10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

[chum]

I agree, but keep in mind that there's way more of those games just bubbling under the honorable mentions (check out the full results) so it's not like they're completely forgotten. people just really like cave around here! and besides, 25 games may seem like a lot to some people, but to me naming 25 means leaving out TONS of good games so it gets pretty tough to pick and choose

[Plasmo]

Thanks, but my point still stands.

It still stands and is carried by nostaglia alone.

Games like Lords of Thunder are shockingly shallow compared to modern (from 1995 onwards) shooters. Their audiovisual presentation is admittedly quite good sometimes, but the lack of gameplay makes them rather irrelevant when nostalgic factors are ignored.

I'd love to have a top 25 list one day without complete rubbish like R-Type. Let's face it.

[Icarus]

without complete rubbish like R-Type

The door's over there. Get out. Don't let the handle hit you on the ass on the way out. :V

[Xyga]

Only my opinion but gameplay isn't everything, even for shmups...

[system11]

I'd love to have a top 25 list one day without complete rubbish like R-Type. Let's face it.

A lot of people like games for different reasons. Calling R-Type complete rubbish is impossibly narrow minded.

[nosorrow]

I love Cave games. I don't think I've tried one I utterly disliked (maybe Guwange...). Anyways, they're pretty much all awesome in my book. Same for Raizing, Takumi, Psikyo.

I also happen to adore playing games from Compile, Tecno Soft, Konami, Taito, etc. Nostalgia has got nothing to do with it Plasmo.

[professor ganson]

I'd love to have a top 25 list one day without complete rubbish like R-Type. Let's face it.

I like a bold take, especially when it comes from someone I respect like Plasmo. Often when others don't like the gameplay of a game I like (e.g. Xevious), I think it's either because I'm less expert and more easily entertained or because it's just a difference in taste (e.g. I love Xevious' risk-reward balance in scoring-- not to mention I love the look of the game). But in this case I'm not sure what to say. I suppose R-Type's gameplay is mostly about survival, memorization. So maybe this is more about taste.

[system11]

I'd love to have a top 25 list one day without complete rubbish like R-Type. Let's face it.

I like a bold take, especially when it comes from someone I respect like Plasmo. Often when others don't like the gameplay of a game I like (e.g. Xevious), I think it's either because I'm less expert and more easily entertained or because it's just a difference in taste (e.g. I love Xevious' risk-reward balance in scoring-- not to mention I love the look of the game). But in this case I'm not sure what to say. I suppose R-Type's gameplay is mostly about survival, memorization. So maybe this is more about taste.

Scoring in modern games is nearly 100% memorization, so that description of games with physical routes has always been bunk as soon as people started caring about scores and optimal scoring routes.

[Skykid]

Also a sweet justice seeing DeathSmiles drop from the top 25.

I was going to moan about Futari being ridiculously overrated until I saw Deathsmiles didn't register in the top 25. All ill-feeling suddenly evaporated. Sweet justice indeed.

[Xyga]

Who cares there will never be a 'top something' everyone will approve of anyway.
The Top 25 Shmups's goal is just to give people a quick overview of the most popular shmups period. It's not here to tell "as a fact game ranked ## is actually better than game **".

[Skykid]

Everyone knows that. I'm just as happy to see its trending popularity take a hit. Game is solidly average.

[Plasmo]

tbh I was being a bit cocky there. I'm loving R-Type myself, but compared to modern games, I'm happy how the genre has evolved. I can see how some people are disliking all older shmups. They play very differently.

[Xyga]

Really we did a 'top' on the french website as well and the same happened, there's the agnostic crowd that don't discriminate and the 'old school VS. modern' arguing modern shmups are de-facto better and the 'bullshit' / 'no u' war began.
Then when a few hardcore Cave fanboys and Touhou kids joined the discussion it turned to a battle.

You see SkyKid but I'm not sure all people really get the point of these 'top shmups' things.

[nasty_wolverine]

tbh I was being a bit cocky there. I'm loving R-Type myself, but compared to modern games, I'm happy how the genre has evolved. I can see how some people are disliking all older shmups. They play very differently.

you need to play R-Type Delta.

[tigen]

Why are people talking about the previous poll? Last one is here:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 31#p991531

Deathsmiles is alive and well in the top 25.

I think it's been discussed before but I do think the poll is a bit skewed by not combining Ibara + Ibara Kuro as one item, and also Daifukkatsu. It's not practical to expect everyone votes for both of them, who vote for one. It looks like both of those would then be in the top 10.

[nasty_wolverine]

I think it's been discussed before but I do think the poll is a bit skewed by not combining Ibara + Ibara Kuro as one item, and also Daifukkatsu. It's not practical to expect everyone votes for both of them, who vote for one. It looks like both of those would then be in the top 10.

Because the difference between DFK and DFKBL is humongous. They are practically two different games. They are sold as such also. same with Ibara and Ibara Kuro.

[dannnnn]

I think it's been discussed before but I do think the poll is a bit skewed by not combining Ibara + Ibara Kuro as one item, and also Daifukkatsu. It's not practical to expect everyone votes for both of them, who vote for one. It looks like both of those would then be in the top 10.

Agreed 100%. It's very silly IMO to separate certain black label versions from their original counterparts, but not others. Who decides if they are different enough to warrant their own entry? They should either all be combined or all be kept separate, and the former makes more sense to me since you only have 25 votes to go around.

Because the difference between DFK and DFKBL is humongous. They are practically two different games. They are sold as such also. same with Ibara and Ibara Kuro.

Almost all of the BL variants are practically different games. Deathsmiles MBL has an extra stage, an extra character, Lv.999 mode and changes to the scoring system yet is combined with Deathsmiles. Likewise, Akai Katana Shin has an extra stage (two, technically), a totally new scoring system and even a different screen format yet is combined with Akai Katana. Even Futari BL which might bear close resemblance on the surface plays very differently scoring-wise than 1.5, and what about the limited Mushi 1.5 release - is that separate or combined?

Also, the DFK 1.5 and BL ports being sold separately is a moot point because it's only due to the fact that CAVE knew they could get two releases out of it instead of one based on the inclusion of the Ketsui arrange mode bundled with DFK BL. You can still add BL to your DFK 1.5 copy as DLC and they've since been released as a double pack anyway.

[chempop]

YES, all black label votes should be combined with original releases.
I don’t care how similar DOJ and DOJ BL are and how different DFK and DFK BL are, just make a blanket rule to only vote on GAME TITLES rather than revision updates or color labels.

[tigen]

Yeah, they might change a lot of stuff but in the big picture they're still the same game, same graphics and weapons and whatnot. Especially to a casual observer, they sound and walk like the same duck.

They are sold as different boards sure but they're still revisions/edits of the same game. In an ideal world everyone would vote on every version of everything, because the differences are interesting. But practically speaking, I feel it's not very realistic to expect all voters to learn the nuances of every possible version of one game, or set about ranking the versions among the sea of other games. And yeah, it's also inconsistent. Like Batsugun Special has a different hit box and other major stuff, but it's combined into Batsugun.

[Skykid]

Why are people talking about the previous poll?

Oh yeah. What the heck is going on? Dismayed to find you've all reinstated Deathsmiles, Cave's third best hori, but the bigger picture is how ridiculous an Ikeda fest the new list is. It's almost all Cave.

[chempop]

...but the bigger picture is how ridiculous an Ikeda fest the new list is. It's almost all Cave.

It’s as if they developed most of the good shmups in the last 15 years... hmmmm....

[EmperorIng]

...but the bigger picture is how ridiculous an Ikeda fest the new list is. It's almost all Cave.

It’s as if they developed most of the good shmups in the last 15 years... hmmmm....

Or people voting haven't played a shmup made before 2000.

[Doctor Butler]

...complete rubbish like R-Type...

Only in comparison to Gradius.

[Skykid]

...but the bigger picture is how ridiculous an Ikeda fest the new list is. It's almost all Cave.

It’s as if they developed most of the good shmups in the last 15 years... hmmmm....

Or people voting haven't played a shmup made before 2000.

All this.

[Opus131]

Complaining about Cave seems to be a good way to show to others how non-conformist you are.

[Squire Grooktook]

Think ya bumped the wrong year topic kiddo~

Nothing against Cave personally. They're just not really my style. I like fast movement, and most danmaku games (which originate from Cave) are mostly based on going into a slow movement mode and micro tapping stuff. I prefer an emphasis on large hazards to get out of the way and/or patterns that reward macro dodging to keep you zig zagging about at high speed. Not to say that those kind of patterns are completely absent in Cave's style, but they're certainly not the focus (except in Dangun).

That being said Ketsui and DOJ are probably the quintessential classical danmaku games, and Dangun Feveron and Guwange are very much in line with my interests.

No way in hell is Konami still my favorite shmup dev after 2 years, lmao.