Too close for comfort? the revival?

[IseeThings]

I tried a bit of Pink Sweets against my own PCB (2006/04/06 MASTER VER.) and there are a number of strange differences, other than the lack of slowdown.

Might be a different revision indeed. There were 4 or 5 in total, with at least two of them stupidly obscure.

The secret test mode appears to tell you the exact build date and revision of each Pink Sweets set. I'd be surprised if two sets with the same period markings were different, although we did see that on DOJ so .....

Pink Sweets - Ibara Sorekara (2006/04/06 MASTER VER.) - reports 06. 4. 6 ver


Pink Sweets - Ibara Sorekara (2006/04/06 MASTER VER...) - reports 06. 5. 2 ver


Pink Sweets - Ibara Sorekara (2006/04/06 MASTER VER....) - reports 06. 5.17 ver


note, this would also put the one period version as the first release, as the build date matches the 'master ver' date, unless there was a 0 period version released on the SAME day, which seems unlikely.

I wouldn't rule out Pink Sweets storing session data in the EEPROM tho, which could alter a 'cold start'.

[moozooh]

Apart (?) from those, EOJ's site also lists a version from 2006/05/19:

05/19/06 – Pink Sweets ~ Ibara Sorekara – AMI – SH3 – Japan – Ver 2 – Removes infinite lives trick, fixes some bugs

No infinite lives is probably the best distinguishing feature; no idea what the amount of dots after "VER" should be there. If there is a mistake in EOJ's data it could refer to the three dot version the second screenshot corresponds to (somebody should savestate through it to see if the IL are there).

There's also some special occasion revision from 2008 with gameplay changes, but little is known about it.

[IseeThings]

2006/05/19 would put it just 2 days after the 4 dot release.

I imagine there is a 2 dot release too unless it's internal, the gap between 1 dot and 3 dot is comparatively large.

there are also at least 2 xx/xx/xx versions.

as with the PGM based stuff I encourage people with the PCBs to check their versions.

[Korszca]

The 2006/04/06 MASTER VER. and 2006/04/06 MASTER VER.... have the infinite lives trick for sure.
I have the 2006/04/06 MASTER VER. PCB and 2006/04/06 MASTER VER. MAME ROMs. They match in every way.

Yet I still have those inconsistencies between PCB and MAME that (I would have to imagine) don't relate to MAME's lack of slowdown.

I wouldn't rule out Pink Sweets storing session data in the EEPROM tho, which could alter a 'cold start'.

This doesn't seem likely at all, what makes you come to that conclusion?

[ebarrett]

Just realised that if I think of Pink Sweets as Recca II then the snowballing rank and infinite lives trick make much more sense.
It's like a multi-stage score attack really

Except that:

1. The "regular" game (and the hard mode you unlock after beating the regular game) in Recca doesn't have any infinite lives bullshit, score attack is a separate mode - just like there is a separate score attack mode in Pink Sweets (it's stage 6 with time limits and checkpoints or something, I never really played it);
2. Infinite lives in Pink Sweets is actually a (nasty) bug, which was fixed... and then brought back by popular demand. EOJ goes on a rant on some old cave-stg thread to prove that it was not a bug, but his own arguments prove the contrary.

[Vamos]

So in basic terms what do i have to do to activate the inifinite lives trick?and does the char i use make much difference for it?

[Icarus]

By the way, SDLMAME 143u8 for Mac OS X is working fine here. Everything seems to run at around 100% or close to it, though it also seems that there is slowdown lacking in some places (in Mushihimesama and Ibara, at least). I haven't got the MMP or PS ROMs at the moment, so I can't give them a thorough workout until I find them.
Everything's running on a MacBook Pro 17" (late 2010 model): Core i7 2.66GHz, 4GB RAM, OS X.6.8, video output forced through the GeForce GT 330M.

So in basic terms what do i have to do to activate the inifinite lives trick?and does the char i use make much difference for it?

Get four Extends in a row without dying at any point. Character selected is irrelevant, though certain characters have an easier time of generating Extends than others.

[IseeThings]

The 2006/04/06 MASTER VER. and 2006/04/06 MASTER VER.... have the infinite lives trick for sure.
I have the 2006/04/06 MASTER VER. PCB and 2006/04/06 MASTER VER. MAME ROMs. They match in every way.

Yet I still have those inconsistencies between PCB and MAME that (I would have to imagine) don't relate to MAME's lack of slowdown.

I wouldn't rule out Pink Sweets storing session data in the EEPROM tho, which could alter a 'cold start'.

This doesn't seem likely at all, what makes you come to that conclusion?

Nothing, other than if I was programming a game for arcade which was meant to automatically balance difficulty based on previous plays etc. I'd save the data so it didn't get lost in a power outage

It's possible there are some SH4 bugs, I really don't know, the problems you describe are entirely stuff which would be handled by the game code which is why they're a bit weird to see reported, the overall system is rather simple.

Anyway the simple answer is I have no idea why it would differ, I have no idea where to start looking for a fix although places which differ in this and other games in ways other than slowdown should most definitely be documented as one of them may be more useful for figuring it out.

[Korszca]

Nothing, other than if I was programming a game for arcade which was meant to automatically balance difficulty based on previous plays etc. I'd save the data so it didn't get lost in a power outage

Gotcha
The only reason I mention it is because on the actual PCB, rank does reset on every flick of the power switch back to the same point. If MAME did something different, I'd be worried.

It's possible there are some SH4 bugs, I really don't know, the problems you describe are entirely stuff which would be handled by the game code which is why they're a bit weird to see reported, the overall system is rather simple.

Anyway the simple answer is I have no idea why it would differ, I have no idea where to start looking for a fix although places which differ in this and other games in ways other than slowdown should most definitely be documented as one of them may be more useful for figuring it out.

Yeah, I figured that the fix(es) probably wouldn't be easy but I figured people should know about them. And hopefully whoever works on the code will stumble upon it and it'll help them.

[Icarus]

Quick up date (thanks Vamos for pointing me in the right direction):

Mushi Futari 1.5 frameskips like crazy during the busier sections in stage2, notably during the icicles that are dotted throughout the stage. I'd imagine stage3 being even worse during the segments with the hives. Stage 1 seems fine, though there seems to be no slowdown at all when the mid-boss appears.
I threw on Pink Sweets (pinkswtsb) on Score Attack Mode, and it stutters throughout the stage, possibly due to the wobbly background.
Muchi Pork stutters a bit from the title screen, and then evens out halfway through stage1. I'd expect it to be a little uneven during busier parts.
Espgaluda 2 is fine until I activate Kakusei Zetsushikai. :/
Deathsmiles, fine until the screen is busy (high medal generation areas, most of Volcano, and is horrible when Death Mode is active).

For the time being, I'll be sticking with the ports. Nice to know that a portable practice option is coming along, though. Thanks for the hard work to all involved.
(Run on a late 2010 17" MBP with SDLMAME 143u8: Core i7 2.66GHz, 4GB RAM, OS X.6.8, GeForce GT 330M.)

[Shin]

I'd love for someone to port the games without sound on the good ol' Dreamcast, I don't know how much work that would actually require but that could be fun to watch running ^^

Also I wonder if it's possible to rip the Muchi Muchi Pork Matsuri rom (the version with the Pink Sweets Bosses) out of the 360 version of the game... or DeathSmiles MBL (same with DDP DFK 1.5(1)/DDP DFK BL but those are 360 version with 360 sprites, no?)

and on the contrary to throw Ibara/Kuro, Mushihimesama1, infinite live trick Pink Sweets roms in some SH-3 ports on 360(MMP+PS, MHSFutari, Deathsmiles or Galuda2) by swaping and modifying the roms and the .xex to run the right regions of the roms (that would only work on consoles that can run unsigned code though like devkits/jtag/RGH, but most 360 can be RGHs for a few $ now so...) (I wouldn't care about that if Ibara+Kuro and MHS were released on 360 though, but for now...)

IseeThings, you should know more about this than most of us, but I'd understand if you don't want to comment on it (yet?) ^^'' (anyways thanks for you work and those involved, in my point of view it's important to document all those great games )

[IseeThings]

I doubt any of the 360 ports of the SH3 games are emulators, so I doubt there will be any roms to 'rip'.

For 68k based games, with hand written code, it makes more sense to just emulate them (or you'd end up rewriting large parts of the game, which is risky). For SH3 games where the code is mostly compiled anyway, it makes more sense just to recompile it for a different target.

[cools]

The Futari port certainly contains files that look like ROMs to me Of course, could just be the data.

The others? Nah.

[mjclark]

Except that:
1. The "regular" game (and the hard mode you unlock after beating the regular game) in Recca doesn't have any infinite lives bullshit, score attack is a separate mode - just like there is a separate score attack mode in Pink Sweets (it's stage 6 with time limits and checkpoints or something, I never really played it);
2. Infinite lives in Pink Sweets is actually a (nasty) bug, which was fixed... and then brought back by popular demand. EOJ goes on a rant on some old cave-stg thread to prove that it was not a bug, but his own arguments prove the contrary.

Except that:
1. A child of six could tell you that Recca (which of course does have an infinite lives cheat) and Pink Sweets are not identical. The runaway rank system in Pink Sweets gives a new multi-stage interpretation to the old maximum-score-under-restrictive-conditions experience of Recca's (and subsequent Summer Carnival games') time-attack mode;
2. Nobody likes a smartass.

[IseeThings]

The Futari port certainly contains files that look like ROMs to me Of course, could just be the data.

The others? Nah.

Fair enough, I don't have them to analyse (I looked at DeathSmiles given that I own it, but couldn't see anything of note)

[Vamos]

Quick up date (thanks Vamos for pointing me in the right direction):

Mushi Futari 1.5 frameskips like crazy during the busier sections in stage2, notably during the icicles that are dotted throughout the stage. I'd imagine stage3 being even worse during the segments with the hives. Stage 1 seems fine, though there seems to be no slowdown at all when the mid-boss appears.
I threw on Pink Sweets (pinkswtsb) on Score Attack Mode, and it stutters throughout the stage, possibly due to the wobbly background.
330M.)[/i]

I tryed score attack also and it runs like ass, the main game however you should try bar a few loading dips its 100% for me , not sure about futari though original mode runs slowdown free here with only minor slowdowns at the stage 2 fountains. Ibara runs the best by far 100% all the time bar one dip on the trains stage 3 obviously without any slowdown so it plays like the ps2 port lol. All said and done though this has been amazing so far although imo the pgm emulation mainly ketsui was the realll deal i dont think any of the sh3 games can pry me away from it just yet.

[PinkSweets]

I'll admit, I'm a noob when it comes to MAME, but I have the u8 diff file in the correct folder and Pink Sweets still isn't showing up when I try to launch the rom.

Edit: Oh, and DeathSmiles says I don't have required ROMS or CHD files. Not sure what this means either.

[kevenz]

the .diff files are used when you compile the .exe...... if you're new, you'd better download mameui 143u8

I think it's the easiest version to configure, and if it says missing roms, it means you downloaded an old version of the rom.

[kevenz]

By the way, SDLMAME 143u8 for Mac OS X is working fine here. Everything seems to run at around 100% or close to it, though it also seems that there is slowdown lacking in some places (in Mushihimesama and Ibara, at least). I haven't got the MMP or PS ROMs at the moment, so I can't give them a thorough workout until I find them.
Everything's running on a MacBook Pro 17" (late 2010 model): Core i7 2.66GHz, 4GB RAM, OS X.6.8, video output forced through the GeForce GT 330M.

I own a Dell XPS 15 and I plan to switch to a Macbook Pro 15 in spring when the Ivy Bridge processor come out.

But you're having slowdown with a Quad-Core I7 2.66ghz ? damn...... something is wrong, is it that SDLMAME isn't optimized as mame for windows.... or mac os x require more power than windows 7....... i don't get it.

[Icarus]

But you're having slowdown with a Quad-Core I7 2.66ghz ? damn...... something is wrong, is it that SDLMAME isn't optimized as mame for windows.... or mac os x require more power than windows 7....... i don't get it.

My MBP is only equipped with a dual-core i7, the quad-core i7 models started appearing early this year in the spring refresh.
It might just be an SDLMAME thing, since everything else I've thrown at my Mac runs nicely. I'd be interested to know if the Windows builds of MAME makes use of the extra CPU cores, because I'm not sure if SDLMAME does. Typically, anything pre-Ibara/Mushi runs a treat, which is great as I was getting the taste for Ibara and Mushi again, but later Cave games start to choke a bit when the screen gets busy. Though it's not a problem for me as I have all the ports anyway, and MAME would be a nice way to practice on the go.

EDIT: Actually, I take that back. Looks like Ibara has issues with busy screens as well, moreso than usual Cave. So it's anything from Espgaluda and earlier at the moment.

[PinkSweets]

the .diff files are used when you compile the .exe...... if you're new, you'd better download mameui 143u8

I think it's the easiest version to configure, and if it says missing roms, it means you downloaded an old version of the rom.

Thanks! I appreciate the response.

Everything is running now with sound.

I'll have to sit down one of these days and research MAME.

[ebarrett]

Get four Extends in a row without dying at any point. Character selected is irrelevant, though certain characters have an easier time of generating Extends than others.

Wasn't there something about the extend that pushes the stock counter over the maximum needing to be a fixed one? Or is that just another legend born out of almost nobody actually playing Pink Sweets?

Recca (which of course does have an infinite lives cheat)

Cheat != glitch.

[Icarus]

Wasn't there something about the extend that pushes the stock counter over the maximum needing to be a fixed one? Or is that just another legend born out of almost nobody actually playing Pink Sweets?

That's correct. If you're playing the the game on full defaults, then you're guaranteed to hit the infinite lives if you fulfill the conditions, as there are no score-based Extends on the game's default settings.
If you're doing an "infinite lives test" of the board/romset by setting score-based Extends to every 1mil, however, the Extend that puts you over the limit must be one of the fixed extends in stage3 or 5.

[kevenz]

Too bad there's no Recca for mame.......... I guess I could play it on mess? I never tried that emulator.

[KNekoSpy]

Is there a trick to running Deathsmiles? I got Mushi/Futari to run by adding a at the end, but this thing won't run Deathsmiles at all.

[JJXB]

Is there a trick to running Deathsmiles? I got Mushi/Futari to run by adding a at the end, but this thing won't run Deathsmiles at all.

i ran it by way of:
mame deathsml -nosound
the -nosound is optional though.

[spl]

Too bad there's no Recca for mame.......... I guess I could play it on mess? I never tried that emulator.

Why would there be Recca for MAME? It's not an arcade game - it's a Famicom/NES game. Just play it on one of the many NES emulators around.

[AntiFritz]

Is there a trick to running Deathsmiles? I got Mushi/Futari to run by adding a at the end, but this thing won't run Deathsmiles at all.

Fix the roms with clrmamepro.

[JJXB]

Is there a trick to running Deathsmiles? I got Mushi/Futari to run by adding a at the end, but this thing won't run Deathsmiles at all.

Fix the roms with clrmamepro.

where should i get the dat files for clrmamepro to update the roms to 0143u8?

[captpain]

anyone talking about stutter or problems with stuttering or slowdown present where it shouldn't be need to be sure that it's not just their computer chugging. always press F11 and make sure emulation speed is staying at 100% in the problem spots before you start posting about anything as a rule.

The game running slower than 100% isn't going to rectify the problem of the game running faster than usual.

i was talking to the other people. you're a non-dummy, i know that.