Touhou 14 demo released: Something about a bomb

[Ed Oscuro]

toehoe girls are overrated

*throws down a mighty spiked gauntlet*

TO THE DEATH, CURS

[zaphod]

Anyone who thinks rank isn't that important in garegga hasn't tried to single life clear the game. Without rank management, the endgame becomes impossible. And Rank management means letting powerups pass, and avoid shooting enemies as much as possible, unless you are willing to score and suicide.


If anyone can no miss clear garegga without extreme rank management or tool assistance, i'd like to see it. Bombing is ok of course, since they are a resource that is supposed to be used instead of saved up for bonus.

[trap15]

You're not supposed to one-life clear it. Rank isn't as insane and doesn't require as much work to control as people make it out to be if you play the game properly.

[Ed Oscuro]

IN A WORLD where the point is not circular, like Garegga bullets, only one will rise to the top. WILL IT BE YOU?!

[zaphod]

I know, you are supposed to score an suicide, keep stock low so your suicides decrease rank more, and not power up until you actually need the firepower on the last few stages.

But if a game takes quarters to play, it is my firm belief that a mistake early on shouldn't make death unavoiable later. And that's exactly what this rank system does. The mistake (increasing rank too much early on) leas to an unavoidable death a few levels later, at least for people with human reflexes.

[endoKarb]

But if a game takes quarters to play, it is my firm belief that a mistake early on shouldn't make death unavoiable later. And that's exactly what this rank system does.

Yagawa invented Garegga-style rank simply as a way to make players pay more quarters.

How did this turn into a Garegga thread anyway

[Zaarock]

Yagawa invented Garegga-style rank simply as a way to make players pay more quarters.

People keep saying this but haven't very similar rank systems been made before garegga? I've been playing Zanac a little recently which can have massive difficulty increase through very much the same events(shooting too fast/much, powering up, no-missing, scoring..) and could be equally brutal if it had less extends/was designed to be an arcade game.

edit: yeah just checked, rank in zanac increases bullet count, velocity and enemy HP as well as spawns specific enemies to counter your weapon.

Many more games too I'd imagine. Not to say that garegga didn't polish the system in some way but saying YGW created this kind of punishing adaptive difficulty from various player actions is silly because it's already been done at least 10 years before garegga.

[Illyrian]

I personally think that the bullets in Garegga are too hard to see and the game would be better if it had Cave bullets instead, like in Bakraid. I also think really the ship hitbox is too big and should be visible given how much stuff there is on the screen later on.

[endoKarb]

Yagawa invented Garegga-style rank simply as a way to make players pay more quarters.

People keep saying this but haven't very similar rank systems been made before garegga? I've been playing Zanac a little recently which can have massive difficulty increase through very much the same events(shooting too fast/much, powering up, no-missing, scoring..) and could be equally brutal if it had less extends/was designed to be an arcade game.

Many more games too I'd imagine. Not to say that garegga didn't polish the system in some way but saying YGW created this kind of punishing adaptive difficulty from various player actions is silly because it's already been done at least 10 years before garegga.

Dunno if he invented it. Everybody kinda steal their ideas from somewhere else, but he definitely included it as a way to increase revenue

Yagawa: People often say that, but I think its an exaggeration. I've also done games without rank, after all. But its certainly the case that my arcade games have that feature. Its not because of some particular insistence on my part, but rather because income at the arcades is equivalent with the amount of time one spends playing. It sounds bad, but it was one of my methods for increasing income for arcade operators.

[Skykid]

^ from the horse's mouth.

I think you don't need much more of an indicator than the fact that rank in Garegga carries over from one credit to the next.

How did this turn into a Garegga thread anyway

Who cares, it's so much better as a Garegga thread.

[Yield]

How did this turn into a Garegga thread anyway

Who cares, it's so much better as a Garegga thread.

But but but... Garegga doesn't have MOE!

[KAI]

Here's your moe



Play Pinksweets.

[Yield]

Play Pinksweets.

Yeah, no, I don't even own a 360.

This is now a (shmups) moe thread?

[Hagane]

Who cares, it's so much better as a Garegga thread.

And if some people stopped shitposting it would be even better.

[KennyMan666]

[Yield]

(Can't seem to find an option to delete posts, disregard this message)

[Giest118]

Battle Garegga is a shitty game and Touhou is way better.
Touhou 13 is basically Battle Garegga anyway. Suiciding to get more bombs so you can score more. Lawl.

Just kidding, Touhou 13 is way more fun than Battle Garegga. At least Touhou 13's music isn't TOTAL shit.




I'm being ironic in case you didn't get that.



So, how about that Touhou 14? Can't wait to see what the hentai doujins are like.

[zaphod]

zanac's rank system, while nearly equally punishing, is a lot more transparent. the manual flat out tells you the enemy responds to heavy aggression by ratcheting up, and that it adapts to you.

If we accept that the rank was designed to suck quarters (which may actuall be true, considering the initial rank system) we have to accept that the game was not designed to be mastered in the first place.

Yet at least on the original japanese defaults it CAN be cleared on one coin, despite the rank system. I'm not so sure about the other extend options. SO i believe it was supposed to be masterable after all, after enough quarters were spent to not only develop skills and knowledge of what is to come but a proper strategy. However, it can only be found by lots of experimentation as well as blind faith that there IS a way. (sorta like Tower of Druaga in that fashion without accepting that there must be a way as a premise, it's easy to dismiss the game as impossible)

In america, a fair number of high profile games have systems to insure that the game cannot be mastered on one coin ever. one of the first is Gauntlet II. never mind that it's endless... e game start starving you to force you to put in more coins. Lnowing that there are games that do this it's not much of a tretch to think that garegga is similarly unfair. Having ran into such things with othe gmes, it really turned me off of it.

ObTouHou. yeah it's well known that zun's at isn't the best. Truth is he knows he can't compete with the fanart, so he oesn't even try. his art is servicable and inspires others to improv on it, and he doesn't seem to mind.

And what ever else you can say his bullet patterns are full of interesting gimmicks. Back at ESoD< we had, as early as stage 2, Freeze Sign "Perfect Freeze". i'm pretty sur he did that gimmick first.

[sjoecool1991]

Isn't that "freezing gimmick" in Judgement Silversword on the last boss?

[Despatche]

as cool as the rank discussion is, it's offtopic... because somehow this mess isn't

obvious troll post but hey i'm tired

I estimate, that 90% of touhou players are COMPLETELY blind to flaws of the series? I know you can forgive lots of stuff after you like the game enough, but everyone here are not forgiving anything; they're forgetting

Toho has huge flaws in presentation. CAVE games have some other huge flaws. So do every other shmup.

Get. Over. It.

the flaws you speak of are memes. the good games are called good because they don't have huge gaping flaws; i can't even think of the exceptions right now.

Also, this lgb stupidity is childish as fuck. He should be banned for the same reason as paradigm or gus, but instead, people laugh and encourage him... because he's defending your favorite game?

the callout! we've even got lgb bandwagoning. real class act. you've probably never read a paradigm or gus post in your life, either.

If girls torn by napalm drawn by some 5 year old (as my gf states it) and no in-game explanation or tutorial of the scoring system are not flaws in presentation, then I don't know what the fuck is. and this is only small part of the whole mess
I don't play much touhou, however I'm speaking about stuff I do know 100% sure, quit underestimating, I have hundreds to not like this game, and they come from my own experience

lack of eyeballs, demanding tutorials, the usual "ask first" behavior... pretty obvious stuff here. you're even trying to type like me now, heh.

your girlie friend, if she even exists, is as much of a clown as you are. if anyone here is the paradigm or the gus, it's you.

despite the obvious trolling, i don't think you understand what facts and opinions are anyway. then again, most people don't.

[Despatche]

ohi mauve, sorry about the mess

btw, touhou as a series is actually underrated. sad, isn't it? really sad... it's partly my fault, too...

edit: wow how do people keep saying things like "serviceable" or whatever? how is at all base level, ever?! is "art style" even a concept anymore? jesus christ. stuff like this is exactly why i keep saying creative-anything from 2005 and onward is so lifeless; people literally cannot differentiate basic concepts from between each other anymore.

and no, we do not have to accept that no-miss is "mastery". regardless of whether garegga is meant to steal credits or not (he could be lying and you wouldn't even begin to care), the end result is a game that redefines "mastery" and rewards a very different style of play.

[AntiFritz]

ohi mauve, sorry about the mess

btw, touhou as a series is actually underrated. sad, isn't it? really sad... it's partly my fault, too...

What

[Despatche]

topics like this are proof of it. people don't play these games. you could link high score entry or gensokyo.org and i could laugh because of how meaningless they are.

sometimes i wish these were arcade games so there would be no translation patches, that might help something. i just fear that it would break something else.

[O. Van Bruce]

Nobody is reading this thread for the Touhou discusion anymore since it became a circus Despatche. Just wait till the demo release and then you can start typing capitals and nonesensical sentences again... if that makes you and your fans happy.

[Udderdude]

then you can start typing capitals and nonesensical sentences again... if that makes you and your fans happy.

Seriously, I don't know if there was even a single coherent thought in those posts he just made.

[Lord Satori]

Good god, this thread is filled with so much pointless hate it would make Emperor Palpatine orgasm.

[Despatche]

Seriously, I don't know if there was even a single coherent thought in those posts he just made.

of course there wasn't to you. you don't ever read a word i say, even though it's worth it. me not following your "netiquette" or whatever the fuck allows you to do this even easier. never mind that it's all retreading of stuff i've said before, just with 50% more caps and 100% more people pointing at it and making weird gestures. better than being completely ignored, i guess.

as for you, "lord satori", there is nothing pointless about my hate. in fact, i think we all need to sit down and actually try to read the despatche now, or just be honest and admit that you all refuse to. no, i don't feel like writing out exactly why ovb is completely useless (again) and why this thread is pointless (still) because no one's going to read it, him especially; again, it doesn't matter how i write it, because people don't play these fucking games.

although my observations tell me that ovb is trevhead, but even more destructive. terrifying creature we have here.

i do not understate trap's approval, no :3

[Yield]

Seriously, I don't know if there was even a single coherent thought in those posts he just made.

of course there wasn't to you. you don't ever read a word i say, even though it's worth it. me not following your "netiquette" or whatever the fuck allows you to do this even easier. never mind that it's all retreading of stuff i've said before, just with 50% more caps and 100% more people pointing at it and making weird gestures. better than being completely ignored, i guess.

as for you, "lord satori", there is nothing pointless about my hate. in fact, i think we all need to sit down and actually try to read the despatche now, or just be honest and admit that you all refuse to. no, i don't feel like writing out exactly why ovb is completely useless (again) and why this thread is pointless (still) because no one's going to read it, him especially; again, it doesn't matter how i write it, because people don't play these fucking games.

although my observations tell me that ovb is trevhead, but even more destructive. terrifying creature we have here.

i do not understate trap's approval, no :3

I think perhaps his criticism was more directed towards your complete lack of phrasing, proper grammar and... oh my fucking god, you're not even capitalizing the I's.

[AntiFritz]

Seriously, I don't know if there was even a single coherent thought in those posts he just made.

of course there wasn't to you. you don't ever read a word i say, even though it's worth it. me not following your "netiquette" or whatever the fuck allows you to do this even easier. never mind that it's all retreading of stuff i've said before, just with 50% more caps and 100% more people pointing at it and making weird gestures. better than being completely ignored, i guess.

as for you, "lord satori", there is nothing pointless about my hate. in fact, i think we all need to sit down and actually try to read the despatche now, or just be honest and admit that you all refuse to. no, i don't feel like writing out exactly why ovb is completely useless (again) and why this thread is pointless (still) because no one's going to read it, him especially; again, it doesn't matter how i write it, because people don't play these fucking games.

although my observations tell me that ovb is trevhead, but even more destructive. terrifying creature we have here.

i do not understate trap's approval, no :3

I really have no idea what your trying to say, at all.

[zaphod]

Isn't that "freezing gimmick" in Judgement Silversword on the last boss?

EoSD predates Judgement silversword by 2 years.

EoSD:Full: August 11, 2002

Judgement Silversword: 2004

By servicable, i mean that the art doesn't get in the way of the gameplay, and you can tell what it's supposed to be.