Psikyo > Cave

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CHOOSE ze best

Super cool Psikyo!
66
26%
Ultra lame Cave!
185
74%
 
Total votes: 251

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shinsage
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Post by shinsage »

Sonic R wrote: ouch! What do you do?
shmuppin pre-PS2 era. The Saturn helped quite a bit.

Also, 102 votes in the poll, wtf? I'm surprised there are that many members.
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Zaarock
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Post by Zaarock »

shinsage wrote:
Sonic R wrote: ouch! What do you do?
shmuppin pre-PS2 era. The Saturn helped quite a bit.

Also, 102 votes in the poll, wtf? I'm surprised there are that many members.
Cave lurkers, aye.
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seattlexc
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Post by seattlexc »

cave lurkers FTW!!!
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Neon
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Post by Neon »

my leg itches
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PROMETHEUS
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Post by PROMETHEUS »

It's kinda "gg no re" ^_^
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evil_ash_xero
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Post by evil_ash_xero »

I've just started MAME-ing lately, and I have had the oppurtunity to start playing Psikyo and Cave games. The only opportunity I had to do this before was with my one Strikers game for Saturn.

I'm gonna have to go with Cave, all the way. I have problems with some of their games(they can get to be a bit much at times). But overall, I find there is no comparison, in terms of fun, style, and playability. Psikyo games I find are very "standard". No real innovation or anything to keep my interest. Not only that, they are ALL THE SAME. Even the bosses! It kind of blows my mind. I mean, do they all have to explode and then a smaller guy pops up out of them...every time? I dunno, I don't get it.

Cave aren't perfect, but they have some of the most interesting shooters I have played in recent memory(ESPRade, DoDonPachi, and Guwange in particular...although Guwange has so many bullets in it kind of makes the game a bit of a chore).

But anyway, that's my two cents. Hope I don't piss off any Psikyo fans. Just my opinion.

s/m
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Rob
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Post by Rob »

evil_ash_xero wrote:Psikyo games I find are very "standard". No real innovation or anything to keep my interest. Not only that, they are ALL THE SAME. Even the bosses!
I think it would be a mistake to lump in their early output with 97-00. The early games don't compare. Yeah, the appeal is in "standard" shooting and dodging (no-nonsense, little to no filler, very fast). Though I'm not sure what a "real innovation" is if it doesn't include Dragon Blaze. Did you play that? Games like Space Bomber and Sol Divide also have unique elements, problem is that they aren't very good. Their basic idea with the rest was refining a simple idea so later games are far more refined, as much as any Cave game refines their own formula. They did innovate, it was just a slow process that can't be picked up as much from a quick session in MAME.

If fast action doesn't appeal to you and you have to have elaborate scoring systems... But if that isn't the case, dig further.

I'll use this occasion to link these again:
Psikyo
Cave
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EOJ
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Post by EOJ »

evil_ash_xero wrote:Psikyo games I find are very "standard". No real innovation or anything to keep my interest. Not only that, they are ALL THE SAME. Even the bosses! It kind of blows my mind. I mean, do they all have to explode and then a smaller guy pops up out of them...every time? I dunno, I don't get it.
Haha, I totally agree. Psikyo made one good game, and that is Zero Gunner 2. The rest of their stuff feels like the SAME game with different sprites (even the hori stuff like Sengoku Blade). There's a reason why they went out of business and Cave is making money hand over fist, and it's not very hard to figure out.
But anyway, that's my two cents. Hope I don't piss off any Psikyo fans. Just my opinion.

s/m
It's quite a good opinion. :wink:
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Rob
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Post by Rob »

Zero Gunner 2 is retarded compared to even Strikers 1999. Multi-direction shooters are really cool but that game is too simple, too easy. Sengoku Blade is just as lame as Strikers I, don't be fooled by graphics (a lot to ask, I know). :)
TWE wrote:There's a reason why they went out of business and Cave is making money hand over foot, and it's not very hard to figure out.
Psikyo should never have abandoned tasteless big breasted characters. I mean, as soon as they included a tastefully designed female character (Sonia) the arcade scene disowns them.
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JoshF
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Post by JoshF »

Cave refines the mechanics within the series of games, Psikyo games are sequels to the previous game no matter what the title is (except for their shitty experiments, but even they have lots of similarities.)
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PROMETHEUS
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Post by PROMETHEUS »

evil_ash_xero wrote:Psikyo games I find are very "standard". No real innovation or anything to keep my interest. Not only that, they are ALL THE SAME. Even the bosses! It kind of blows my mind. I mean, do they all have to explode and then a smaller guy pops up out of them...every time? I dunno, I don't get it.
yeah I totally agree too~
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Nuke
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Post by Nuke »

Yeah, we all know that every Cave game ever made is totally original and Psikyo never did anything but copy/paste Galaga :roll:
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IlMrm
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Post by IlMrm »

Rob wrote: I think it would be a mistake to lump in their early output with 97-00.
Couldn't agree more. Dragon Blaze, S1999 and GB2 are great games.
evil_ash_xero wrote:No real innovation or anything to keep my interest.
Learing to TB the TB-able bosses in S1999 and Dragon Blaze(14 total correct me if I am wrong) should be interesting enough. And if you try it with all the characters...

Both company have their own style. I like them both, and I appreciate their games.
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evil_ash_xero
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Post by evil_ash_xero »

I'll tell you, I really don't like ragging on a company who devotes almost all their time to shooters. But for me personally, their stages and (primarily)their enemy patterns and bullet patterns are just too straight forward. It reminds me of more colorful versions of "1942". That's what bothers me the most(well, that and the sameness of their games). Maybe they could have thrown in some more interesting weapons or something. I dunno.

Shooters are one of my favorite genres, and the one I play the most, but it's very easy to make bland shooters, if they are too simple(and not in an Ikaruga way-which was pretty cool). That's what I think of when I think of Psikyo. Cave's games can be too "busy", but they don't bore me at all. Now of course, this is personal taste. But I don't think anyone can argue too much that Psikyo games are a bit too similar. I don't think Cave are flawless, but even when I first started playing their games I was impressed with the style and innovation(even while being initially turned off by their difficulty). Now, I haven't played a lot of their later games yet, so I can't comment on those. I still don't like DOJ much though. It's "too much" for me.

s/m
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Post by Never_Scurred »

-99 vote for Cave from me. Paying $200-$1200 for a 2d game is ridiculous. Doubly so if you bought it second hand.
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Post by Twiddle »

they're meant to be put in cabs to make money from, hence the price
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Rob
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Post by Rob »

evil_ash_xero wrote:Maybe they could have thrown in some more interesting weapons or something.
You keep posting criticisms and I keep feeling you haven't played anything but the Strikers 1945 I you have/had for Saturn. Strikers 1945 II has its share of interesting weapons in the form of charge attacks.
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Post by louisg »

I can't find the 'neither' box to check! Help!
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-Bridget-
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Post by -Bridget- »

I have to vote for Cave as well.


Now, dont get me wrong, I do indeed like Psikyo. I've been playing the Strikers series to death lately, with my goal being to 1cc the lot of them.

They're addictive, they're fast as heck, and huge bosses that just refuse to die threaten you with crazy bullet sprays and what I call "wacky bullet" attacks, similar to what Progear loves to do (Well, Strikers 2 and beyond anyway). Not sure that made sense, but *I* understand it, lol.

And while I like a complex scoring system, Psikyo's more traditional "simpler" ones are a nice change from Cave's complicated things. I have no problems with Striker's scoring; blow stuff up, get points. Grab gold at the exact right time, get MORE points. Trying to do THAT while avoiding chaotic attacks adds more challenge, even.


At the same time, though, I still just like Cave's stuff more.


Firstly, Im just used to the more manic, "bullet hell" type games. Straying from that is a bit difficult for me (till I get used to it). Added a bit of frustration to trying out the Strikers games.

Secondly, Cave's stuff just tends to be more interesting. I'll take Progear as an example, because it's a favorite of mine. The scoring system, while complex and confusing at first, makes perfect sense with a bit of practice, and in my opinion, adds more strategy and depth to the game. And the bosses..... Bosses in a Cave game are often truly epic fights; you versus a massive baddie that can throw 1000000 more shots out than you can.... Taking one down is an accomplishment. And the challenge never stops. You can always go further, or change the difficulty as you want, or whatever...... Mushihime was the first game by Cave that I ever played (the PS2 port), and I still play it very, very regularly to this day. It was great to begin with, and now that Im alot better at it, well, now it's even more great; but Im not even close to doing all that it has to offer.


And third, there's just something a bit more impressive about bullet-hell titles, to me. Now, that's just my opinion, but still. They are an incredible challenge, and that is something I just cant resist.




I like BOTH developers....... alot. But Cave edges out Psikyo a bit, so they have my vote.
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evil_ash_xero
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Post by evil_ash_xero »

Rob wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:Maybe they could have thrown in some more interesting weapons or something.
You keep posting criticisms and I keep feeling you haven't played anything but the Strikers 1945 I you have/had for Saturn. Strikers 1945 II has its share of interesting weapons in the form of charge attacks.
Well, i'll stop with the critiques, but I have played Strikers I, II, and III. Gunbird I and II, and Dragon Blaze.

Also, I don't know why you "keep feeling" that i've only played Strikers I, since I spoke of "the sameness of their games" and about the boss battles in their other titles being the same. Just because I thought perhaps they could have used some more "interesting weapons", doesn't mean I have only played one game.

s/m
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Rob
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Post by Rob »

I humbly suggest playing Dragon Blaze for a few more hours. Maybe take a look at the related threads in the strategy section. Use the dragon shot effectively, try to get some tech bonuses, check out the various magic/charge attacks for each character (on and off the dragon).

You've got four/five different basic attacks for each character: the dragon shot, unique bombs, and two different magic attacks + regular shot. Seems like plenty of attack variety to me? If that isn't enough, then compared to what?
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Post by evil_ash_xero »

Well, when I said "they could add some more interesting weapons", it was kind of thinking out loud of what they could do to spice up their games.

I just find the overall game design dull, so I doubt the extra weapons would help. I was just playing "Gunbird 2", and realised that I don't think it would help. It's just not for me.

I mean, perhaps having the game scroll to the side on a part(like in 19xx), or big boss battles like in Cave games, or even like the ones in Raiden Fighters(which I also find to be kinda dull)or even having parts where you have to weave through(Treasure games, most side scrolling shooters)...just little things would spice up the experience a bit. But they're done, and from the 6 games I have played, they didn't do enough to entice me(or stay in business). They have their fans though.

s/m
Last edited by evil_ash_xero on Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Psikyo > Cave

Post by Ed Oscuro »

I'm with shinsage. Sticking it to Cave, and not just to piss icycalm off (god bless his rat hide, whatever's stuck to it at the moment)
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Ayanami
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Post by Ayanami »

evil_ash_xero wrote:or big boss battles like in Cave games,
Their are tons of big boss battles in Psykio games. Plus they have second forms! Come on!
evil_ash_xero wrote:or even having parts where you have to weave through(Treasure games, most side scrolling shooters)...just little things would spice up the experience a bit.
The main focus on Psykio games are the bullet patterns. You have to weave through them like mad to beat the game.

Why don't ya just say I want the screen to be flooded in slower moving bullets?
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JoshF
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Post by JoshF »

The main focus on Psykio games is the bullet pattern.
:lol:
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Post by MikeB »

Not much of a contest really is it?

Especially seeing as Psikyo have not produced anything since 2001...
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JoshF
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Post by JoshF »

They started being great so late in the game not even mahjong porn could save them. It would be interesting to see where they would've went after those last couple of games.
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Post by MikeB »

Yeah they were just hitting their stride. Dragon Blaze, Zero Gunner 2 and even Strikers 1999 were very accomplished titles by a company at the top of their game, shame that potential never had a chance to be developed.
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Post by Frederik »

Cave should hire whoever was responsible for the Psykio/Sonic Wings-style and produces games like that as they did with Yagawa.

...and then Ketsui gets ported to a Tiger Electronics wristwatch.
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Post by Pirate1019 »

FrederikJurk wrote:...and then Ketsui gets ported to a Tiger Electronics wristwatch.
At least I'd have something interesting to do while I was out on a long run for Cross Country.
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