Best shmup that you DIDN'T like/enjoy

[o.pwuaioc]

I've been trying to get into Crimzon Clover on Steam. I just don't see the appeal in the game. Also, I really don't like this "collecta-thon" aspect to recent (i.e. past 20 years now!) shooters. I think that's why I liked Sturmwind so much. Great level design, great atmosphere, and just non-stop shoot-all action.

[ratsflif]

Ketsui and SDOJ, want to like them just can't do it.

[Stevens]

Also, I really don't like this "collecta-thon" aspect to recent (i.e. past 20 years now!) shooters. I think that's why I liked Sturmwind so much. Great level design, great atmosphere, and just non-stop shoot-all action.

Under Defeat has zero collecting

I dig Sturmwind too, even with its flaws.

[Gamer707b]

For me that game has to be Layer Section. Saw it on a youtube review and hearing everyone rave about it online ,I ended up buying it. Not much special there for me. I do dig the sprites though.

[ACSeraph]

For me at least the draw of Layer section beyond just being beautiful is the unusually deep scoring system for a non-bullet hell shmup. Without scoreplay it's pretty basic.

[Gamer707b]

Have you 1cced Layer Section ASseraph?

[Squire Grooktook]

I've 1cc'd it

For me at least the draw of Layer section beyond just being beautiful is the unusually deep scoring system for a non-bullet hell shmup. Without scoreplay it's pretty basic.

Disagree heavily.

The unique and super aggressive zakos spewing rng bullets in the last 3 stages, and general level design makes it a top 3 shmup (maybe top 1) of all time for me, scoring system or not.

Whether we're talking about the aggressiveness close combat aiming reticule forces, the aggressiveness of the zakos, or the tight but intuitive patterns that make me clench my teeth in gut wrenching terror every time a bullet gets close to my huge hitbox, it's easily a masterpiece. It embodies everything I like about large hitbox games and the dodging in them. Taito's (best arcade developer ever imo) magnum opus.

[Gamer707b]

Props to you for 1ccing it squire.

[Shepardus]

I would probably like RayForce more if I didn't suck so much at it. I really like almost everything about it in theory, but when I play it the aggressive enemies combined with the large hitbox always frustrate me because I always feel like I'm getting hit by stuff I could have and should have easily dodged. Also I always lose a bunch of shot powerups because of the way they fly, and I always get myself killed trying to position myself for lockons. These are all things that can be remedied by dedicated practice, but RayForce isn't exactly a game you can just casually play alongside more modern games and expect to do decently in. Also playing the first stage repeatedly always bores me, in my opinion the stages only start to get really cool from stage 3 onwards.

[Squire Grooktook]

Thanks Gamer70b

always frustrate me because I always feel like I'm getting hit by stuff I could have and should have easily dodged...These are all things that can be remedied by dedicated practice, but RayForce isn't exactly a game you can just casually play alongside more modern games and expect to do decently in.

Actually, I'd say part of getting good at, and appreciating the game, is understanding this is not the case.

Simply memorizing enemy positions or bullet patterns is not enough. Having a plan will help, but a lot of stuff is random, and the game really has more in common playstyle wise with older-shmups in its emphasis on "sight reading" over simple macro. You have to take everything seriously from stage 3 onward (I still chain die on stage 3 in 1cc shape, even when attempting to play safe for survival) and really read the patterns carefully in order to survive.

The large hitbox is not something that should be viewed as frustrating or unfair, because it's part of what makes the game feel so good. It forces you to move farther and faster, and creates a massive sense of tension on dodging. It's what makes the game so mindbogglingly visceral.

Also playing the first stage repeatedly always bores me, in my opinion the stages only start to get really cool from stage 3 onwards.

Definitely agree the first stage feels far too passive. Second stage warms up quite a bit better, I think.

[Gamer707b]

All this hype about Layer Section here is making me give it another chance.

[LordHypnos]

It strikes me that there's a lot of room for score optimization on the first stage of Layer Section, which would probably make it more interesting, but I might be wrong. I have not played it enough to really know.

[drboom]

Guwange. I love the art, OST, setting and story, but the gameplay just does not click with me. It's an absolutely beautiful game I just cannot get into playing.

[copy-paster]

Gun Frontier. First time I played it and it's total disappointment, like big hitboxes, ship moving too slow, bland graphics, and using checkpoint after dying which it's a bit weird to do in vertic shmup IMO.

[To Far Away Times]

Oh man... this thread is 10 years old.

Gradius for me.

I can see that there's some quality there, but R-Type just surpasses it in every way for me. Visually, musically, mechanically, level design, you name it. Released only a year later as well, if I recall right.

[Strikers1945guy]

Guwange. I love the art, OST, setting and story, but the gameplay just does not click with me. It's an absolutely beautiful game I just cannot get into playing.

I feel the exact same way sadly. The art and ost are simply amazing and one of caves more creative efforts, yet the gameplay is horrible (to me). I've played it on a pcb too, not mine though. This is the only cave game I wouldn't buy even if the Pcb was $50.

A few other I can think of:

- Ikaruga when playing for score (like almost everyone else)

- Radiant Silvergun is just bad. I need like 25 buttons for all the weapons and sometimes the game is soul crushingly boring at times

[CWM]

The more Cave games I play, the more my hatred for slowdown is reinforced. I like Futari less and less as I continue playing it, and a lot of that comes down to absolutely despising the slowdown (well, and the soul-crushing scoring system in BL Original, but there I can at least play a different mode). The worst of it is not so much when it happens from tons of gems being spawned - that I can at least understand, and it's somewhat predictable. It's the goddamned bullet patterns which are obviously intentionally slowed down, and then suddenly speed up at the end. Just... why.

Sorry for ranting, had to get that off my chest.

[city41]

I don't really like Guwange either, but I wouldn't pass it up at $50

I just can't get into the Raiden Fighters series. Something about it really turns me off, can't put my finger on it. The pulse pounding and incredibly annoying soundtrack does not help.

[To Far Away Times]

Guwange. I love the art, OST, setting and story, but the gameplay just does not click with me. It's an absolutely beautiful game I just cannot get into playing.

I always felt like I was missing out on Guwange. Its beautiful, creative, and just looks so well done, but the gameplay just doesn't not click with me at all. I really dislike the movement and shikigami mechanics. It's a shame, because if it played a bit more traditionally it would probably be one of CAVE's most popular titles.

[Strikers1945guy]

The more Cave games I play, the more my hatred for slowdown is reinforced. I like Futari less and less as I continue playing it, and a lot of that comes down to absolutely despising the slowdown (well, and the soul-crushing scoring system in BL Original, but there I can at least play a different mode). The worst of it is not so much when it happens from tons of gems being spawned - that I can at least understand, and it's somewhat predictable. It's the goddamned bullet patterns which are obviously intentionally slowed down, and then suddenly speed up at the end. Just... why.

Sorry for ranting, had to get that off my chest.

I agree with this for the most part. Part of the reason I'm really not enjoying Futari BL as much as 1.5 the slow down is mind numbing at times. Yes, the odd bit of slowdown helps in some cave games (Ibara stage 3 during the triple train sequence for example. But in Futari BL god mode it's like playing half the game in slow motion all the damnnnnnn time. Just me though I guess most everyone else doesn't seem to mind it.

[Squire Grooktook]

because if it played a bit more traditionally it would probably be one of CAVE's most popular titles.

The fact that it doesn't play like generic danmaku #482 is exactly why it's one of my favorite Cave games. It's like Irem made a bullet hell game.

Certainly not for everyone, but I do really enjoy how the more you play and master it, the more your Shikigami feels less like a weapon and more like a secondary player character that you're controlling at the same time. Symbiosis yo.

[copy-paster]

Fun fact that Guwange is one of Cave games I can 1-sissy it after Donpachi 1-ALL.

[Special World]

I've played Radiant Silvergun probably 2 times total because I found it to be incredibly slow and super boring. Sorry everyone.

[Squire Grooktook]

The player ship is slow yeah, but the pacing is anything but IMO. From the first boss onward the game is just busy as fuck with all those environmental hazards, traps, and boss rushes.

[o.pwuaioc]

All this hype about Layer Section here is making me give it another chance.

Layer Section is really great. In fact, because I enjoy it, I think I enjoy Souky less, if that makes any sense.

[pegboy]

I have to say I don't think I've been legitimately disappointed with any shmup that's been recommended to me or that ranks highly on those "top 25 lists on this site". Maybe I just have lower standards or something, I do play a lot of console shmups and poor man's arcade ports though

[Doctor Butler]

I agree with all of the Darius apathy on this thread.

I just don't feel it.

[MrChiggins]

Probably Dimahoo if I had to pick just one. I always suspected that it's a brilliantly designed but fairly esoteric game that maybe paved the way for things like Ikaruga which was really one of my earliest entry points into the genre.

[copy-paster]

Pink Sweets. IMO, one of THE most boring, annoying shmups ever.

Fully Agreed. Did YGW inserting the "Gradius/R-Type syndrome" here?

[trap15]

that maybe paved the way for things like Ikaruga

Ikaruga was in development at the same time, so no