dragon's Dogma, or Risen) in order to be able to say "The Witcher 3 is good/bad and this is why". I mean, let's face it -- if you're writing for a large "publication", your readers probably know more about the topic of videogames than you do. And yet, the very role of "critic" demands expertise beyond that of your readers, and you have to write a few thousand words on The Witcher 3, with an expertise greater than that of your readers. Obviously, you can't do this by writing about the game itself. But, you can still write the article you have to write by trying to become a culture critic, eschewing the question of "is The Witcher 3 any good?", and writing about the depiction of women in The Witcher 3 instead.

It's just another facet of the "art-game" racket.

With that said, I simply can't agree with the notion that "games now suck compared to how things used to be!" The average quality of games is a lot higher now than it was 20 years ago (I mean, seriously, just think about how bad the crap that was all over the shelves of your local KB Toys was...), and even in terms of "the quality of the best games", there's still plenty of good stuff being made. 2014 saw the release of Wrack, Bayonetta 2, Gauntlet 2014, Alien: Isolation, Wargame: Red Dragon, Dark Souls 2, and Guilty Gear Xrd, all of which are good-to-great games. Furthermore, I can't agree with the assertion that the taste for "hardcore/challenging" games has changed over the last two decades, or that only "hard or arcade style" games are worth a player's time. Even in "the old days", story-driven "put the player in a big world" games that were light on challenge were highly lauded, such as Ultima VII, Faxanadu, System Shock, Final Fantasy 4 & 6, Chrono Trigger, etc. Well-built "escapism simulators" have a place, and I'll always be up for a Dishonored or a Fallout: New Vegas or a Mask of the Betrayer. Finally, it strikes me as strange to see people claiming that arcade-style design is less appreciated now than it used to be when AAA games on PC have moved away from quicksave systems towards checkpoint systems.

[Squire Grooktook]

With that said, I simply can't agree with the notion that "games now suck compared to how things used to be!" The average quality of games is a lot higher now than it was 20 years ago (I mean, seriously, just think about how bad the crap that was all over the shelves of your local KB Toys was...),

I actually feel that it's not better, more the same. However my experience is that a lot of playstyles an types of experiences I enjoy have become more marginalized and niche, to the point of these genres becoming endangered.

I'm fine enjoying games from the indie/doujin scene and not-quite-aaa-but-sill-pretty-professional-and-large-bugeted smaller developers like Platinum, but I worry what the future might hold if these genres become even more niche. Who's going to make 3d action games on the level of Platinum if they were to die out tomorrow? Not many big time developers seem to have the slightest interest nor capability, and the doujin scene certainly isn't giving us anything like Bayonetta 2 for a long time.

Furthermore, I can't agree with the assertion that the taste for "hardcore/challenging" games has changed over the last two decades

I think they have, particularly for single player genres. Fighters? People can understand competition. Hack and slash? I don't know a single person who's gone for an above bronze medal in Bayonetta, who isn't already a member of this forum or who wasn't directly convinced to do so by yours truly <3

Or perhaps it's not so much that they've changed, as alternatives have opened that invalidate that experience for many people. Struggling to 1cc a shmup on your sega genesis? You bought it, and a 20 minute game isn't that bad when most games aren't much longer. Why bother putting that much effort in nowadays when there are gigantic (but yawn worthy, to me) worlds to explore that don't punish the player or require effort to progress in?

I've even seen people obstinately refuse to make progress in the Souls series, which is saddening considering how forgiving the games are in truth. It's really a miracle that the series has done as well as it has imo, something I blame on lucky timing an marketing.

that only "hard or arcade style" games are worth a player's time.

Different tastes for different folks, but the sense that the arcade style or styles influenced by that sense of strict punishment have been marginalized in the mainstream market is an impression I distinctly have.

I actually agree a different kind of experience is worthwhile from time to time. Story or immersion based is fine (though I think that even then, there's rarely reason why these games can't have an inbuilt sense of tension)

Finally, it strikes me as strange to see people claiming that arcade-style design is less appreciated now than it used to be when AAA games on PC have moved away from quicksave systems towards checkpoint systems.

This might be a difference in perspective, as despite my recent involvement with pc gaming, I've always previously been a primarily console oriented player. When I think of all the things I don't like about mainstream games, most of it is in regard to western aaa console releases and the trends for them that have emerged for the past 5-7 years or so. I confess I may be somewhat in the dark for western PC exclusive trends, a market I've only recently been dabbling in.

[Obscura]

I think they have, particularly for single player genres. Fighters? People can understand competition. Hack and slash? I don't know a single person who's gone for an above bronze medal in Bayonetta, who isn't already a member of this forum or who wasn't directly convinced to do so by yours truly <3

If you're recruiting people who like skill-based games for this forum, then "the only people I know who like skill-based games post on this forum" is going to have one hell of a selection bias

Or perhaps it's not so much that they've changed, as alternatives have opened that invalidate that experience for many people. Struggling to 1cc a shmup on your sega genesis? You bought it, and a 20 minute game isn't that bad when most games aren't much longer. Why bother putting that much effort in nowadays when there are gigantic (but yawn worthy, to me) worlds to explore that don't punish the player or require effort to progress in?

Why bother struggling to 1cc Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts when Final Fantasy IV or FFVI or Chrono Trigger or Secret of Mana or Lufia etc. all offer gigantic worlds to explore that don't punish the player or require effort to progress in?

These games have always been there.

[Squire Grooktook]

I think they have, particularly for single player genres. Fighters? People can understand competition. Hack and slash? I don't know a single person who's gone for an above bronze medal in Bayonetta, who isn't already a member of this forum or who wasn't directly convinced to do so by yours truly <3

If you're recruiting people who like skill-based games for this forum, then "the only people I know who like skill-based games post on this forum" is going to have one hell of a selection bias

Actually was referring to a friend from another forum who usually plays nothing but Minecraft and mmo's, who I convinced to spend extra time with the game lol.

Why bother struggling to 1cc Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts when Final Fantasy IV or FFVI or Chrono Trigger or Secret of Mana or Lufia etc. all offer gigantic worlds to explore that don't punish the player or require effort to progress in?

These games have always been there.

The Final Fantasy's and jrpg's of the past were a bit different though.

Not being able to save in the middle of dungeons (except in the case of FF past III and Chrono Trigger etc. which allowed you to save in dungeons, but only at specific points) offered a similar sense of tension. Now, even many of the old guard jrpg's have embraced being able to save anywhere and dumbing down combat. Shin Megami Tensei IV has amazing atmosphere and soundtrack but the severely gimped combat (due to a change in the way stats worked) and ability to save anywhere in dungeons really kills a lot of the feels of the gameplay.

But even beyond that, things like oldschool jrpg's have fallen out of what could be called the mainstream, and it seems most players I've met would be more content to have a story and world delivered to them by a qte-fest movie game than an rpg that they have to spend hours grinding, preparing, and strategizing in. Again, I'm speaking from experience in the console market, so what I'm saying may not apply to PC exclusive trends, but I find that the vast majority of games that don't autosave every five steps are usually from smaller companies.

[Mischief Maker]

Dunno if you guys haven't heard about Polygon's recent preview article on Rock Band 4, but in the interest of informing the public and NOT generating hits for Polygon, here is Total Biscuit doing a verbatim reading of the article in question:

https://soundcloud.com/totalbiscuit/mas ... journalism

[evil_ash_xero]

That's priceless.

[Drum]

Could you please write it down? I don't want to give TotalBiscuit's soundcloud the hits either.

[BryanM]

Does anyone really need to spend two seconds of their day thinking about Rock Band 1984?

Let us instead expend calories on ruminating on the values and shortfalls of Lakeview Cabin Collection



A fine art game in the tradition of old Newground style boating and fishing simulator flash games.

[Skykid]

Could you please write it down? I don't want to give TotalBiscuit's soundcloud the hits either.

I'm torn on this. Basically the journo got sent to a flashy gaming preview event for a game he doesn't give a damn about, and said as much. On one hand I feel as though he's failed in his responsibilities to report things about the game that readers may have an interest in, on the other hand I feel as though he's been candid about the stupidity of glossy expensive preview events and the stupidity of publications who send authors to them who don't have any experience in the genre.

It's a tough call, but ultimately it's one of those who really gives a fuck kind of things.

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^That last sentence

[Mischief Maker]

Could you please write it down? I don't want to give TotalBiscuit's soundcloud the hits either.

I'm torn on this. Basically the journo got sent to a flashy gaming preview event for a game he doesn't give a damn about, and said as much. On one hand I feel as though he's failed in his responsibilities to report things about the game that readers may have an interest in, on the other hand I feel as though he's been candid about the stupidity of glossy expensive preview events and the stupidity of publications who send authors to them who don't have any experience in the genre.

It's a tough call, but ultimately it's one of those who really gives a fuck kind of things.

First of all, the fact that he found it so important to say not once but twice that he was discussing "government in the Philippines," just in case you didn't realize how worldly and intellectual he was the first time, earns this guy ironclad douchebag credentials.

Furthermore, he isn't improving the profession with all the whining, because all he reports of the game is snippets from its Press Release. No attempt to determine if this build of the game on display actually delivered on their promises. For the reader, the effect would have been the same if he just copy-pasted a couple random sentences from the press release and sent it to the editor, then spent the remainder of the evening masturbating in his hotel room.

[Skykid]

^ I have no argument with this.

I still don't give a fuck either way though, it's not really news is it.

[evil_ash_xero]

Rock Band 1984..hmm....I didn't know they still made those games.

Awareness!

I wonder if Judas Priest's Love Bites is on it? Probably not.

[BryanM]

then spent the remainder of the evening masturbating in his hotel room.

A very good point you have here:

* No one in the media can be as truthful or as full of giving a fuck as we can be.

Just as

* No one can care about boobies as much as I do.

Good thing it's 2015 and no one has to pay attention to The Media anymore, eh?

[Mischief Maker]

then spent the remainder of the evening masturbating in his hotel room.

A very good point you have here:

* No one in the media can be as truthful or as full of giving a fuck as we can be.

Just as

* No one can care about boobies as much as I do.

Good thing it's 2015 and no one has to pay attention to The Media anymore, eh?

I've read your post 3 times and I'm still too dense to get your point. Are you saying that I'm comparing myself to the reviewer as some sort of paragon? I'd like to think the wanking joke was clear, the dude didn't want to be at the party and proceeded to spend the rest of the article talking about WHY he was just so cool that the event was beneath him. I'd rather he masturbate in his hotel room than all over my monitor.

And you'd be hard-pressed to come up with a videogame more expensive to invest in than Rock Band, so I'd say honest previews on whether the new features of this Rock Band game work is very important.

(Though when I really think about it, I think the true story here is the dude went to the preview event in good faith, but upon arriving realized that trying out the game meant singing or otherwise performing in front of the crowded room and potentially making a fool of himself. He lost his nerve. That left him 3 obvious options: cowboy up and do it anyway, sheepishly admit his cowardice and report on how well it seemed to be going for the people who did try, or shit all over the event so his failure to participate seemed totally justified.)

But then again I might have completely misinterpreted your post.

[BryanM]

But then again I might have completely misinterpreted your post.

Yeah you're overthinking it.

Asking these folks to provide added value is like wanting your dog to be your dentist. Anyone who cares about Rock Band and their money will wait for the opinion of the experts in the matter: their peers.

Sure, all companies could be like Grinding Gear Games and do community outreach to get the word out about their game, but that's something a poor person would do. Someone who couldn't just buy ad copy everywhere.

[system11]

I'm torn on this. Basically the journo got sent to a flashy gaming preview event for a game he doesn't give a damn about, and said as much. On one hand I feel as though he's failed in his responsibilities to report things about the game that readers may have an interest in, on the other hand I feel as though he's been candid about the stupidity of glossy expensive preview events and the stupidity of publications who send authors to them who don't have any experience in the genre.

If the words are indeed accurate, then the writer comes across as someone who should probably be at wine and cheese parties talking about minimalism in contemporary art cinema. Wankers, basically.

[Skykid]

I'm torn on this. Basically the journo got sent to a flashy gaming preview event for a game he doesn't give a damn about, and said as much. On one hand I feel as though he's failed in his responsibilities to report things about the game that readers may have an interest in, on the other hand I feel as though he's been candid about the stupidity of glossy expensive preview events and the stupidity of publications who send authors to them who don't have any experience in the genre.

If the words are indeed accurate, then the writer comes across as someone who should probably be at wine and cheese parties talking about minimalism in contemporary art cinema. Wankers, basically.

Not sure if he's qualified to talk about minimalism in contemporary art cinema, although in my experience most people try to defend their career path by demonstrating a higher knowledge in some other field. I couldn't understand game journo's motivations in that respect (they play games for a living! *cliche*) until I compared them to the average joe in an average job, working the office, flogging the retail, and then I realised the world is a colourless corporate mill where we're all essentially running in the same rat wheel and desperate to tell other people we're actually lucid beings with some kind of intelligence and cognition outside of our bread making roles.

Journalism is more vocal, but indeed not much different to the rest of the low paid, soul eating practices we do 9-5 and other hours, and therefore screams for help manifest themselves as "I'm talking about politics in the Philippines now, I'm not just a games journo!" and "I don't want to look like a twat playing a stupid fucking guitar game for money".

Best advice: be unemployed. Overthrow your government.

[Ed Oscuro]

I enjoyed the Polygon piece, for what it's worth, and I didn't go to that TotalSomething website either.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/1/8687867 ... -4-preview
The word "government?" Never in evidence!

I find it funny that some people go "oh, game journo is totally terrible" and then somebody giving the inside story about how games journo is totally terrible - that's terrible too! I thought it was refreshing (though, not as refreshing as a truly imaginative angle into the promo should have been). I think the writer's in a good place to point out that PR stunts are often counterproductive - just as pretty much every journalist who's been in NK feels it's worth mentioning the awfulness of the lunches and other state's photo ops there.

Sure, it is navel gazing, but there is an unholy alliance of journalists, game companies, and compulsive clickers that ensure it will continue happening.

[evil_ash_xero]

Well, it just sort of reinforced the idea that a lot of journos aren't really gamers, and don't like games that much (or gamers).

[Squire Grooktook]

Or doesn't it more say that he was assigned to a genre he had no interest in, when the magazine or whatever he worked for should have assigned someone well versed in music games?

* did not click either link

[Ed Oscuro]

It's not a Polygon problem, per se, because it's all clickbait, and it doesn't make me trust them less to have them tell me that they realize it's a problem (in so many words). Harmonix probably didn't get the value out of the preview they wanted. Should I (or Polygon) care? Don't think so.

Escapist forum has a thread on it, one or two sensible viewpoints there (I'm mostly in agreement with Revnak):
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/ ... ame?page=3

The people at Escapist talking about a journalist abusing his "coveted media platform" sound deprived and deluded. Being asked to spend useful waking hours on absolute nothings is not a good service to the world. The people talking about the reviewer's privilege - even if not using the word, it's what's meant - aren't getting that this is journalistic pushback against being expected to be hype factories. Colin Campbell even ends his piece on a note that he's hopeful to actually talk to somebody in a quiet room about something interesting behind the game - it's not much, but it's what passes for gaming journalism, and I felt it was nice to end on a note that he's hopeful to get some useful information out to readers.

Is it unacceptable pompous navel-gazing when Jim Sterling hosts a Jimquisition or complains at length about somebody sending a giant Sonic The Hedgehog tarp to him? No. Jim's just more experienced at puncturing the hype balloon than Colin Campbell.

Like I said earlier, other media forms have had this problem too. Somebody brought up Union Station and not covering a Presidential race. Well, you know what? People inside media criticize the uselessness of political media campaigns too! There's books and things to publish on the side. And yeah, I do sympathize with the reviewer's sentiment - too many games are meant to cater to the dumbest demographic instead of reaching a fuller potential. Even the person enlarging on their campaign trail memories will have more personal fulfillment (political campaigns are about important things, right? Right?) and can be more assured of a book deal.