Too close for comfort? the revival?

[gct]

What is this technique, does it access through the JTAG connection somehow, and is it possible to flash other ROMs onto a SH-3 board, given compatible RAM and such if there are differences between boards?

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Nobody has figured out how to do anything useful with the JTAG connector and said so publicly. A few people have tried and failed.

[Jockel]

A few people have tried and failed.

I didn't know that, any details?

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Nothing that hasn't already been posted here in the past. The graphics and program hit the JTAG chain so it seems possible to read out and upgrade a game to newer revisions through it and people assume Cave upgrades game revisions this way with custom software. So it should be possible to write custom software that can do the same thing, but nobody has been able to manage it.

[CMPXCHG8B]

Well, shit.

I have no idea what to say. Other then OMGWTFBBQ and all of that stuff.

Ibara seems to run at 100%, no issues with the sound or stuttering that I can see. Deathsmiles runs at around 95-98%, seems to sag to around 92% under heavy action. Sound doesn't seem to be affected, but then again I've never played the arcade versions of either. This is on a Mac Pro (2x Intel Xeon X5670 @ 2.93ghz, 12 cores total). Haven't tried anything else, but I probably will later on.

Full screen with a rotated LCD monitor (vertical) with a Hori controller is the bomb.

-CMPX

[Axelayer]

seems like emuCR released a 144 MamePlus!(should be the r4932) with SH-3 support,didn`t tested it yet..but that was more than obvious that someone compiles a 144 build with driver support

Ibara seems to run at 100%, no issues with the sound or stuttering that I can see. Deathsmiles runs at around 95-98%, seems to sag to around 92% under heavy action. Sound doesn't seem to be affected, but then again I've never played the arcade versions of either. This is on a Mac Pro (2x Intel Xeon X5670 @ 2.93ghz, 12 cores total). Haven't tried anything else, but I probably will later on.

Full screen with a rotated LCD monitor (vertical) with a Hori controller is the bomb.

-CMPX

do you also get those heavy stuttering in the beginning of pink sweets and muchimuchipork?as i presumed a real beastly machine is needed to run those games without issues,as is said on my 5years old mame pc, c2d 2,1 ghz,4gig ram,geforce 5900gt machine most games are dropping constantly under 100% resulting in heavy sound glitches,sounds playing twice,echoes and so on..i`ll play around with the mame settings because i think maybe there is something wonky on my machine-or maybe its win7 32bit version,i`ll try it on 64bit version this weekend

[mjclark]

seems like emuCR released a 144 MamePlus!(should be the r4932) with SH-3 support..but that was more than obvious that someone compiles a 144 build with driver support

Yes and then they've released r4933 with SH3 support withdrawn again:
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sh ... art=1&vc=1
I guess one good upshot of all this is to stimulate unofficial MAME developement so anything could happen next.

oh, and...roll on Demul 0.5.7

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

seems like emuCR released a 144 MamePlus!(should be the r4932) with SH-3 support..but that was more than obvious that someone compiles a 144 build with driver support

Yes and then they've released r4933 with SH3 support withdrawn again:
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sh ... art=1&vc=1
I guess one good upshot of all this is to stimulate unofficial MAME developement so anything could happen next.

oh, and...roll on Demul 0.5.7

Your militant "fuck Cave's wishes" attitude is mildly confusing and heavily nauseating. And your assumptions are only loosely based on reality. From what I've heard the next demul won't even have Cave support and I don't see any programmers lining up to fight Cave (not to mention mamedevs) past C&D letters just to bring you free games in a ratty ass badboy mame fork.

[cools]

A few people have tried and failed.

I didn't know that, any details?

From what I'm aware, only the program ROM is available via J-TAG. Graphics and sound ROMs are not.

[xMetalliCx]

Your militant "fuck Cave's wishes" attitude is mildly confusing and heavily nauseating. And your assumptions are only loosely based on reality. From what I've heard the next demul won't even have Cave support and I don't see any programmers lining up to fight Cave (not to mention mamedevs) past C&D letters just to bring you free games in a ratty ass badboy mame fork.

Talking about "fight Cave", well, some time ago they write complain about one of mine videos on youtube and it was deleted, but after my counter-notice I dont receive any agressive replies, and all other videos are still in place. So it was not fight, but fart from Cave's side, on practice they cant do anything, especially with our team.

From other side, that I see now ? my last "slowpoke-build" was downloaded about 300 times, such low interest to emulation is very, very far from the financial threat to games sales or company in general.

But, I know for whom emulation is a REAL threat - PCB-collectors and resellers. OMG, emulation can cause big price drop at theirs "super-duper-rare-limited-expensive" PCBs!
Who knows, maybe they just asked Cave to write this C&D letter ?

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

From what I'm aware, only the program ROM is available via J-TAG. Graphics and sound ROMs are not.

I haven't traced it out but that doesn't sound right. The graphics changed often through revisions.

on practice they cant do anything, especially with our team.

There's a difference between living in a country that doesn't respect copyright law and not respecting a company's letters. I am confused whether some people here actually like Cave or not. "We hate them so bad that we emulated their games after they told us not to do it yet so we could play the games of our enemy". It's just weird.

[xMetalliCx]

There's a difference between living in a country that doesn't respect copyright law and not respecting a company's letters. I am confused whether some people here actually like Cave or not. "We hate them so bad that we emulated their games after they told us not to do it yet so we could play the games of our enemy". It's just weird.

You are totally misunderstood me. I mean Cave, as well as other companies, have no rights (and laws) to forbid someone to emulate something. It's totally legal.
All they can - is just write letters with threats in the hope that someone is scared of them.

[cools]

From what I'm aware, only the program ROM is available via J-TAG. Graphics and sound ROMs are not.

I haven't traced it out but that doesn't sound right. The graphics changed often through revisions.

Which games?

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Well it's two separate things. One is a complicated copyright law around emulation, which, in the US case with Bleem was deemed to be legal and in Russia they don't seem to have laws for at all. The other is receiving a letter from a company asking you not to do something and then you virtually spitting in their face. Surely you can see the difference. Anyway do what you want, I just think it's a little weird to keep going after they request that you stop, if you actually like them.

[Estebang]

You are totally misunderstood me. I mean Cave, as well as other companies, have no rights (and laws) to forbid someone to emulate something. It's totally legal.
All they can - is just write letters with threats in the hope that someone is scared of them.

Emulators are legal, but roms only are if you can prove that you own a legit copy of the game. It just falls under basic copyright law.

Of course, just like in the music industry, enforcing it is a whole different matter.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

From what I'm aware, only the program ROM is available via J-TAG. Graphics and sound ROMs are not.

I haven't traced it out but that doesn't sound right. The graphics changed often through revisions.

Which games?

Mushihimesama and Pink Sweets come to mind. If you look at the crc for the graphics rom between revisions you can see when it changed.

[Nasirosuchus]

You are totally misunderstood me. I mean Cave, as well as other companies, have no rights (and laws) to forbid someone to emulate something. It's totally legal.
All they can - is just write letters with threats in the hope that someone is scared of them.

Emulators are legal, but roms only are if you can prove that you own a legit copy of the game. It just falls under basic copyright law.

Of course, just like in the music industry, enforcing it is a whole different matter.

Neither the Mame devs nor metallix are providing the roms.

I've already given my stance on the whole thing, but to add to it, not removing the games in hacks and frontends doesn't necessarily mean that people have something against Cave. Supporting a company doesn't require someone to obey its every whim.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

From other side, that I see now ? my last "slowpoke-build" was downloaded about 300 times, such low interest to emulation is very, very far from the financial threat to games sales or company in general.

Intresting, I wonder how much of it has to do with CAVE been niche and how much has to do with ppl just not knowing about it. I would expect a large proportion of ppl are like me and just havnt gotten around to updating their MAME setup.

Since the games need an newer PC to run properly. I wonder if this has actually spurred anybody on to buying the 360 games. Imo CAVE could probably make a few bucks from releasing one or 2 of their older games on PC / steam from ppl who want to play the games but dont want the hassle of MAME and digging around for ROMs or just dont have a 360

[CMPXCHG8B]

Sorry to derail the current anti-fuck-cave discussion, but I figured I'd post here instead of starting a new thread.

Is the configurable blitter rate in Slowpoke MAME an HLSL shader (unlikely, but I figured I'd make sure)- or some sort of a patch to csh3blit.c?

If it's the later and not the former (since the former is not cross-platform compatible), is there any way to obtain these changes? I'd like to roll them into my own OS X build.

-CMPX

[waxfang]

Sorry to derail the current anti-fuck-cave discussion, but I figured I'd post here instead of starting a new thread.

Is the configurable blitter rate in Slowpoke MAME an HLSL shader (unlikely, but I figured I'd make sure)- or some sort of a patch to csh3blit.c?

If it's the later and not the former (since the former is not cross-platform compatible), is there any way to obtain these changes? I'd like to roll them into my own OS X build.

-CMPX

Any chance you'd like to share that OS X build? For some reason I had trouble compiling the u9 build, but now all the 0.143 source is gone from the mamedev site, and sdlmame.parodius.com doesn't have a u9 build.

I tried u8, but it gave M+GUI a ton of fits.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Sorry to derail the current anti-fuck-cave discussion, but I figured I'd post here instead of starting a new thread.

No worries, this thread is pretty much fucked up anyway. Ideally the moral and technical discussions should have been in separate threads from the beginning

[Barrakketh]

Sorry to derail the current anti-fuck-cave discussion, but I figured I'd post here instead of starting a new thread.

Is the configurable blitter rate in Slowpoke MAME an HLSL shader (unlikely, but I figured I'd make sure)- or some sort of a patch to csh3blit.c?

If it's the later and not the former (since the former is not cross-platform compatible), is there any way to obtain these changes? I'd like to roll them into my own OS X build.

-CMPX

Blitter changes. IIRC it also uses some different "unsafe" (at least by MAME standards) threading.

[xMetalliCx]

Well it's two separate things. One is a complicated copyright law around emulation, which, in the US case with Bleem was deemed to be legal and in Russia they don't seem to have laws for at all. The other is receiving a letter from a company asking you not to do something and then you virtually spitting in their face. Surely you can see the difference. Anyway do what you want, I just think it's a little weird to keep going after they request that you stop, if you actually like them.

You are missed my point of view, I've described in my pre-previous post, again
Shortly:
if that letter was written, because emulation is a REAL financial threat (and I think it is not) to games sales - I'll stop, becasue dont want harm that company.

but, if that letter was written by someone who just sits his pants in the legal department, and did it to say - "hey guys, look, I killed emulation in MAME! I probably deserved the $bonus$!"
or by request from collectors/resellers/etc - I dont give a shit.

CMPXCHG8B
sorry, patch is private and dont be shared, especially after driver was removed from MAME.

[kevenz]

Any chance you'd like to share that OS X build? For some reason I had trouble compiling the u9 build, but now all the 0.143 source is gone from the mamedev site, and sdlmame.parodius.com doesn't have a u9 build.

hummm....download the old source from the git..... I hope they won't block the git because I said that

I gave a try to ultimate mame and its pretty good, recca runs flawlessly, hlsl didn't seems to improve much, probably because the game is mainly made of black background.

Too bad my front-end doesn't support it (Emu-Loader).

Now..... download the ultimate mame source..... re-add the sh3 driver...... remove the nag screens + hiscores support.... If i have some free time.

[xMetalliCx]

waxfang
you can get all u-diffs here

[waxfang]

Thanks, still getting the same error when I try to run "make -j3", "command not found."

Xcode & developer tools are installed, also tried reinstalling the SDL framework, I've compiled through terminal before with 0142 and it worked fine. For some reason 0143 is giving me fits. :/

edit - running snow leopard

[CMPXCHG8B]

Code: Select all

Any chance you'd like to share that OS X build? For some reason I had trouble compiling the u9 build, but now all the 0.143 source is gone from the mamedev site, and sdlmame.parodius.com doesn't have a u9 build.

Yeah, I'll start a new thread once I'm finished it with a disk image. At this exact moment I'm rewriting the brain-dead SDL template code that nobody bothered to change when MAME went full-on SDL. As such, it has some stupid issues that prevent MAME from launching from a *.app bundle (from the Finder) with any reasonable sanity. IMHO MAME on OS X should be a drag-and-drop installation, but it isn't. So Imma fix that.

CMPXCHG8B
sorry, patch is private and dont be shared, especially after driver was removed from MAME.

That's fine by me. I'll just write my own stuff then. cavesh3.c and it's friend, csh3blit.c are public. They are burned into the GIT repository commit messages of both MAME and MamePlus, so it is trivial to recover the removed code and merge it back into MAME if you have half a brain. I doubt this will change anytime soon unless more CAVE ninjas drop down from the ceilings and someone starts throwing around ninja stars with the GIT obliterate command (but that has other repercussions).

Given the fact that both of these files direly rely on support from the SH3 (SH4) core in MAME which is still actively being developed (unless they're going to drop that too, because of the CAVE thing, and all the other games that rely on it)- support for the CV1000 will only continue to improve as they work on that (cue maniacal laughter?), with or without MAME's direct involvement. The CV1000 driver does remarkably little compared to the rest of MAME that they didn't pull (because other stuff uses that).

All I wanted to do was to see what the code was, and potentially integrate it into MAME using a slider in the SDL interface that is game-specific (similar to how the default controls remap themselves depending on the game, though these are obviously overridden by any user settings that have since been configured).

So, um, yeah. Feel free to keep your patch. Especially after you just finished saying "I dun giv teh sheet if its teh legal gurus sendin da paperwork". Kinda sucks that you're going to take that attitude though. I have no problems distributing whatever builds I manage to forge off in the depths of Mordor here (because apparently I'm evil for wanting to play Ibara?), and the source code that made them.

-CMPX

[mjclark]

Your militant "fuck Cave's wishes" attitude is mildly confusing and heavily nauseating. And your assumptions are only loosely based on reality. From what I've heard the next demul won't even have Cave support and I don't see any programmers lining up to fight Cave (not to mention mamedevs) past C&D letters just to bring you free games in a ratty ass badboy mame fork.

Gosh- calm down
As IseeThings has pointed out the stimulation of MAME developement has many benefits, not just for CAVE games.
If you feel confused and nauseated by progress in emulation then get someone to cover for you running the CAVE moral watchdog committee and have a fucking day off to get some counselling.
Also ginger tea might help with the nausea.

my last "slowpoke-build" was downloaded about 300 times, such low interest to emulation is very, very far from the financial threat to games sales or company in general.

I'm surprised at how low that figure is too- 300 people constitutes quite a good Spartan army but not really much of a threat to anybody...
... except in the minds of those who imagine us all being extradited to Japan for copyright infringement before CAVE goes bust and the whole gaming industry collapses due to a man in Seattle playing Deathsmiles on his MacBook

Oh, and...roll on Demul 0.5.7

[yosai]

Mushihimesama and Pink Sweets come to mind. If you look at the crc for the graphics rom between revisions you can see when it changed.

They're palette changes and a few extra words on the title screen, right?

Ibara Kuro has a different BGM in slot 01 in the sound test.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

@yosai, I don't have a list of the changes. A friend of mine looked into it once in a custom program and told me there were "pages" of new graphics in a PS revision but I have no idea what they are or do. I'm not aware of palette swaps. I think even the blitter code changed between the Mushi revision.

@mjclark, I'm calm. Calm and nauseous. I will try the tea. I'll probably be sipping it while you and Metallica gather the rest of the Spartan army to destroy Cave's requests.