Best shmup that you DIDN'T like/enjoy

[ProjectAKo]

Best shmup that you DIDN'T like/enjoy

Any shmup I don't like is bad

[broken harbour]

Darius Gaiden - Try as I might, I can't get into it, maybe it's the rank, I dunno.... I just can't seem to get good at it.

Weird considering how much I love G-Darius.

[ZaKa-tokyobassist]

R-Type Final is content rich but it's so damn bleak visually and coming from Yuki Iwai who composed the excellent Mega Man X2, the soundtrack was sleep inducing. In fact the only R-Type I like is Delta.

Darius Gaiden is a good game but something doesn't click with me with that game. Might have to do with that weird OST and the mood puts me in.

Musha is apart from the soundtrack offers nothing for me. Feels like the hype is more about the rarity more than its value as a shmup. I liked Super Aleste a lot more.

Not a fan of anything Touhou (aside from Gensou Rondo), Thunder Force IV, Mars Matrix, Layer Section, Ibara, the Raiden series (aside from IV Overkill) or Metal Black either.

On the positive note I don't like bullet hells but Ketsui, Batsugun, Mushihimesama Futari, and Jamestown Plus are fucking awesome games.

[Doctor Butler]

Darius.

Idk, I just can't feel it.

[Stevens]

I'm not a fan of Raystorm and its shitty drifting ship.

[ACSeraph]

R-Type

All the things I hate from Darius II with none of the good. That atmosphere is incredible though...

Mind elaborating on this a little? R-Type is a pretty vanilla, forgiving game. I'm kind of surprised to hear a comparison to it with Darius 2.

Don't get me wrong, Darius II is one of the most aggressively hateful shmups ever created, but that just makes me want to kick its ass all the more.

If I had a complaint about Darius II it's how much of it comes down to memorizing cheap deaths. Every Darius game is like this, but II offers less room for creativity imo. It makes up for this by being fast, exciting, and messy.

R-Type on the other hand also feels like precise memorization, but without the speed and excitement. I think the charge shot system especially extends the memorization factor from dodging for survival to actual memorized offense. Charge here shoot now. DII uses a more traditional point blank and then get dafuq out risk/reward system that puts the player more in the moment.

I don't think R-Type is a bad game, just not for me. My aversion to the "do it this way or fuck off" style extends to other games too, and is why I'll never play a DDP game for score.

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^ One main question, are you referring to R-Type the series or R-Type, the first game?

Because IMO, the first R-Type is not very memorization heavy at all, and has a fair number of random elements that make it somewhat improvisation heavy. The lower charge shot time also contributes to this.

I also think that memorization is somewhat overestimated in the R-Type series. It's more the recoveries that require strict routing, but simply playing through at full power does not often require a strict route in my experience.

[ACSeraph]

I actually agree, R-Type in general doesn't require as much memorization as Darius II, at least initially. But is also doesn't offer much beyond the memorization and route. At least the beginning is like that, and I can't stick with it for long. It lacks the mess! The chaos that defines Darius II! From the second half of the first stage of Darius II, on top of the required memo, the whole route through the fireball field feels like it's hanging on a fraying thread. You are always milliseconds away from a totally chaotic situation. That's what R-Type lacks for me.

Granted I havent finished any of them or played Delta, so it may be that the slow start has caused me to never see the good part.

[Squire Grooktook]

I actually agree, R-Type in general doesn't require as much memorization as Darius II, at least initially. But is also doesn't offer much beyond the memorization and route. At least the beginning is like that, and I can't stick with it for long. It lacks the mess! The chaos that defines Darius II! From the second half of the first stage of Darius II, on top of the required memo, the whole route through the fireball field feels like it's hanging on a fraying thread. You are always milliseconds away from a totally chaotic situation. That's what R-Type lacks for me.

R-Type 1's first half requires neither memorization nor tight reflexes, but the second half is considerably more chaotic and intense. I'd recommend spending more time with it, it's much more of an easy going game then later installments, but still has some very special moments.

[Skykid]

For some reason I could never get into Psyvariar 2, even though I loved the original. Weird.

[MoreorLess]

^^^ One main question, are you referring to R-Type the series or R-Type, the first game?

Because IMO, the first R-Type is not very memorization heavy at all, and has a fair number of random elements that make it somewhat improvisation heavy. The lower charge shot time also contributes to this.

I also think that memorization is somewhat overestimated in the R-Type series. It's more the recoveries that require strict routing, but simply playing through at full power does not often require a strict route in my experience.

I would say stage 6 is the only one with some memorisation needed and even then you can often see the movement pattern of those big machine things in advance. Most of the enemy positions don't need to be memorised so much as you need to learn to stay away from the back of the screen or open areas at the top/bottom.

It did seem to me that things changed when the series went to console original games, been years since I'v played R-type 3 but I remember it having a good deal more memorisation than R-type 2 which was only slightly more than the original. Maybe it was the programers leaving for Aicom as well? certainly I found Pulstar more in the spirit of the original game than I did the latter sequals with the focus mostly on destroying enemy ships and a fast charge shot that can be used though out the game.

[louisg]

People here seem to love Gradius V and MUSHA, and those never really clicked for me. Same with a lot of Cave stuff-- they're obviously well-crafted but I just don't enjoy them the way I enjoy other shmups. I also recognize that GunBird II is well-done, but I totally hate that game heheheh.. so frustrating!

[Oniros]

Pink Sweets
Daifukkatsu 1.5
And the one that's just objectively bad: Reflex

[dink]

Mars Matrix - I keep going back to it though, to try to realize why people like it so much. Perhaps some day....
Darius(es)
3d shooters - all of them.

[ciox]

For some reason I could never get into Psyvariar 2, even though I loved the original. Weird.

Revision has better gameplay, more content and more features so there's not much that's weird about it.

[royalfan84]

I do think MUSHA is a bit overrated...not a bad game just I've found about 20 games from that era and back that I enjoy a lot more.

I enjoy almost all shmups, perhaps some not as much as others initially....but often when I come back to it again it clicks.

Raystorm is probably the one of disliked the most, but even that one I've got some enjoyment out of.

[Urabutbl]

DoDopnPachi SaiDaiOuJou. Can't stand it, as for dome reason my brain keeps telling me the hitbox is slightly to the side of where it actually is, unless I stare right at it.

[LordHypnos]

I think that I kind of feel this way about Touhou games that I've played with the possible exception of Great Fairy Wars. Even GFW, though, has way too complicated of a control scheme (but otherwise I remember liking it quite a bit). Not that I don't enjoy them at all, but I just can't seem to get into them enough to actually try to improve. I can't figure out why I don't like them. It might be partially the pacing, but it's not like they're that slowly paced.

I also have a similar experience with Crimzon Clover: World Ignition. Just doesn't draw me in at all, and I can't put words to why. Should probably give it another spin one of these days and see if that's changed.

I also don't like Kamui at all mostly due to the fact that you have to stop shooting to activate the homing attack (only way you can hit background enemies) thus rendering yourself vulnerable to bumping into zakos and also just being too much for me to think about while also trying to react to the stuff onscreen. This is in stark contrast to in rayforce, where the lock on is actually passive, and you can fire the homing lasers without stopping using your normal shot. The former is a nice perk, but the latter is actually important to my enjoyment. Additionally I don't like the life bar and the lack of feedback from getting hit. Makes me feel like a bullet sponge. To me these are design flaws, but apparently there are a lot of people who are okay with them (just considering how popular the game is). I feel like there were some other things that annoyed me in the game, too, but can't remember specifics.

I feel similarly about RefleX, except that I actually enjoy the weapons system. The only issue there is that the shield doesn't protect you from zakos, only bullets. This is unlike every other reflect 'em up that I can think of. I get that the shield would be OP without that particular nerf, but I feel like designing it around also protecting you from enemies would have been better, at least for me. Bullet sponge feelinbg is slightly less due to a smaller number of hit points per life, but there is still insufficient feedback, IMO. Also there are enemies that come at you from behind and can damage you on contact eventually, and I don't recall them being well telegraphed if at all. Compare the really obvious telegraphing of enemies coming from behind in Touhou LLS stage 4, or the way that most CAVE games will only send ground based enemies at you from behind.

[trap15]

I also have a similar experience with Crimzon Clover: World Ignition. Just doesn't draw me in at all, and I can't put words to why. Should probably give it another spin one of these days and see if that's changed.

Try Boost mode. I don't particularly like the game on any of the other modes (though Time Attack is neat), and always passed on the game because of them. Boost mode has made me a believer.

[pokemon123]

i'm starting to find that i basically don't like horizontal shooters at all tried both g darius and darius 2 and instantly disliked both of them as well as deathsmiles and progear as well.

I will try more but don't have high hopes as gradius didn't look appealing to me at all but rtype looked kind of interesting

[copy-paster]

i'm starting to find that i basically don't like horizontal shooters at all tried both g darius and darius 2 and instantly disliked both of them as well as deathsmiles and progear as well.

I will try more but don't have high hopes as gradius didn't look appealing to me at all but rtype looked kind of interesting

definitely Darius 2 is the worst in the series IMO, right up with Darius Force.

[dunpeal2064]

i'm starting to find that i basically don't like horizontal shooters at all tried both g darius and darius 2 and instantly disliked both of them as well as deathsmiles and progear as well.

I will try more but don't have high hopes as gradius didn't look appealing to me at all but rtype looked kind of interesting

I generally am not as big a fan of horis either, but there were a few that stood out to me. Border Down, Sengoku Blade, Zed Blade, and P47 Aces rank fairly high for me. Might be worth checking em out if you haven't.

[Shepardus]

I also don't like most horis, but for me it's more due to their age than their orientation, as I don't like most shmups in general from before the mid-90s, whether horizontal or vertical, and the few horis I have liked (G-Darius, Progear, Deathsmiles, Darius Gaiden to a lesser extent) are all from the mid-90s and later. Horis do tend to be older games though since that's when they were most popular relative to vertical shooters.

Progear and Deathsmiles in particular play more closely to other CAVE games than most other horis, and like many CAVE games they might not really click until you've gotten a good understanding of their scoring mechanics.

[Perikles]

If I had a complaint about Darius II it's how much of it comes down to memorizing cheap deaths. Every Darius game is like this, but II offers less room for creativity imo. It makes up for this by being fast, exciting, and messy.

Having played the arcade Darius II recently myself I don't think it requires much memorization at all. Aside from the atrocious maneuverability of the Silver Hawk which does indeed require a few special preparations there's really not too much to worry about. I would define a "cheap death" as something that you cannot possibly avoid on your first try other than through sheer luck (like a giant laser beam that instantly travels the entire screen or a ceiling that all of a sudden comes down with breackneck speed). There's nothing of that sort in Darius II. A few fairly tough bosses and tricky set-ups (like those containers that spray bullets upon destroying them) do not equal cheap deaths, I think. I still strongly prefer the MD version of the game, though - I'm decidedly enthusiastic on being able to move around my ship at a comfortable pace.

[_rm_]

In terms of hori shooters, besides the ones mentioned, Blazing Star is one of my favorites.

But there are also some good old school ones, for example Thunder Cross 1 and 2 or Hellfire.

[Squire Grooktook]

Horizontal...vertical...same shit, different perspective.

[Quantium]

Pink Sweets. IMO, one of THE most boring, annoying shmups ever.

[Satan]

R-Type, also Ikaruga.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Never could get on with anything by Konami or Irem. The former extends beyond shmups as well.

I've come around to Battle Garegga, so maybe there is hope...

[MoreorLess]

I also don't like most horis, but for me it's more due to their age than their orientation, as I don't like most shmups in general from before the mid-90s, whether horizontal or vertical, and the few horis I have liked (G-Darius, Progear, Deathsmiles, Darius Gaiden to a lesser extent) are all from the mid-90s and later. Horis do tend to be older games though since that's when they were most popular relative to vertical shooters.

Progear and Deathsmiles in particular play more closely to other CAVE games than most other horis, and like many CAVE games they might not really click until you've gotten a good understanding of their scoring mechanics.

As you say I think its more down to style than direction of play since a horizontal game can easily play in a very similar fashion to a vertical one and vice versa, Ikargua for example has a lot more tactical play and scenery rather than bullet dodging or before that something like Super Aleste/Space Megaforce.

The real difference I would say is that is that shoot em ups generally shifted more towards the hardcore bullet dodgy market in the late 90's, not without there tactical side of course but its normally focused on scoring where as previously it was focused on survival. The more mainstream games of the late 80's and early 90's or those from Treasure a bit latter also tended to have more of a focus on atmosphere.