Describe your boner for the Breaking Bad return...

[heisenbergman]

BB is certainly not realistic in terms of plot. I mean, hello... Chem genius turns HS prof turns meth kingpin is not exactly my idea of a realistic premise to begin with. But the characters, their emotions, the motivations for what they do, their desires and their conflicts... all of this feels like it comes from a place that is very genuine and true. In that sense, BB is very realistic.

Regarding the show having filler or not, I can't be sure that it's all 100% lean meat, but it doesn't have to be. It's primarily a character-driven show; and if ever there was any filler in there hidden in the guise of character development, I sure as hell neither noticed or minded it. Week in and week out, I felt like the plot moved a bit - or better yet - I got to know the characters more. Occasionally, there would be huge bursts of action or drama, but for the most part of the first four seasons, BB was a beautiful slow burn.

[heisenbergman]

Why does The X-Files keep on coming up From what I remember viewing it during the 90's it felt to that era as Fringe/Lost is to this era of TV. Nothing spectacular. Good viewing iirc.

[Skykid]

^ That's a much more reasonable way of discussing criticisms, thanks for being practical about it.

As I said (numerous times) I really enjoyed the show, but it always bothers me when people put something on a pedestal that isn't quite worthy of the superhype. I mean, it was well directed, but so is Desperate Housewives, Six Feet Under and The Sopranos - it's just the subject matter that defines the audience.

Twenty-five percent of the show was dynamite, fifty-percent pretty good TV, and the remainder sort of generic meandering tosh. I'd say they're pretty good numbers.

Why does The X-Files keep on coming up From what I remember viewing it during the 90's it felt to that era as Fringe/Lost is to this era of TV. Nothing spectacular. Good viewing iirc.

it's a good reference point for consistently incredible writing in a TV series, and one of the most successful ever made.

Vince Gilligan was also a chief writer and directed some of its best episodes, so there's that too.

[PurpBullets]

I agree with skykid to a certain extent. Actually, when the last half of the last season aired, I was reluctant to even watch.
& I watched every episode as soon as it aired since day one.

What I agree with is filler, and flaws. Not realism. Believe it or not, the concept of the individual becoming something he originally wasnt is not farfetched or hard to believe. There are plenty of people in the US who get into some dirty stuff.
In the US, you could realistically know a drug kingpin and not even know it. That is not hard to believe.

Yeah, filler. :/

It was a great show, some seasons better than others. Of course, I imagine everyone will have their own take/perspective based on what they have experienced.

I personally loved the filler towards the beginning though, because you got to see Walt learn/grow/evolve(technically devolve)

It is over hyped now isnt it? I remember NOBODY talking about during the first handful of seasons.

[Skykid]

^ Holy shit, someone who agrees with me. You're a rare breed.

What I agree with is filler, and flaws. Not realism. Believe it or not, the concept of the individual becoming something he originally wasnt is not farfetched or hard to believe. There are plenty of people in the US who get into some dirty stuff.

You know, I think it's got a killer premise. I couldn't stop watching the first season, did the entire thing in a day. It doesn't need to be realistic to be entertaining, and I loved the idea of the meek science teacher turning to drug dealing to support his family. Finally something really gritty to get stuck into.

Actually, I thought season one illustrated a superb commentary regarding the state of the western world in economic terms. You have this brilliant brain, educated beyond belief, but he has to work in a car wash to make ends meet, and even then he struggles. And then he's dying of cancer, and the system wants to charge him hundreds of thousands of dollars just to give him a slim fighting chance at life. It's immoral, and so he's also forced into the immoral to try and save himself.

It was a really superb examination of unemployment and government failings - and in the very last episode when he walks into the home of those two rich pricks and gently rubs the walls as if to say "I could have had this too" brought that aspect full circle. I thought it was a brilliant way of rounding off an element of the character.

Unfortunately it was no way near as resonant or relevant from season two onward.

[cools]

I know you guys are easily pleased but I didn't go in for the trite soap operatics.

You're obviously real pros on the subject.

I've never said I'm an expert on TV nor film writing, and I'll be outspoken about my dislike or praise of the products of this - but could you quit with belittling everyone and focus on the product rather than claiming superiority?

I stay out of the movie thread here because of this. Disliking anything for whatever reason is fine, but attacking people for their opinions is not on.

I know you're better than to hang around on Icy's level, c'mon.

As I said (numerous times) I really enjoyed the show, but it always bothers me when people put something on a pedestal that isn't quite worthy of the superhype.

Your reasons for disliking it are the very reasons I liked it, and I generally avoid most TV precisely because of all the fluff in it, preferring the focussed 1.5-2 hours of a movie to episodic meandering.

[Skykid]

I've never said I'm an expert on TV nor film writing, and I'll be outspoken about my dislike or praise of the products of this - but could you quit with belittling everyone and focus on the product rather than claiming superiority?

But you've not put the quotes you picked in context. You're all telling me there's no filler when the show's creator went on public record to defend the filler that was in there. That's not me claiming superiority, that's you guys stating something isn't there that obviously is.

Your reasons for disliking it are the very reasons I liked it

What makes you think I disliked it?

I'm of the opinion the general population is easily pleased, I've always been vocal about that. I absolutely completely believe it. If they weren't, we wouldn't have to suffer so much endless drivel in the commercial field.

That's got nothing to do with BB though, it's at the complete opposite end of generic twaddle - it just happens to have a little in there now and again.

Don't take my criticism of the show personally cools, I prefer to cut the shit and just say it.

[PurpBullets]

^ Holy shit, someone who agrees with me. You're a rare breed.

You know, I think it's got a killer premise. I couldn't stop watching the first season, did the entire thing in a day. It doesn't need to be realistic to be entertaining, and I loved the idea of the meek science teacher turning to drug dealing to support his family. Finally something really gritty to get stuck into.

Actually, I thought season one illustrated a superb commentary regarding the state of the western world in economic terms. You have this brilliant brain, educated beyond belief, but he has to work in a car wash to make ends meet, and even then he struggles. And then he's dying of cancer, and the system wants to charge him hundreds of thousands of dollars just to give him a slim fighting chance at life. It's immoral, and so he's also forced into the immoral to try and save himself.

It was a really superb examination of unemployment and government failings - and in the very last episode when he walks into the home of those two rich pricks and gently rubs the walls as if to say "I could have had this too" brought that aspect full circle. I thought it was a brilliant way of rounding off an element of the character.

Unfortunately it was no way near as resonant or relevant from season two onward.

I agree with everything you said here. It was really brilliant symbology.
& thinking about it... I suppose it makes sense, they would divert attention to other characters. If it was solely about meth dealers, only certain people would relate/watch, but because they threw in innocent by standers, it let females or an otherwise untapped audience see themselves in a character. Leading to them watching regularly.

It did get a bit much though towards the end...
I am in the same boat, I could do without the family drama.

Although It was quite plausible for me to imagine a seemingly helpless school teacher running out of patience for his own life, and turning to unimaginable things. There was still alot of laughably comical stuff they tried to sell as realistic.
I will say though, that the majority of drug/chemical related tricks are accurate and believable.

[Skykid]

Yeah, that was one aspect I'd definitely say was real.

I would have liked Gilligan to write and direct more episodes actually, since the final was actually really nicely composed. It was a really great way of wrapping up Walt's character. He never became the Heisenberg he dreamed of, very much as Mike laid it out right before he was shot, but in that last episode he was finally back to being this genuine person again: benevolent but capable of dangerous things at the same time. The way he threatened his former colleagues, but it was hollow, and when he spoke to Skyler and said the reason he did it all "was for me. I enjoyed it, it made me feel alive" was as though he had come to understand more about his own nature. I also like the fact he built the machinegun pivot thing because it hearkened back to his scientific side - an aspect I felt was really underused in terms of scriptwriting potential.

Also, characters like Gus arguably have a superb element of realism that's rarely portrayed properly in drug-related drama, and I thought his hiding in plain sight behaviour was much better thought out than the average drug-lord fare - the antithesis being Steven "I fucked Scarface's sister" Bauer's cliche Mexican baron: although he was the perfect Yin to Gus' Yang. Still found it slightly farfetched that Gus would poison himself and then wait an hour to go to the bathroom, but there was a very nice bit of writing ingenuity when he saved Jessie from drinking it too.

I feel as though I should list out all the things I did like about the show just so folks don't think I'm treading on their dreams here. There are plenty of people out there who have more of a bone of contention than I do with the production, some outright claiming "It's the most overrated show of all-time", which is not something I agree with. If I were having a debate with some of those folks, I no-doubt would be defending the other way, but conceding of course that they do have some fair points too:

"It’s the depictions of these other characters that throw Walt into such sharp relief and make him even more irritating, I think. That is to say, with the exception of Jesse and Hank (at times), we don’t see these characters fully developed in the way that the supporting cast of, say, The Sopranos were. We never know what motivates Gus, or Mike, or sweet, sociopathic Todd. We never find out why Marie has a shoplifting problem. We have no idea what goes on in the head of Walt Jr. Even Skyler, who was, unlike Carmela Soprano, allowed to have an affair, seems to exist only as a foil to Walt. Much like Hank, she’s there as a plot device more than a person. (And perhaps this lack of complexity in her character has something to do with the legion of fans who virulently hate her in a way they never did Carmela.)"

[Hagane]

So, you wanted a show with one-dimensional characters, very little insight on their personalities and lives, and more shooting, action and crimes. Glad it didn't end up that way!

[Skykid]

So, you wanted a show with one-dimensional characters, very little insight on their personalities and lives, and more shooting, action and crimes. Glad it didn't end up that way!

Amazing you read everything I wrote and that's what you came up with.

[PurpBullets]

ed real hard when she said shutup.
+breakfast...

[jasoncslaughter]

It's kind of like Skykid's posts: some people call it filler, others call it character development.

[Skykid]

It's kind of like Skykid's posts: some people call it filler, others call it character development.

Lol, I like that!

[GaijinPunch]

The only "filler" I thought was wonky was Marie's thieving spree. I've rewatched a fair amount of X-Files. Saying it is more consistent than BB (or any number of other great shows) is just laughable. It's awesome, and I loved it, but it doesn't stand up through time as well for a few reasons. They laid on the drama REALLY thick really early. The first few episodes Mulder was moaning about govt. conspiracies for no other reason than it was what his character was supposed to do. The same tune he sang until his character's disappearance. The monster of the week episodes range from lame to excellent (yes, Drive is one of the better ones). And of course, the show itself redefined jumping the shark.

You can't ignore any of those when rating it overall against anything. It was probably the best sci-fi show on TV, or at least the one I enjoyed the most (sorry Trek fans, I'm not a Trekkie). But it's problems are glaring, and many.

[heisenbergman]

The only "filler" I thought was wonky was Marie's thieving spree.

Maybe also the thing with Hank and his rocks? But these were very minor inclusions to the show. Other than that, I also can't really consider anything else as filler in Breaking Bad.

[PurpBullets]

The filler is implemented in such a smooth brilliant way most could not even decipher that it was filler.
It is there though... All over the place now that I think about it...
It is what it is though. The only complaint I have was with the relentless family drama soap opera type of predictable garbage. If you want to see a Breaking Bad conversation?
Go to the Breaking Bad thread on 12ozprophets forum.
Husk notices everything.

[heisenbergman]

The filler is implemented in such a smooth brilliant way most could not even decipher that it was filler.

Then probably they were not filler. Samples?

The only complaint I have was with the relentless family drama soap opera type of predictable garbage.

In what way was the family drama of predictable soap opera type garbage? Like I said earlier, while the premise of BB might be far from the most realistic thing in the world, the emotions and conflicts that the characters go through seem to come from a realistic and genuine place. If that's what you characterize as predictable soap opera type garbage, then I guess I'm perfectly fine with that, although I'm curious to hear what you think is family drama that is not predictable soap opera type garbage...

[PurpBullets]

If you think that because it was crafted in a way that most can not discern the difference between filler? That is great.

The kid and breakfast... Walt doing donuts/torching the car... Jesse driving a go-cart in circles to eventually start screaming... Everything about Jesse mourning...

Them shooting the kid, and then a scene of them burying the body on the next episode... With ambient dark music to draw the scene out...

The fucking conversations Hank and Marie would have alone... I could look at it and tell myself it set a tone... but yeah.
The entire madrigal episode is technically filler. Which started with Mike saying No, and then he changes his mind.

That is all I can recall from memory.

I personally did not care about what his family was emotionally dealing with. A few episodes would be fine, but they repetitively tried to drive all that shit home, just to gain some extra viewers.
If your real life family drama is reminiscent to a soap opera, you should go meet some real people.

but my opinion should not offend you or your show.
Your show does not need me to back it...

[Skykid]

The only "filler" I thought was wonky was Marie's thieving spree. I've rewatched a fair amount of X-Files. Saying it is more consistent than X-Files (or any number of other great shows) is just laughable. It's awesome, and I loved it, but it doesn't stand up through time as well for a few reasons. They laid on the drama REALLY thick really early. The first few episodes Mulder was moaning about govt. conspiracies for no other reason than it was what his character was supposed to do. The same tune he sang until his character's disappearance. The monster of the week episodes range from lame to excellent (yes, Drive is one of the better ones). And of course, the show itself redefined jumping the shark.
You can't ignore any of those when rating it overall against anything. It's probably the best sci-fi show on TV, or at least the one I enjoyed the most (sorry Trek fans, I'm not a Trekkie). But it's problems are glaring, and many.

Sorry man, I'm not sure I get what you're saying. XF is one of the most comfortable shows in its skin I've ever watched, and it was nothing but consistent seasons 1 thru 7. Its most significant attribute is its writing, still outclasses most of anything I've seen since. The monster of the week is more meme than fact, the majority were thrillers - I'm not even sure where that came from.

One thing I know for damn sure is the age of a show doesn't diminish its quality. It would be absurd to say the Twilight Zone doesn't hold up because of its age: Rod Serling absolutely buries Breaking Bad, shovel included, and so does the X-Files.

I know how much you like BB, and I enjoyed it too, but I gotta call a spade a spade. For all its entertainment value I know I'd never watch it twice because there's so much dead space in it it's like staring at a blank wall - nothing happens.

I think the moment it was really addressed properly was in season two. We were vegging out just marathoning eps and I remember thinking it was really dragging today, and then all of a sudden my brother jarred me out of my near catatonia by shouting "This fucking scene ended five minutes ago, why the fuck are they still talking!" I forgave him for almost giving me a heart heart attack because it was so funny cos true. If you watch some of the slow exchanges (and there are lot to choose from) they often make their point, keep going, keep going, keep going, until you're completely convinced whatever "character development" being established occurred in the first minute and the rest is, well, filler. That's the downside to Breaking Bad in a nutshell.

Thankfully it had load of really great elements to counter-balance and make those parts worth working through, or else there's no way I would have finished it. All credit, when it was good it was really fun, and occasionally there were some great sparks that made it worth the effort. One of the best TV shows ever? Not so sure where it would come on a personal list, probably reasonably high, but I don't think 'genius' is anywhere near an appropriate word.

[heisenbergman]

Fair enough. It becomes immediately apparent that the crux of this discussion is basically rooted in GP's post that Skykid quoted on the bottom of the previous page. From Vince Gilligan himself, he seems to imply that a lot of the mundane is actually really necessary. Yet having implied that, that also said that part of the show is indeed mundanity. For people like Skykid and PurpBullets, it's filler. For others, me included, it contributes significantly to the overall impact of the show. It's just the same thing seen in different ways. Different folks, different strokes.

idk, that seems like that's basically it.

[GaijinPunch]

I know how much you like BB, and I enjoyed it too, but I gotta call a spade a spade. For all its entertainment value I know I'd never watch it twice because there's so much dead space in it it's like staring at a blank wall - nothing happens.

I always call a spade a spade. Then and now, there's a handful of X-Files episodes (a quarter?) that were just meh. Maybe nature of the beast for something that had more episodes per season, but them's the facts. Even if it was consistent from Season 1-7, seasons 8 and 9 were pretty fucking awful. You can't say Gilligan was cashing in on ratings for filler on BB, but totally ignore the last two seasons of X-Files. The heart and soul of the show said he was fucking leaving and they still tried to ride the cash cow. Not to mention 90% of episodes ended the exact same way. I'm like halfway through season 3 watching one here and there on Hulu, and w/ 5 minutes to go, I always find myself saying, "here it comes, the Deus Ex Machina sweeping it under the proverbial government rug". Now that's creative!

idk, that seems like that's basically it.

Indeed.

[Hagane]

It's pretty funny to call Breaking Bad inconsistent and then mention fucking X-Files as an example of the opposite...

[Skykid]

It's pretty funny to call Breaking Bad inconsistent and then mention fucking X-Files as an example of the opposite...

Why?

[heisenbergman]

It's pretty funny to call Breaking Bad inconsistent and then mention fucking X-Files as an example of the opposite...

Yeah this is weird. Granted, I started watching X-Files when I was maybe 13 and I am now 30... but I can't remember anything about it that stuck as an amazing viewing experience. I remember it the way that I see Fringe from this decade.

[Skykid]

It's pretty funny to call Breaking Bad inconsistent and then mention fucking X-Files as an example of the opposite...

Yeah this is weird. Granted, I started watching X-Files when I was maybe 13 and I am now 30... but I can't remember anything about it that stuck as an amazing viewing experience. I remember it the way that I see Fringe from this decade.

Well it's better by a country mile than Breaking Bad, so you can always go back to season one episode one and start all over. Treat yourself. You get episode after episode where things actually happen from start to finish, it's amazing!

[charlie chong]

skykid be smokin dat meth..
towards the end x files was actually unwatchable.
your superfluous verbosity will never change that

[NTSC-J]

I get the impression Skykid watched Breaking Bad for the purpose of arguing about it later.

[Edmond Dantes]

skykid be smokin dat meth..
towards the end x files was actually unwatchable.
your superfluous verbosity will never change that

Whaddya mean, "Towards the end?" X-Files was pretty unwatchable from the start.

[emphatic]

I get the impression Skykid watched Breaking Bad for the purpose of arguing about it later.

If by arguing about it you mean belittle other's opionion while considering his' own thoughts as facts, then I agree.