Soldering / desoldering / maintenance tools recommendations

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, I noticed that the infamous aerogel capacitor on the motherboard of the Xbox I've been working on has leaked a little in the past. This brought home to me that I have so many objet d'art that need service, and I really am not willing to lose a bunch of money and confidence in repeatedly buying services from people and entrusting irreplaceable things to the mail service. Super Lube won't fix any of this, so I think it's time to invest in some tools. (I'll put off getting an oscilloscope for now.)

As far as I can tell, the bare minimum items I would need are: An ESR meter and a soldering iron. I would like to get a desoldering gun too.

Desoldering gun seems to be a no-brainer, unfortunately the Hakko 808-KIT/P is expensive (roughly $185 USD).
A good soldering station is probably the best I could afford at this time, so there's a choice between the Hakko FX888D-23BY ($120) and the considerably more expensive FX-951 (nearly $300).

Finally, I found this kind of ESR meter. It is the MESR-100 V2 (there is an earlier MESR-100 which has a much cheaper appearance). I would like something functional, but also to maintain flexibility and performance.

So, please share your experiences with these tools (or equivalents)! Edit: I'd also be interested to hear about affordable rework stations and SMT components.

[Gekiohsan]

I am currently using a hakko fx-888d and an 808 for all my soldering/desoldering needs. The only advantage i see with the fx-951 is a higher max temp threshold and the availability of tunnel and spatula tips for smd rework. If you dont see yourself doing industry quality smd replacements in high volume, i would go with the 888d. Its initial startup time is about 30 seconds and it never seems like it cools down once heat has been transfered to the pads. The tips are reinforced too so i never have a problem with keeping the iron tinned.

I just use a typical clamp multimeter that you can get from menards for checking voltage and continuity.

Hope this helps.

[Crafty+Mech]

If you plan on getting into repair work, I recommend picking up the Hakko 808 as the second item you buy after a soldering station.

Absolutely worth their weight in gold, the 808 takes a lot of the pain out of desoldering and will save you from botching a lot of pcbs as you learn. In the hands of a pro, other cheaper tools can be just as effective, but it takes a lot of pulled pads and lifted traces before desoldering becomes second nature. The 808 still requires good technique, and needs to be cleaned and maintained properly, but the tool is light years ahead of a cheap spring vacuum pump or bulb.

[alamone]

Second the 808, just make sure you have a nozzle that is the right size.
I was really struggling with mine until i replaced with a larger diameter nozzle, now I can
remove DIP chips with ease.

[CkRtech]

Hey Ed,

Do you have a budget in mind?

I would love to own a Hakko 808 (probably will someday), however I don't really have to desolder that much. Admittedly, I have been scratching my chin about it a bit more lately as I plan on doing more NESRGB mods.

I basically built-up my stuff over the course of time. Some people claim that the radio shack soldering irons are all you need. Although their selection has gotten better over the years, the adjustable temp stations are the way to go (although I typically lock at 650 degrees F for most of my work). I use a Weller WES-51 and love it. I guess price-wise it is close to your Hakko FX888D-23BY. You priced that Hakko at $120, but it is $91 on Amazon. The Weller WES-51 is $93. Whichever one you get, you can pay a lot less than $120! I don't know what the FX-951 has to offer, but I don't think it is necessary to pay more than $100 for a good soldering station.

I would also recommend that you don't forget about the small stuff. Even if you get a Hakko 808, a great soldering station, and a quality multimeter, you want to beef up on things like needle nose pliers, nippers, small screwdrivers, solder wick (still might need that), flux, and some nice tweezers. Wiring? Get some good strippers...err...that is...*wire* strippers. Regular "strippers" can be a bit ...distracting, you know?

Other stuff might include some sort of helping hands (I use Panavise), a solder sucker (you never know), and a good brass wire sponge for cleaning your iron.

[leonk]

About 5 years ago I decided to treat myself to the Weller mentioned above as a Christmas gift. Made in the USA, good brand, what could go wrong. After paying 250$CDN at a local electronic shop I started using it. After a month it broke! The darn thing didn't want to turn on and heat. Took it back and replaced it with Hakko 936 ESD. Made in China.

Went through many tips since but day in day out its a work horse! I even ordered supplies from Hakko USA directly and they called me at home 2 months ago to make sure I'm happy with the supplies!!

Hakko beats Weller in my books.

[system11]

For any regular PCB work as mentioned you absolutely need a vacuum equipped desoldering station.

ESR meter - almost useless, I very rarely use mine at all and it detects problems a multimeter or visual check didn't even less frequently.

Soldering iron - fine point tip, anything else is too heavy duty.

[Ed Oscuro]

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone.

In terms of work - it seems to be rare, but I do have one board which has a lifted trace on it (one of the fine traces leading to a chip on a Heated Barrel board, if that rings any bells - very fine stuff). Is that something I can expect to fix with the Hakko FX-888, or something around that price? I'm sure I could swing the Hakko 951 as well, but getting that would set me further back on procuring a 808.

ESR meter - almost useless, I very rarely use mine at all and it detects problems a multimeter or visual check didn't even less frequently.

Actually, this is a good point for me to consider. I would generally want to recap everything on most of the things I have in mind, rather than doing mix and match, and hoping that no caps fail down the line (as some systems are quite difficult to put back together). Using an ESR meter might save dollars per project (at best) in caps, but as I'm interested in maximizing service life between service, that probably isn't a big deal.

Probably I should look at a logic probe / oscilloscope instead.
And before that, probably a set of "helper hands." I really am starting from scratch here. Edit: Yeah, I'll get a checklist started from the things you mentioned, CkrTech!

@ CkRtech: I'll sell whatever I have to in order to get good quality stuff, if needed. I have known for a while about how much the Hakko stuff costs. Of course, if anybody knows of "as good" stuff out there, feel free to recommend it - but I don't want to take huge quality drops to save a few bucks.

But on that note: "ESD safe," how big a deal is that? I'm not expecting to send a lot of static electricity through the soldering tip during normal use. Would a grounding strap or mat do more or less the same? I'll remember not to wear a shag carpet.

[Ed Oscuro]

Here's an interesting update:
http://www.eevblog.com/2013/11/01/eevbl ... g-station/

There are a few comments within that thread about the utility of buying the "no-name brand" gun from China. It doesn't have the Hakko name but it may have a couple advantages:

- Cheap parts and at least as good reliability
- Two-part design (rather than all-in-one) should not only help reliability but make the unit easier to use for long periods of time.

At the downside, if the company gets sucked up out of the ground, that's it; the game's over.

Another possibility, for people with quite deep pockets, is this unit: http://www.howardelectronics.com/den-on/sc7000.html

GameTechUS also has an amusing little video up comparing various desoldering tools - a few plunger-based devices along with the Hakko 808.

[gct]

Wow... for nearly 15 years, any desoldering I had to do was done with just my usual $8 Chinese soldering iron (fine tip has been replaced once) and a spring-loaded plunger vac. Maybe there have been 4 or 5 times where there was a bit more to clean up and I used some copper braid first and finished up with the vac.

I have a bigger soldering station that gets used once in a blue moon, but for 99.9% of the things I need to do, the little cheapie iron gets it done. I've built several superguns, modded consoles and joysticks, soldered and desoldered SMD ICs with it... Not ultra-precision stuff but I don't run into ultra-precision jobs in this hobby of video gaming.

No need to go super hardcore spending on a professional setup if all you're going to be doing is replacing old capacitors here and there.

...and with that I have probably killed any chance of selling any of my stuff on this forum. Let's just say they ain't no works of art

edit: I can't offer any input on reflowing BGA components... I have a $10 heat gun but I've not used it on anything other than heatshrink tubing.

[Ed Oscuro]

On the Hakko 808, what's a good nozzle size? I know the kits don't usually come with nozzles so I may have to buy one (there goes the money I "saved") or two. I'm thinking the 1mm size, but it might also be necessary to get a finer size and/or a larger one. Again, it seems that the major component I will likely work on is just capacitors.

Are the Chinese listings on eBay real things (from the picture), or counterfeits? Would that matter? Ex:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-New-A1005-1 ... 2a3001dd20

Edit: I list the A1005 there, but I think the A1003 might be a better option actually. Same nozzle size but "S" size (shorter from mounting point to tip, I guess?)

[leonk]

Wow... for nearly 15 years, any desoldering I had to do was done with just my usual $8 Chinese soldering iron (fine tip has been replaced once) and a spring-loaded plunger vac. Maybe there have been 4 or 5 times where there was a bit more to clean up and I used some copper braid first and finished up with the vac.

Sometimes the difference between professional and cheapy isn't noticed until you use it in volume. Imagine on an average week, you need to make 40-50 NES reproductions. Each reproduction cart has 2 32-pin ROM chips. That's a total of 3,200 holes you need to clean and resolder. How long do you think a cheap desolder/solder will last?

When I started nesreproductions.com 12 years ago, I was using solder pens (25-30$ each) and was burning through the tips on a monthly basis! When I switched to Hakko pro grade solder stations, with finer temperature control of the tips, I now replace tips once every 6 months. Tips burn out after having hundreds of hours of usage .. no matter how clean I keep them, and no matter how much I tin them .. heat does that to anything.

Also, with a pro desolder station, I can remove (cleanly) 2 EPROM chips in less than a minute. Using pump/braid, it's closer to 5. Multiply that by 50, and the savings is over 3 hours! Not to mention the cost of braid.

[Ed Oscuro]

What size tips do you use? (Still trying to get a clue on that one.)

[Crafty+Mech]

The 1mm is a good all around purpose tip. You might want a bigger size for large caps.

If you buy a kit like this one (US seller):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hakko-808-KIT-D ... 3f2d034f65

... then you will get the 1mm tip, cleaning tool, spare filters, etc.

I've bought extra tips that looked exactly like the eBay link you posted, but picked them up frm a US seller. A few bucks more but at the time I couldn't wait on delivery from Taiwan.

On the matter of expensive tools, I'll repeat the advice that has been given to me by experts in various disciplines: buy the best tools you can afford. You don't need the best tools to do a great job, but they sure can help!

[Ed Oscuro]

Good stuff. I think I did buy a kit rather like one of those - managed to save $8 and change because it was an auction.

Next thing will be trying to finagle my way into a good soldering station - will have to try to find out more about the relative qualities of the FX-888D-23BY (what a mouthful! But I've memorized that name...) and the FX-951 (which claims to be ESD safe, so possibly important).

[gct]

Sometimes the difference between professional and cheapy isn't noticed until you use it in volume. Imagine on an average week, you need to make 40-50 NES reproductions. Each reproduction cart has 2 32-pin ROM chips. That's a total of 3,200 holes you need to clean and resolder. How long do you think a cheap desolder/solder will last?

Yes, that is very true. However I am not working with such volumes and I don't expect Mr.Ed O. to either. What I have serves my needs, no more and no less.

[cfx]

.

[CkRtech]

Dang. Sorry to hear about you guys having bad experiences with Weller.

[eightbitminiboss]

Yeah, it's weird. My first iron was a Weller after so many recommendations and high ratings for the WLC100. But only after a few months the iron just stopped working and wouldn't keep heat. I was sorely disappointed. Picked up a Hakko FX-888D though and haven't looked back though after getting it on sale.

[philexile]

Metcal.

[philexile]

I had the same experience with an expensive Weller as well back in August!

About 5 years ago I decided to treat myself to the Weller mentioned above as a Christmas gift. Made in the USA, good brand, what could go wrong. After paying 250$CDN at a local electronic shop I started using it. After a month it broke! The darn thing didn't want to turn on and heat. Took it back and replaced it with Hakko 936 ESD. Made in China.

Went through many tips since but day in day out its a work horse! I even ordered supplies from Hakko USA directly and they called me at home 2 months ago to make sure I'm happy with the supplies!!

Hakko beats Weller in my books.

[CkRtech]

Maybe I should take bets as to when mine gives out. Lol.

...wait. Why am I laughing.

[philexile]

Just buy a Metcal at that point. They sell refurbished irons and go out of their way to make sure hobbyist get taken care of. Give them a ring.

Maybe I should take bets a to when mine gives out. Lol.

...wait. Why am I laughing.

[eightbitminiboss]

Yep, have Metcals in the nearby labs I work in. But kinda pricey, even for refurbished units for DIY'ers.

[Crafty+Mech]

Anyone have experience with Xytronic? I've used one of their adjustable temp stations for years and it has been very reliable. Thinking about upgrading though and wondering if their more premium offerings are comparable to other popular brands.

[Ed Oscuro]

Prices on these Hakko soldering station alternatives? The FX-888D looks pretty affordable at $100 - much beyond that and I will probably have to cede defeat. Already spent quite a bit on the 808!

[Ed Oscuro]

Little update - Hakko 808 arrived. It was listed as 'new' but has obviously seen some use - the installed window has little splotches from solder here and there (some of which I sorted out) and there was a tiny twig or two of solder on the nozzle. However, aside from this minor use and a bit of scuffing on the sides of the gun, it is pretty close: has unopened accessories - will have to check the packing list but it's close at least - and a May 2013 manufacture sticker (I think). Still, the use on the nozzle does burn my ass a little because that means that the lifetime of the parts could be less than I wanted. The current window, prefilter, and filter don't seem to be any big deal.

$8 will buy me another new nozzle for sure.

Maybe I should just start it up and see how it works before I decide. If this thing has something else wrong with it, it's going back for sure.

Not really sure if I should bother raising a fuss given that I saved about eight whole US dollars over getting a really new unit. What savings!

[system11]

Is the nozzle bronzed from heat? If not it was probably just tested.

[Ed Oscuro]

Oh, it's bronzed alright. I noticed that straightaway. I don't know the term actually - I assume you mean that there's a bit of a bronze tint that's deeper near the end than the body. There's a bit of that.

There's also enough scuffs here and there on the high points of the design to make me think that the unit was thrown into an otherwise new box package. Maybe got swapped out with a new one.

At the very least I'll be withholding good feedback from these people unless I get some satisfaction. Actually, I guess it won't hurt to just write them up now.

[system11]

Yeah if it's brand new it shouldn't have a gold/copper tint towards the hotter end, it'll appear after a few uses but not just from a quick test.