mices - Gun.Smoke tribute, Broken Pearl, Twin Tiger Shark

[mice]

Do you have to start the entire buildup from 1-maxpower when you switch powerups?

No, you keep the level you're at.

If not, borrowing from Cave (you know, those ex toaplan dudes) might be smart. Have a powerup/bomb vessel before a boss fight letting you actually choose.

That's how it is, more or less. Each checkpoint don't have much long til the power up vessel and the bosses have both a power up plane and sometime even the helper ones. Rectifies both problems (recoverable and selecting the right weapon).

If you made it so the damage output of the blue weapon was exactly the same as red - with the same rate of fire but with a wider spread, we could do the Batsugun thing of getting super close to the boss so all our shots connect.

That's (really close to) how it is as well, just get on top of or close to the targets and you take'em out pretty quickly even with the blue weapon.

That'd also add an interesting skill element of using the blue weapon for good scoring during stages but having to get more aggressive during the boss fight to counterbalance this.

Hate to say it, but this is exactly how it is. You cruise through the stages and when a boss comes up you, it either takes forever to kill him or you get up close and finish him off quicker.

[emphatic]

Are you making the enemies fire at you quicker, so you can't just zoom around and kill everything too quick so there are no bullets ever (except for the larger enemies that are fine)? This is something you want even in Easy for the true Toaplan feel.

[n0rtygames]

Hate to say it, but this is exactly how it is. You cruise through the stages and when a boss comes up you, it either takes forever to kill him or you get up close and finish him off quicker.

Then you my friend - need to stop listening to shmups forum. Because if that's how it was planned then you should keep it that way.

The fact that the weapons now cycle twice making it even easier to get the OP green weapon is bad. You should roll that change back and keep what you have. Don't hate to say it, stand by your decision. I thought that this might be the case with the blue weapon - so I was mostly asking with the hope that you'd actually give this answer.

Remember, Chronoblast was "impossible" and had scoring mechanics that "did not reward good play" - yet Emuser is rocking a 2-all with over a 2 billion score against some of the harshest and most demented shit anyone should ever NOT put in a STG.

Have pride in your decisions and only fix what needs fixing that fits with your original design. User interface, that's separate. Looping forever? You didn't want that, so fix it. But you designed the weapon system this way for a reason. Those saying that the green laser is too powerful need to suffer a death in the loops on hard and then try to get back up to max power... There's a reason it's the last on the rotation!

Perhaps when Insane difficulty hits, we'll have a better understanding of why that decision was made.

<3

[mice]

Perhaps when Insane difficulty hits...

Are you making the enemies fire at you quicker

I made the bullets fire earlier and a bit more frequent as well, making easy quite a bit harder. So now when I added Insane, it's just...insane.
I'm so going to make the water red now...because it will be with all of the player blood in it.

The fact that the weapons now cycle twice making it even easier to get the OP green weapon is bad.

The reason I did it shorter was that it "was in the way of my tries to clear the game naked". Which I never did...so it's just a rollback of that.

[emphatic]

Really looking forward to the patch!

[n0rtygames]

The reason I did it shorter was that it "was in the way of my tries to clear the game naked". Which I never did...so it's just a rollback of that.

Well, so long as you're sure and it's not peer pressure

I know the release was a bit on the easy side but I think overall it's a good game. Insane difficulty should spice things up a bit for sure

[trap15]

Psst, field the new difficulty level with me, I think I can give good feedback on it *points to Flying Shark 2-ALL*

[emphatic]

Psst, field the new difficulty level with me, I think I can give good feedback on it *points to Flying Shark 2-ALL*

Hey, I got my Flying Shark 2-ALL in 1988.

[n0rtygames]

Hey, I got my Flying Shark 2-ALL in 1988.

Woah there! Showing your age now!

[mice]

Here's v1.67 for you to try:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/457 ... 0306-2.zip

Still no hiscore separation. Will be in the next version.

So, all you 2-ALLers of FS, feel free to try it. But, honestly, it's not the same thing...

[trap15]

Very nice

Things I've noticed:

• Full power blue is annoying. The rest of its power progression is nice, but I hate the full power version.
• Blue is probably the best weapon. Even on bosses, it makes short work of them since it has such a wide range and only hitting about half the shots does plenty of damage.
• Red should probably have some spreading to it.
• I love the way tanks behave! They're really good!
• Most enemies take too long to take their first shot, so you can usually kill them before they're a threat.
• You should have some enemies entering mid-screen or from below.
• The sea stage needs more small boats when the big boats are on screen, I think.
• Insane still isn't that hard. I can get to 1-5 with my bad keyboard, and I've not really played more than a handful of credits of this or the original version.

Just stuff to think about. I'm really liking this, you've done a great job

[emphatic]

• You should have some enemies entering mid-screen or from below.
• The sea stage needs more small boats when the big boats are on screen, I think.

Boats from behind too, please. Some speedy fuckers than can chase down a plane!

Sorry, I haven't been able to try the new version, too busy right now.

Oh thought about a cool idea that I just have to write down and post here:

The appearance of formation enemy planes (like in Flying Shark) leaving a bonus item, but this is circling the screen until either you pick them up or another formation shows up. Here's the kicker though, instead of just disappearing when this happens, they will give the player "dodging 2 items onscreen" special bonus. If you put 4 different colours on them with different bonus values for just picking them up, they will trigger different bonus stuff or even attacks!

Red planes = 10.000 bonus (2 red items on screen = 30.000 bonus!)
Blue planes = 5.000 bonus (2 blue items on screen = 7.500 bonus)
Green planes = 1000 bonus (2 green items on screen = 2.500 bonus)

1 red + 1 blue item on screen = the items merge and form a 2UP item
1 red + 1 green item on screen = the items circle around the screen in a "ramen pattern" (Toaplan reference) and lightning bolts are fired back and forth between them (that can kill they player + enemies die instantly when hit) cancelled if the player shoots the options too many times (like the Toaplan mascot in OutZone's stage 1) so dodging them and let the bolts kill the enemies will give you 1000 pts extra for every enemy that get stuck in the lightning attack.
1 blue + 1 green item on screen = The items merge into a BOMB item, but do not pick it up! Instead, you now have infinite bombs that will give you 50.000 per dead enemy

I realize this isn't really patch material to add, I just wanted to write it down.

[mice]

Most enemies take too long to take their first shot, so you can usually kill them before they're a threat.

But I just made them shoot waaay earlier than before...it's true!

Blue is probably the best weapon.

I think so too. Don't tell the ones thinking it's too underpowered.
What to do with the max power of it, then?

The sea stage needs more small boats when the big boats are on screen, I think.

Yes, I think you're right. Will add that asap.

Insane still isn't that hard.

Aaargh! Yes it is!

Just stuff to think about. I'm really liking this, you've done a great job

Huge thanks!

Boats from behind too, please. Some speedy fuckers than can chase down a plane!

You should have some enemies entering mid-screen or from below.

Will see what I can do. I hate the boats, as can be seen in their design. Really wished they brought me some inspiration so I could have done cool stuff with them. But no, they had to turn out ugly and being not cooperative at all.

Oh thought about a cool idea that I just have to write down and post here:

It's s super idea, but they(pickups) really don't have to circle, they can bounce as they do now? I might try this in the next game. Sound like it could add some depth.

[trap15]

Most enemies take too long to take their first shot, so you can usually kill them before they're a threat.

But I just made them shoot waaay earlier than before...it's true!

It's actually fine for most enemies, I think. Maybe a little faster for the small planes/tanks. The larger enemies definitely take too long though.

What to do with the max power of it, then?

Maybe just add another intermediary level and make the one under max the new max

Insane still isn't that hard.

Aaargh! Yes it is!

I think at this point it's more an issue of the stage design not being aggressive enough, rather than enemy behavior. You need more "entering from the side" enemies and such, I find those tend to add quite a significant amount of difficulty when placed strategically. The key is to be a dick with your enemy layout

[Kaiser]

I don't think you should listen trap on the difficulty of Insane. Never design the game above your own skill level, or at least NOT to the point that drives you mad whenever you play it.

Nice to see it's still being tuned.

[BPzeBanshee]

I ran this today and got planes coming out of nowhere kamikaze me at the bottom of the screen *from either below or to the side of me*. And both times I was nowhere near center view so there was no way the view obscured it.

Beyond that, nice job! First score submission for Insane mode apparently.

[mice]

New version with separated hiscore lists (not tested fully, though):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/457 ... 0307-1.zip

And some nice blue water on stage 3 but still red on stage 2.

got planes coming out of nowhere kamikaze me at the bottom of the screen

Happens sometime if you let the smaller kamikaze planes miss you at such an angle that they will return to screen before being removed.
If you know what I mean.

First score submission for Insane mode apparently.

\o/ Wish I had a price, or something.

Never design the game above your own skill level

I did that already on easy...

I think at this point it's more an issue of the stage design not being aggressive enough,

Yeah, maybe need to add some more enemies coming from evil angles and such to beef it up.

[mice]

Final version (?) :
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/457 ... 0309-2.zip

Inspiration has dwindled.
I backed a bit on the tank firing rates, didn't feel easy on easy at all.

What has been done: (apart from fixing a few bugs)

Code: Select all

millionth score outside of screen => moved score to the right 
Fix Loop bug => You get to select if you want to continue or get a "Clear" registered 
longer pickup floating => Will bounce for 3 times the original time
Difficulty: Insane => Starts off as "Hard loop 2"
enemy fire earlier => All smaller ones only
Laser too powerful => Laser is only 80% of the original power
New boss-fire sound effect => Yes, meatier. Removed the power-dropper-plane bullet sound
easy/hard/insane scoreboards => split it up as "every one else does". Will do filtering of the online version when updates are released

[emphatic]

Cool!

[mice]

Well, hiscore save wasn't working...at all...
So, new version:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/457 ... 0309-7.zip

[spadgy]

No pressure on time, of course, but will this be patched for the 360 version?

[mice]

Yes, as soon as I feel that this version hasn't detroyed anything important, it will be uploaded to peer review.

[spadgy]

Wicked! Amazing work on this Mice. It must be really hard to balance. You've got the opportunity of all the feedback coming in from shmup players, but of course you've also got to stick to your vision for the game and what you want it to be, what's achievable, and balance all the conflicting feedback. Rather you than me!

[mice]

Rather you than me!

Well, this version is mainly to get the harder difficulty in and fixing the hiscore issues that came with it.
So the balance will still be quite off. Have tried to do some with it, but I'll hear what people have to say after the update and take/find new directions from there. I think.

[n0rtygames]

it will be uploaded to peer review.

Say when

[emphatic]

Yes, as soon as I feel that this version hasn't detroyed anything important, it will be uploaded to peer review.

Are you in touch with your feelings?

[mice]

Are you in touch with your feelings?

No, not really. Do you want your real name in the credits, by the way? Forgot to ask before...really sorry about that.

To be honest, I've been working on a "expo" version for retrostpelsmässan.
Although I might not get a table there, I'm only on reservlistan. You going?

[emphatic]

Are you in touch with your feelings?

No, not really. Do you want your real name in the credits, by the way? Forgot to ask before...really sorry about that.

To be honest, I've been working on a "expo" version for retrostpelsmässan.
Although I might not get a table there, I'm only on reservlistan. You going?

What, you think emphatic's not my real name?

I wish I could go to RSM, but I stupidly booked a DJ gig the same night, so I need to stay put at the home office.

[mice]

What, you think emphatic's not my real name?

Exactly like my first pinball tournament:
- Your name?
- Mikael
- No, I mean your real name...

I wish I could go to RSM, but I stupidly booked a DJ gig the same night, so I need to stay put at the home office.

Pity. This is going to be my first time going, looks so much fun from the videos (including yours) from past years.

[emphatic]

This is going to be my first time going, looks so much fun from the videos (including yours) from past years.

I hope you're fine with standing in line unless you can secure a table inside and enter as a seller. Last year, I had to skip the whole thing because the queues were about 4+ hours to get in. They've promised a bigger venue this year though, let's hope they also can let people inside quicker too. I ended up going to a buddy's house instead, playing shmups on his candy cabs, so not a big deal for me.