Sony BVM setup

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Some1
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Sony BVM setup

Post by Some1 »

Hi, everybody!
I recently got a Sony BVM-20F1E with the BKM-21D expansion board. But while RGB works great, I can't for the life of me get Composite to display properly.
I'm trying to connect a PS1 through Composite. I put the cable in one of the slots on the 21D, but when I set it to any kind of Composite (PAL, NTSC) in the INPUT menu, the picture is black and white and really ugly.
Could someone help me out :?:
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Fudoh
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Fudoh »

wrong forum, but - just seeing that you're from Europe - you know that PAL Playstation systems don't output real NTSC using composite when using a NTSC game, right ?
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by BulletMagnet »

Moved to Hardware.
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Monstermug
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Monstermug »

Think you just stick the composite cable in the green or sync input slot of the 21d expansion slot (forgot which) and then set the input to composite auto on the monitor. (Dont forget to switch to the right port number). Fudoh will be more qualified to answer this though.
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Some1
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Some1 »

you know that PAL Playstation systems don't output real NTSC using composite when using a NTSC game, right ?
Yes, but I was trying everything. The game's PAL, anyway (Strikers 1945 II).
Moved to Hardware.
Will be more careful in the future.
Think you just stick the composite cable in the green or sync input slot of the 21d expansion slot (forgot which) and then set the input to composite auto on the monitor.
The 21D doesn't even have a Sync input, which I find weird. As for the green (or red, or blue) input - a picture does show, but it's, again, black and white, even when set to Composite AUTO. :?

I'm starting to be afraid the board's faulty (though, it displays RGB just fine).
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Fudoh
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Fudoh »

Just wondering: do you really need composite on a BVM ?
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Some1
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Some1 »

Not right now, but I will probably buy an NES soon.
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Fudoh »

Not right now, but I will probably buy an NES soon.
please: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47617
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by ApolloBoy »

Fudoh wrote:
Not right now, but I will probably buy an NES soon.
please: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47617
Once you've experienced that, you'll never want to use composite on the NES ever again.
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Some1
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Some1 »

That looks awesome, but still... I've already bought the board, so it would be a waste just giving up. And after the NES, what if I buy another system? I don't want to mod every console I get.

Anyway, I tried using different inputs, 75 Ohm terminators on the output jacks, putting the board in other slots, setting the imput to PAL-S, PAL-D, I even set it to YUV and RGB just to see what would happen. But nothing, just black/white. :( Oddly enough, there seem to be some traces of colour in these bands that keep running up and down the screen.

Could it be the TV's software messing with me? The manual (http://www.manualowl.com/m/Sony/BKM-21D/Manual/252295) said something about the software being over 1.40 if the board's serial is 2100001 or higher, and mine are 1.30 and 2007414 respectively.
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Most other systems have RGB available, although it can take some tweaking to get each one's brightness levels right.

Personally I'm with you - having composite support is a fine thing, even for a BVM, and especially for the NES. That being said, a BVM doesn't seem like the choice I'd have for composite. There are still quite a few good TVs with composite input, which lets us save some hours on the pro/broadcast monitors.
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Some1
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Some1 »

Yeah, I agree, but since I already have the BVM, I thought I might as well set it up for everything.

Well, I'll try to fix it up somehow. Otherwise, I guess I'll just mod and use RGB. :|

One final thing which I found interesting: upon closer inspection, the colours did seem to show above the black/white base, but it was like they were displaced to the left and were really weak, if that makes sense. :? If I could upload some pics, that would be nice.

Anyway, thanks to all who have helped so far. If anyone has any other advice, feel free to tell.
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Ed Oscuro
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Almost sounds like a convergence issue...I had something similar happen with my supergun, when RGB levels (= voltages) were set too high. I doubt that could be the issue here, though, since the NES levels should be pretty standard.
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Some1
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Some1 »

Hmm... But convergence has something to do with the magnets around the electron gun, right? So if that were the case, every input, regardless whether it was composite or something else, would have these problems. And again, RGB doesn't. I even asked the guy who sold it to me and he said there were no problems.

This might be a bit silly, but could the RCA-BNC converter be the problem?

Anyway, how difficult would it be to fix the convergence if it did end up being what's causing this?
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Key phrase is "almost like;" I think that can be ruled out (unless there is some property where convergence works differently across different inputs...doubtful).

Likewise, you can certainly count out the bayonet mount adapters, if they are made passably well. Likewise, it's composite, so the cable quality shouldn't matter. I assume the console's working fine on other displays, so count that out as well. I also assume that the BKM-21D was installed and used before being sent out - there is a possible software incompatibility between the BVM and the BKM-21D but I really doubt this is the issue.

So likely there is an issue with the BKM-21D or the way you've hooked it up.

In any case, you will want to download this and read it thoroughly (starting on page 29):
http://www.manualslib.com/download/2632 ... m-21d.html
It's free so no worries there. Good to have around even if you don't crack it open ever again (and get the BVM manual if you don't have it, too).

Specifically, you want to look at the second paragraph on page 30.

If that's not at issue, it might be termination-related. Some members have talked about similar experiences here (bottom of the page):
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48490

I hope something here is useful for you!
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Some1
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Some1 »

Thanks, I'll read through all that.

One final thing, in case everything else fails:
when I hooked up composite to the green input and set it to RGB, the picture was green (for blue - blue, red - red). Could I take my RCA cable, use splitters to get three cables, and hook them up to the G, B and R input to get a fully-coloured picture?
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Ed Oscuro »

No, that is not going to work properly. You need to find and use a composite input.

Actually a thought does come to mind - have you looked at the BVM menu / input buttons? I don't know if the BVM has automatic detection, but you might need to find and select composite, if it's expecting another signal. But I think this usually just applies to switching between YPbPr component and RGB.
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Some1
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Some1 »

Yes, I've looked at them thoroughly, switched to every possible option, but to no avail.

Anyway, I've finally found out how to upload pictures, so here they are, just in case anyone was wondering what it looked like (probably no-one :wink: ).

This is how it's set up:

Image
Image


This is the result I get:

Image
Image

Pretty, wouldn't you agree? :?

One thing I haven't mentioned and can't be seen here is that the brightness of the screen violently jumps from very dark to very bright.
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Fudoh
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Fudoh »

put a 75 ohm BNC terminator on the loop output under the input you're using. worth a try.
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Some1
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Some1 »

Yeah, got four of those with the TV, but they didn't change anything. Also, I've certainly ruled out the PS1, the cable and the RCA>BNC plug, so the error's either in the board (which I have installed properly (seriously, I combed through that manual)) or in the monitor. :( It is picking up all the colours (turn off the red and blue channel = green picture), but they just aren't coming together properly.

I might try updating the software to 1.40, but I can't find the update anywhere (actually, I'm not surprised, seeing how old this thing is).
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Fudoh
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Fudoh »

did you try any other composite source. Maybe a VHS or DVD player ?
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Some1
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Some1 »

Yup, I tried a DVD player. Same problem - RGB fine, Composite butchered. I really don't think the hardware I'm hooking up has anything to do with it.
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Wait a second, you installed the board in the monitor? I had assumed the BKM came with the monitor. The manual was pretty adamant about installation steps, and also making sure the software version of the BVM was up to date. I'm sure you haven't missed that now, but it might be worth double-checking that.
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Some1
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Some1 »

Yes, I bought the board seperately, and yes, the manual did say something about the software version, more precisely:

The BVM's software must be ver. 1.40 if the board's serial is 2100001 or higher. However, mine are 1.30 and 2007414 respectively. Now, I think 2007... is less than 2100...     Still, I would perform the update - if I could find it! (Okay, I actually did find it here: https://www.servicesplus.sel.sony.com/s ... 20F1U.aspx  for the low, low price of  $275 :shock: . Seriously, it should be for free!)
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Fudoh
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Fudoh »

call the Sony pro service by phone or try emailling them. They will provide you the software for free, unless there's a hardware update involved.
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Some1
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Some1 »

O... M... G... :o Composite is finally okay! And all I had to do was reset the card to factory settings! And I threw away hours trying to get it to work! :x

Anyway, thanks to all who helped out!

And, as always - (look at signature) :D
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Extremely happy for you! Thanks for the free triforce also :D
herbscottie
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by herbscottie »

I'm so jealous mines doing same thing. Flickering a bit and bw :( just reset bkm-21d but didn't help much, any other ideas? Mines a bvm-d20f1u though.
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Re: Sony BVM setup

Post by herbscottie »

Nvrm, I'm going all component and rgb lol
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