10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I agree, but keep in mind that there's way more of those games just bubbling under the honorable mentions (check out the full results) so it's not like they're completely forgotten. people just really like cave around here! and besides, 25 games may seem like a lot to some people, but to me naming 25 means leaving out TONS of good games so it gets pretty tough to pick and choose
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
It still stands and is carried by nostaglia alone.nosorrow wrote:Thanks, but my point still stands.
Games like Lords of Thunder are shockingly shallow compared to modern (from 1995 onwards) shooters. Their audiovisual presentation is admittedly quite good sometimes, but the lack of gameplay makes them rather irrelevant when nostalgic factors are ignored.
I'd love to have a top 25 list one day without complete rubbish like R-Type. Let's face it.
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
The door's over there. Get out. Don't let the handle hit you on the ass on the way out. :VPlasmo wrote:without complete rubbish like R-Type
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Only my opinion but gameplay isn't everything, even for shmups...
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
A lot of people like games for different reasons. Calling R-Type complete rubbish is impossibly narrow minded.Plasmo wrote:I'd love to have a top 25 list one day without complete rubbish like R-Type. Let's face it.
System11's random blog, with things - and stuff!
http://blog.system11.org
http://blog.system11.org
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I love Cave games. I don't think I've tried one I utterly disliked (maybe Guwange...). Anyways, they're pretty much all awesome in my book. Same for Raizing, Takumi, Psikyo.
I also happen to adore playing games from Compile, Tecno Soft, Konami, Taito, etc. Nostalgia has got nothing to do with it Plasmo.
I also happen to adore playing games from Compile, Tecno Soft, Konami, Taito, etc. Nostalgia has got nothing to do with it Plasmo.
-
professor ganson
- Posts: 5163
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:59 am
- Location: OHIO
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I like a bold take, especially when it comes from someone I respect like Plasmo. Often when others don't like the gameplay of a game I like (e.g. Xevious), I think it's either because I'm less expert and more easily entertained or because it's just a difference in taste (e.g. I love Xevious' risk-reward balance in scoring-- not to mention I love the look of the game). But in this case I'm not sure what to say. I suppose R-Type's gameplay is mostly about survival, memorization. So maybe this is more about taste.Plasmo wrote: I'd love to have a top 25 list one day without complete rubbish like R-Type. Let's face it.
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Scoring in modern games is nearly 100% memorization, so that description of games with physical routes has always been bunk as soon as people started caring about scores and optimal scoring routes.professor ganson wrote:I like a bold take, especially when it comes from someone I respect like Plasmo. Often when others don't like the gameplay of a game I like (e.g. Xevious), I think it's either because I'm less expert and more easily entertained or because it's just a difference in taste (e.g. I love Xevious' risk-reward balance in scoring-- not to mention I love the look of the game). But in this case I'm not sure what to say. I suppose R-Type's gameplay is mostly about survival, memorization. So maybe this is more about taste.Plasmo wrote: I'd love to have a top 25 list one day without complete rubbish like R-Type. Let's face it.
System11's random blog, with things - and stuff!
http://blog.system11.org
http://blog.system11.org
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
I was going to moan about Futari being ridiculously overrated until I saw Deathsmiles didn't register in the top 25. All ill-feeling suddenly evaporated. Sweet justice indeed.Vyxx wrote: Also a sweet justice seeing DeathSmiles drop from the top 25.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ALso, this is how SKykid usually posts
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Who cares there will never be a 'top something' everyone will approve of anyway.
The Top 25 Shmups's goal is just to give people a quick overview of the most popular shmups period. It's not here to tell "as a fact game ranked ## is actually better than game **".
The Top 25 Shmups's goal is just to give people a quick overview of the most popular shmups period. It's not here to tell "as a fact game ranked ## is actually better than game **".
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Everyone knows that. I'm just as happy to see its trending popularity take a hit. Game is solidly average.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ALso, this is how SKykid usually posts
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
tbh I was being a bit cocky there. I'm loving R-Type myself, but compared to modern games, I'm happy how the genre has evolved. I can see how some people are disliking all older shmups. They play very differently.
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Really we did a 'top' on the french website as well and the same happened, there's the agnostic crowd that don't discriminate and the 'old school VS. modern' arguing modern shmups are de-facto better and the 'bullshit' / 'no u' war began.
Then when a few hardcore Cave fanboys and Touhou kids joined the discussion it turned to a battle.
You see SkyKid but I'm not sure all people really get the point of these 'top shmups' things.
Then when a few hardcore Cave fanboys and Touhou kids joined the discussion it turned to a battle.
You see SkyKid but I'm not sure all people really get the point of these 'top shmups' things.
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
-
nasty_wolverine
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:44 pm
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
you need to play R-Type Delta.Plasmo wrote:tbh I was being a bit cocky there. I'm loving R-Type myself, but compared to modern games, I'm happy how the genre has evolved. I can see how some people are disliking all older shmups. They play very differently.
Elysian Door - Naraka (my WIP PC STG) in development hell for the moment
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Why are people talking about the previous poll? Last one is here:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 31#p991531
Deathsmiles is alive and well in the top 25.
I think it's been discussed before but I do think the poll is a bit skewed by not combining Ibara + Ibara Kuro as one item, and also Daifukkatsu. It's not practical to expect everyone votes for both of them, who vote for one. It looks like both of those would then be in the top 10.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 31#p991531
Deathsmiles is alive and well in the top 25.
I think it's been discussed before but I do think the poll is a bit skewed by not combining Ibara + Ibara Kuro as one item, and also Daifukkatsu. It's not practical to expect everyone votes for both of them, who vote for one. It looks like both of those would then be in the top 10.
-
nasty_wolverine
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:44 pm
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Because the difference between DFK and DFKBL is humongous. They are practically two different games. They are sold as such also. same with Ibara and Ibara Kuro.tigen wrote: I think it's been discussed before but I do think the poll is a bit skewed by not combining Ibara + Ibara Kuro as one item, and also Daifukkatsu. It's not practical to expect everyone votes for both of them, who vote for one. It looks like both of those would then be in the top 10.
Elysian Door - Naraka (my WIP PC STG) in development hell for the moment
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Agreed 100%. It's very silly IMO to separate certain black label versions from their original counterparts, but not others. Who decides if they are different enough to warrant their own entry? They should either all be combined or all be kept separate, and the former makes more sense to me since you only have 25 votes to go around.tigen wrote:I think it's been discussed before but I do think the poll is a bit skewed by not combining Ibara + Ibara Kuro as one item, and also Daifukkatsu. It's not practical to expect everyone votes for both of them, who vote for one. It looks like both of those would then be in the top 10.
Almost all of the BL variants are practically different games. Deathsmiles MBL has an extra stage, an extra character, Lv.999 mode and changes to the scoring system yet is combined with Deathsmiles. Likewise, Akai Katana Shin has an extra stage (two, technically), a totally new scoring system and even a different screen format yet is combined with Akai Katana. Even Futari BL which might bear close resemblance on the surface plays very differently scoring-wise than 1.5, and what about the limited Mushi 1.5 release - is that separate or combined?nasty_wolverine wrote: Because the difference between DFK and DFKBL is humongous. They are practically two different games. They are sold as such also. same with Ibara and Ibara Kuro.
Also, the DFK 1.5 and BL ports being sold separately is a moot point because it's only due to the fact that CAVE knew they could get two releases out of it instead of one based on the inclusion of the Ketsui arrange mode bundled with DFK BL. You can still add BL to your DFK 1.5 copy as DLC and they've since been released as a double pack anyway.
Observer wrote:WELCOME TO VIOLENT CITY. That's all the storyline I need.
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
YES, all black label votes should be combined with original releases.
I don’t care how similar DOJ and DOJ BL are and how different DFK and DFK BL are, just make a blanket rule to only vote on GAME TITLES rather than revision updates or color labels.
I don’t care how similar DOJ and DOJ BL are and how different DFK and DFK BL are, just make a blanket rule to only vote on GAME TITLES rather than revision updates or color labels.
"I've had quite a few pcbs of Fire Shark over time, and none of them cost me over £30 - so it won't break the bank by any standards." ~Malc
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Yeah, they might change a lot of stuff but in the big picture they're still the same game, same graphics and weapons and whatnot. Especially to a casual observer, they sound and walk like the same duck.
They are sold as different boards sure but they're still revisions/edits of the same game. In an ideal world everyone would vote on every version of everything, because the differences are interesting. But practically speaking, I feel it's not very realistic to expect all voters to learn the nuances of every possible version of one game, or set about ranking the versions among the sea of other games. And yeah, it's also inconsistent. Like Batsugun Special has a different hit box and other major stuff, but it's combined into Batsugun.
They are sold as different boards sure but they're still revisions/edits of the same game. In an ideal world everyone would vote on every version of everything, because the differences are interesting. But practically speaking, I feel it's not very realistic to expect all voters to learn the nuances of every possible version of one game, or set about ranking the versions among the sea of other games. And yeah, it's also inconsistent. Like Batsugun Special has a different hit box and other major stuff, but it's combined into Batsugun.
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Oh yeah. What the heck is going on? Dismayed to find you've all reinstated Deathsmiles, Cave's third best hori, but the bigger picture is how ridiculous an Ikeda fest the new list is. It's almost all Cave.tigen wrote:Why are people talking about the previous poll?
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ALso, this is how SKykid usually posts
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
It’s as if they developed most of the good shmups in the last 15 years... hmmmm.......but the bigger picture is how ridiculous an Ikeda fest the new list is. It's almost all Cave.
"I've had quite a few pcbs of Fire Shark over time, and none of them cost me over £30 - so it won't break the bank by any standards." ~Malc
-
EmperorIng
- Posts: 5072
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:22 am
- Location: Chicago, IL
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Or people voting haven't played a shmup made before 2000.chempop wrote:It’s as if they developed most of the good shmups in the last 15 years... hmmmm.......but the bigger picture is how ridiculous an Ikeda fest the new list is. It's almost all Cave.
DEMON'S TILT [bullet hell pinball] - Music Composer || EC2151 ~ My FM/YM2612 music & more! || 1CC List || PCE-CD: The Search for Quality
-
Doctor Butler
- Posts: 612
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:06 pm
- Location: New Jersey
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Only in comparison to Gradius.Plasmo wrote: ...complete rubbish like R-Type...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE1Tf_ ... uswTsH5Mpw - Gaming Videos http://doctorbutler.tumblr.com/ - Other Nonesense
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
All this.EmperorIng wrote:Or people voting haven't played a shmup made before 2000.chempop wrote:It’s as if they developed most of the good shmups in the last 15 years... hmmmm.......but the bigger picture is how ridiculous an Ikeda fest the new list is. It's almost all Cave.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ALso, this is how SKykid usually posts
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Complaining about Cave seems to be a good way to show to others how non-conformist you are.
-
Squire Grooktook
- Posts: 5969
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:39 am
Re: 10th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results
Think ya bumped the wrong year topic kiddo~
Nothing against Cave personally. They're just not really my style. I like fast movement, and most danmaku games (which originate from Cave) are mostly based on going into a slow movement mode and micro tapping stuff. I prefer an emphasis on large hazards to get out of the way and/or patterns that reward macro dodging to keep you zig zagging about at high speed. Not to say that those kind of patterns are completely absent in Cave's style, but they're certainly not the focus (except in Dangun).
That being said Ketsui and DOJ are probably the quintessential classical danmaku games, and Dangun Feveron and Guwange are very much in line with my interests.
No way in hell is Konami still my favorite shmup dev after 2 years, lmao.
Nothing against Cave personally. They're just not really my style. I like fast movement, and most danmaku games (which originate from Cave) are mostly based on going into a slow movement mode and micro tapping stuff. I prefer an emphasis on large hazards to get out of the way and/or patterns that reward macro dodging to keep you zig zagging about at high speed. Not to say that those kind of patterns are completely absent in Cave's style, but they're certainly not the focus (except in Dangun).
That being said Ketsui and DOJ are probably the quintessential classical danmaku games, and Dangun Feveron and Guwange are very much in line with my interests.
No way in hell is Konami still my favorite shmup dev after 2 years, lmao.
Aeon Zenith - My STG.RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................
Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.