Despatche wrote:
a very large part of this genre is memorization, unless you just wanna play bosconian or something all day. even geometry wars has more memorization than bosconian, iirc.
Memorization is an advantage for any game with dedicated design, and a necessity for any kind of competitive play (aka not pure survival). That being said, to say you don't like a game because it doesn't have enough of a random/reflex factor or telegraphs deaths poorly is a legitimate complaint for some people.
I personally like R-Type a lot though.
RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................
Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
I've tried to get into Ikaruga so many times. Such great presentation, music, atmosphere, etc. Two credits later I'm always reminded why I don't play it.
Despatche wrote:a very large part of this genre is memorization, unless you just wanna play bosconian or something all day. even geometry wars has more memorization than bosconian, iirc.
Oh yes I love me some bosconian. What a classic. I haven't been able to find a game as gratifying as bosconian.
As to the good shmups I don't enjoy... that is a hard one. I enjoy all good shmups. However one thing really grinds my gears with certain shmups. That is rank management... I remember when I first tried out APB and Garegga and thought it was a unique and excellent games. In Garegga I sometimes couldn't make out the bullets, but with time your eyes adjust. But then I found out that you have to suicide in certain places if you want the rank to be playable. And I just switched off from the game.
Suiciding should never be a requirement in a game. I knowif I put enough time into rank management games I would really love them. Batrider and Garegga look like excellent and amazing shmups. But that rank management really annoys me. I might try to play those games again and give them another chance.
mastermx wrote:
Suiciding should never be a requirement in a game.
This is the misconception that will never die. It's not a requirement in either game, especially not Batrider. Suiciding, and rank managemen in general, isn't useful or necessary until you reach a certain level of skill in them.
mastermx wrote:
Suiciding should never be a requirement in a game.
This is the misconception that will never die. It's not a requirement in either game, especially not Batrider. Suiciding, and rank managemen in general, isn't useful or necessary until you reach a certain level of skill in them.
So is it possible to 1cc the game without ever dying once?
trap15 wrote:As usual, people love to overstate the effects of a mechanic they don't understand in a game they've never really played.
Thus the thread title "Good shmups you don't enjoy." is fitting for such overstatements.
mastermx wrote:
Suiciding should never be a requirement in a game.
This is the misconception that will never die. It's not a requirement in either game, especially not Batrider. Suiciding, and rank managemen in general, isn't useful or necessary until you reach a certain level of skill in them.
So is it possible to 1cc the game without ever dying once?
Yes. There are no miss runs of both games up on youtube.
A normal course clear in Batrider requires absolutely no rank management and until you can comfortably clear the first 5 stages consistently it's not even worth concerning youself with.
You don't specifically need to suicide; dying just makes the game easier. And sometimes the game gets hard enough to the point where you accidentally die, then the game gets easier. Self-regulating difficulty's the word
With that crossed off the list. I now literally have no "good shmup i dont enjoy". I enjoy them all (even though i suck at them all). Shmups are all about the love.
trap15 wrote:You don't specifically need to suicide; dying just makes the game easier. And sometimes the game gets hard enough to the point where you accidentally die, then the game gets easier. Self-regulating difficulty's the word
This. I think watching high level replays or reading about the kind of stuff required to eke out the most points is counter productive for beginners in this instance. Just play the game like you normally would and if you get the fever and want to push your play to the next level, that's when you should start considering stuff like suicides and rank management. Walk before you run and all that. Batrider is such a good game for this too because you can spend a lot of time on the Normal course just playing it as a straight shooter and you can take on additional challenges as you improve.
blufang wrote:The R-Type series. I know they are renowned, and the enemy/art design is fabulous and unique. It is all memorization and little of reaction and freeflow. T
Part of what makes the R-Type games special for me is the stage layouts. IMO, the R-Type series has the best level design out there. There is quite a bit of memorization, but unlike some other games, following a route in R-Type is pretty easy. There are lots of little cues, warnings, and other things that make memorization much easier in these games compared to most. But yeah, you won't be getting to the end of the game on reaction alone.
Agree.
For example R-Type Delta has awesome stages designs.
Other games has very good stage designs also. Those stages are important in the gameplay.
On the topic of YGW-Raizing:
Yeah, suicides are mostly just there to enable higher scoring (more bombs) and to decrease the rank you get from bombing, picking up medals and milking (i.e. scoring). It all balances out.
If you don't score the suicides won't be necessary if you know the basic rules and stay away from idiotic stuff like increasing autofire rate at the start of the game in Garegga.
For me though, the main draw of the game is all of the suiciding and bombing. Having to get yourself through the hard parts flawlessly while using all of your resources on the easy parts to get more points.
With Golden Bat for an example you have to plan out your resources the entire stage in advance before approaching both incarnations of Mad Ball. You'll need at least two suicides in order to get as many points from it as possible. Which on stage 5 means going into the stage with an extra extend and no missing up until MB2.
The adrenaline that you get when you're on Glow Squid, new PB approaching, a couple 100k from the next extend and with no resources left is so damn intense.
Batrider Normal is super easy and should be clearable with just a couple hours of practice.
moozooh wrote:I think that approach won't get you far in Garegga.
The Twin Bee games. I'm not sure if they're considered good shmups, but what I've played has certainly been beautifully crafted.
It's the bells; I just can't handle the bells, man. It's the most maddening game mechanic ever. They even somewhat tainted my enjoyment of Sexy Parodius. I tried out Brave Blade recently, and it has a similar mechanic for scoring. Couldn't hang.
