Rob's NES shooter countdown.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:13 pm

shiftace wrote:Entertaining list, especially Zanac at #1 given the horrible things you've said about it.

That's because you're reading it wrong, shiftace. Zanac is in last, and Silver Surfer is in first. It's a "worst" list, counting down to the worst NES shmup.

Battlesmurf · Post by **Battlesmurf** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:22 pm

haha..i think this was one of the few threads that I checked back with nearly every day. Thanks for the great read

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:33 pm

Sonic R wrote: I think one knock against Zanac is the bosses. Pretty much just a bunch of bases really. I feel Recca is have more exciting bosses.

On the surface, sure. I think the bases are really fun, though, since each tile target will be shooting out its own type of weapon. It gets a little more hectic and crowded than "remember to charge bomb at point x, release at y." A few of the Recca bosses are tough, the rest are total pushovers.

Ceph wrote:I'd like to add that you have to play Recca on the original hardware to fully appreciate it, it just doesn't look as good emulated.

PS.
Rob, is your rating Recca only 8/10 a stab at my second post? Nah, you wouldn't do that, would you?

Haha. I was switching between 8 and 9.

FRO wrote:1943 isn't even on the list, & yet it belongs in the top 10 NES shmups of all time. Bah humbug, I say. I feel cheated after all that waiting.

Hah! I wasn't about to play anything that was on Capcom Classic(s?) Collection, except for my favorite Gun.Smoke.

shiftace wrote:Entertaining list, especially Zanac at #1 given the horrible things you've said about it.

That was probably Zanac Neo. It's a pretty sad excuse for an update.

Turrican wrote:Rob, it's time for me to part from that copy of Biometal (japanese, complete). Surely you'll put it to better use than I did.

If you want it, free of any charge, pm me your address.

Also, I thought I might get called out on the "started with Zanac" thing. I made a half-hearted attempt at researching their timeline and left it (wikipedia, you suck).

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:00 pm

Final list for anyone who doesn't want to click through the pages:

Zanac - 9/10
Recca - 8/10
Gradius 2 - 8/10
Terra Cresta - 8/10
Battle Formula - 7/10
Life Force - 7/10
Abadox - 6/10
Gradius - 6/10
Adventures of Dino Riki - 6/10
Crisis Force - 6/10
S.C.A.T. - 6/10
Gyruss - 6/10
The Guardian Legend - 5/10
Gun.Smoke - 5/10
Hector 87 - 5/10
Burai Fighter - 5/10
Chuka Taisen - 5/10
Gun Nac - 5/10*
Over Horizon - 5/10
Twinbee 3 - 4/10
Twinbee - 4/10
Stinger - 4/10
King's Knight - 4/10
Star Soldier - 4/10
Silk Worm - 4/10
Macross - 4/10
Bee 52 - 4/10
Argus - 4/10
Parodius - 3/10
Galg - 3/10
Alpha Mission - 3/10
Sky Shark - 3/10
Zombie Nation - 3/10
Super Xevious - 2/10
B-wings - 2/10
Tiger Heli - 2/10
Volguard 2 - 2/10*
Exerion - 1/10
Silver Surfer - 1/10

Average: 4.3/10

Let's compare:

SNES: 3.8/10
Genesis: 4.9/10
...
DC: 7/10

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:08 pm

Sky Shark has really nice tunes by Tim Follin, I thought to mention this for anyone interested in trying these games. (on second notice, this might very well be the only "euro shmup" in that list; meaning western port of a Japanese original, of course).

And Rob, although you didn't list it, I'd like to know what you think of NES Twin Cobra. Despite the lackluster graphics, I was impressed with the overall fast pace, and quantity of bullets. Cool sound effects too. I'd like to ask the resident Twin Cobra experts as well (llabnip comes to mind).

Rob wrote:Also, I thought I might get called out on the "started with Zanac" thing. I made a half-hearted attempt at researching their timeline and left it (wikipedia, you suck).

You got the url wrong. Compile holds such a relevant place in the history of mankind that it's got its own Wikipedia, here:

http://kelesis.free.fr/

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:26 pm

Yeah, I remembered that Compile site and was sure there was something before Zanac, but it was 4-5am at that point and wanted to post it/sleep.

I'll do a few extra games that I missed, with Twin Cobra.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:36 pm

We look forward to that, it seems noone wants this thread to fade away soon

Also in the series for all the faithful readers:

SNES hidden gems tournament (repost).
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=3896

Rob's Complete list of SNES shmups.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=1796

Official Quality Guide to Genesis:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 592#176592

Updated Official Quality List:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 845#202845

(I haven't found a proper Genesis thread of yours, if you ever did it)

Also, what's the meaning of (*) near Gun°Nac and Volguard II

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:03 pm

Turrican wrote: SNES hidden gems tournament (repost).
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=3896

I was trying to bury this thread.

[Bio Metal's] most distinct feature being a clumsy shield

The * mean I need to change the score a little.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:38 pm

There's a distinct lack of Whip Rush on that Genesis/MegaDrive list.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:46 pm

It's in the updated list as an almost respectable 5/10.

Speaking of the Genesis lists, I (with the rest of the board) seriously overrate Thunder Force 3. That is nostalgia.

durias · Post by **durias** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:52 pm

Rob wrote:Final list for anyone who doesn't want to click through the pages:

Zanac - 9/10
Recca - 8/10
Gradius 2 - 8/10
Terra Cresta - 8/10
Battle Formula - 7/10
Life Force - 7/10

Attention Wii Virtual Console. Here are your marching orders. Are you listening?

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:13 pm

Rob wrote:Speaking of the Genesis lists, I (with the rest of the board) seriously overrate Thunder Force 3. That is nostalgia.

You say that every time you're away from the game for more than three weeks. Then you pop it in your genesis, and it's love at first sight all over again. So yeah, it's a lot easier than its sequel; so what? Proof that challenge alone cannot make a game's reputation.

I'm with you however, that TF II needs to be seriously re-evaluated. Awesome.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:15 am

Missing games, a selection:
-some games that were overlooked and still no 1943

Twin Cobra - 6/10
Some of the fastest action in an NES shooting game and no restarts after a death. An enjoyable Toaplan port.

Uchuu Keibitai - 4/10
Waits a few stages/10 minutes to get any good (power-ups, action) or explore visuals beyond Halley Wars-quality space, and then shot in the foot by entire level restarts after each death. Could've been decent.

Halley Wars - 3/10
10x more fun shooting at discs, see: Duck Hunt.

Gyrodine - 2/10
Proto-Under Defeat helicopter tilting, action nonexistent.

Twin Eagle - 2/10
Another contender for worst helicopter shooter.

See you Q1 2008 for my PC-Engine countdown.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:35 am

I suddenly realized that Xenocide files are missing Tecmo's "Super Star Force".

Ah, well... not a great loss not having it included in your list Rob.

Did you try that Titan Warriors rom, though?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:46 am

I just tried it since you reminded me and it's pretty good. Would place around SCAT, Crisis Force maybe? Nothing too thrilling and thankfully didn't remind me of Vulgus.

But if I play one more NES shooter I think I might die.

SFKhoa · Post by **SFKhoa** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:57 am

Rob wrote: But if I play one more NES shooter I think I might die.

Damn, there goes Xevious.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:14 am

I wasn't too impressed with what I tried of the FC Halley Wars either. From what I tried, the Game Gear one seems to be a bit faster paced and much better. They are both based on an arcade game named Halley's Comet.

Danny · Post by **Danny** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:59 am

Rob not trying to steal your thunder or anything but I feel you are missing one of my all time favrouate NES shmups. (sorry for big wad of text that aproching but I need to explain fully why I like this game so much!)

Isolated Warrior ~ Vap 1991

and yes it is a shmup before anyone starts...

Isloated Warrior is one of those forgotten treasures on the NES which I have to admit completely skipping when it first came out way back in 1991 but I did discover while randomly selecting it over my friends house when we got bored and wanted something to play. Essentaly it's an isometric Shmup and let's face it there are not to many of those on the NES. Now what makes this game kind of speical is that it may be the first ever isometric shmup beating another, more well known game to the punch by one year...

Anyway while Viewpoint played a lot like R-Type, a well established icon of the shmup gender at that time Isolated Warrior played like nothing else at that time.

The controls of this game are fairly simple, the B button is you fire button (which is auto fire, thank god!) while the A button allows you to jump. Think of this as your 'loop' button on your 1940 games for example while if you press jump again in the air you will use your 'Bomb' attack which clears enemies out of the way just like in any other shmup. Then there is the select button which allows you to change from focused shot to split shot. Both shots have to be leveled up by collected either L or W power up's and are maxed out at level 12 but don't worry because the game is fairly generious with these power ups.

The design of the game itself is fantastic. There is tons of varaity in the levels were some times you are on foot while other times you are on a hoverbike of some description. Also the enemies, they don't really let up. There are normaly plenty of enemies filling up the screen and the bosses are very big and very well designed with plenty of decent attack paterns for the player to dodge. Speaking of dodging some times the player will have to jump over holes or other obstacles using the jump button but that add's to the excitment. Also it's worth mentioning that this game also has a solid scoring system which gives you bonus points for health remaining, bomb power and bombs left so the game does actualy reward you for playing the game with some skill, not many NES games can claim they do the same.

The only forseeable downside to this game is that once you are fully powered up, speicaly with the split lazer some of the enemies on the later stages don't stand a chance in the hands of a savy vetrain shmup player. That's not to say the game is really easy (dispite the fact that it has a password system!?!) in fact is pays for the player to switch between weapons depending on the situation (focused lazer on bosses etc.) it might of been nicer if they beefed up some of the later enemies just a tiny bit more, that's all.

Overall I feel that Isolated Warrior desveres to be less Isolated and welcomed in to you NES collection right away, you won't regreat it! [8/10]

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:31 pm

Danny wrote:and yes it is a shmup before anyone starts...

Just tried it. Qualifies as shmup, the same way Knightmare and Aleste Gaiden are. Added to the xenofiles.

shinsage · Post by **shinsage** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:16 pm

Now what makes this game kind of speical is that it may be the first ever isometric shmup beating

Zaxxon.

Danny · Post by **Danny** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:39 pm

shinsage wrote:
Now what makes this game kind of speical is that it may be the first ever isometric shmup beating
Zaxxon.

Just as well I put "it may be", cheers for the correction. Now I am off to play Zaxxon!

Turrican wrote:
Danny wrote:and yes it is a shmup before anyone starts...
Just tried it. Qualifies as shmup, the same way Knightmare and Aleste Gaiden are. Added to the xenofiles.

What did you think of it then Turrican?

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:35 pm

Danny wrote:What did you think of it then Turrican?

Well, I liked the post-atomic-esque setting, but I'm not sure this kind of isometry really works in favor of the game. The actual gameplay area gets a little cramped.

@Rob: since you're evaluating Volguard II again, I thought these links might prove useful:

http://cgi.ebay.es/MSX-VOLGUARD-DB-SOFT ... 0127257625

http://cgi.ebay.com/VOLGUARD-II-FAMICOM ... 0144982912

http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Volguard_II

http://t-kun.sakura.ne.jp/fo/room02/othergame04.htm

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:43 pm

I kinda wanna start a Hi Scores Twin Cobra (NES) thread.
I just got 654510
This is a really good port, I love shooting buildings and stuff looking for the end of level bonus stars things.

Also, stuminator and I gave Volguard II a shot, it wasn't so bad, don't think we experienced the not being able to shoot thing. It's maybe a 3 or 4. Ok, 3. Damned if that ship doesn't look like a guitar.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:20 pm

Terra Cresta has an interesting sound difference between the USA release and the Japanese one (which, accordingly to copyright, came out a year later). I personally prefer much more the american sound.

I wonder if this audio change is related in any way to the two known boards of the original arcade.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:36 pm

I noticed that too. The Japanese one is more high pitched.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:45 pm

I think Terra Cresta is the real winner of the show. All the others who made in the top ten were either a given, a curiosity, or a big mistake.

And I'm still waiting a fair, suicide-bullet-enabled rating for Gun*Nac.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:56 pm

Turrican wrote:And I'm still waiting a fair, suicide-bullet-enabled rating for Gun*Nac.

"look guys IT HAS SPECIAL OPTIONS the game is really challenging if you enable them, no really, nevermind that they could have made the game actually a challenge to begin with"

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:00 am

You're right, I'm thinking about buying the PS2 release of Terra Cresta. The impressions of the Oretachi releases seem to be good and the price is also good.

Turrican wrote:or a big mistake.

Just Crisis Force, I hope.

I'll redo Gun Nac for you and Twiddle. Seriously, Turrican is right that the mode reduces the amount of crappiness by at least 70%.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:00 am

Twiddle wrote:"look guys IT HAS SPECIAL OPTIONS the game is really challenging if you enable them, no really, nevermind that they could have made the game actually a challenge to begin with"

Pfft, what's this now? A controversy against difficulty setting menu? I got it that you were dumb, but I thought you were able to mess with a couple of options...

@Rob: just Crisis, yes. I still need to practice with both Battle Formulas to see which one is better of the two. And Dino Riki, I need to try that one.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:03 am

Turrican wrote: Pfft, what's this now? A controversy against difficulty setting menu? I got it that you were dumb, but I thought you were able to mess with a couple of options...

"no carpel tunnel" mode isn't exactly an option it's disability prevention

and in doujin games named soldier force it's very easy to activate the "special feature" without intending to, since one can do so more frequently with negative effort than if one actually tried to

and don't bug me about the hitbox setting there. anyone who likes hitboxes that extend past your sprite has some form of mental disability which allows said people to enjoy games like r-type final

actually i'm going to say you have a point with the hitbox -- even though it's small by default last i played (which is an old version)