Shinobi (ps2) and Nightshade any good?

[Squire Grooktook]

Recently hit by a passing wave of nostalgia for Revenge of Shinobi and Shinobi 3 on Genesis, and suddenly decided to look up the Ps2 reboot and it's sequel after they had dropped off my radar on initial release. They look and sound pretty fun, would anyone here recommend them?

[Obiwanshinobi]

Absolutely commendable.
Clearing Shinobi with any character (and keeping the savestate) allows you to play Nightshade/Kunoichi with the same character.

[CIT]

Yeah, they are awesome. Nice and difficult too!

[BIL]

Shinobi (2002) is quite good, if a bit flawed. The basic system revolves around speed, both in quickly navigating dangerous platforming environments and efficiently taking down waves of enemies. Failure to keep a high enough pace will see your demonic sword start eating into your health.

Game design is mostly complementary to this. Much simpler, arcadier type of 3D combat in comparison to DMC, NG etc - enemies are more swarming obstacles to be destroyed swiftly than lethal threats in their own right. They appear in distinct waves, and taking down several small fry in quick succession will both power up your attacks to better slaughter the remainder, and also yield more chi for your sword. This speedkilling is vital at higher difficulties*, the sword will eat a hesitant or shaky player alive. Technique boils down to using the shadowing dash to slip behind enemies for 2x-damaging backstabs, instead of bashing away from the front. Like all good arcade action this is more hectic in practice than it sounds.

There are no weapon or inventory upgrades whatsoever, you're given all your tools at the start. Levels involve zero fetch questing, just linear A to B progression with some nicely tough bosses. Controls are razor-sharp, with a near-unshakeable 60fps framerate.

Unfortunately the level designs tend to be a bit overlong for this kind of simplicity, which can make things monotonous. The corresponding lack of checkpoints and abundance of instant pit deaths is infamous and potentially frustrating, though it'll probably not worry veterans of harder gaming. Camera can be awkward during vertically-descending areas, though these are luckily very rare.

Stylistically it's got a cool traditional Japanese/vintage synths soundtrack, and although graphically quite simple the regular explosions of dismembering gore* accompanying skilled play give it considerable visual impact.

Overall I like it a lot, though it's easy to see where it could've been improved.

*If you've a choice, go for the US version. Only it includes the highest difficulty level "Super," where the game's speedkilling system truly shines. JP and EU weinered out and knocked everything down by one, with a new easier bottom rung. They also toned down the gore, so yeah, fuck 'em. :3

[ACSeraph]

*If you've a choice, go for the US version. Only it includes the highest difficulty level "Super," where the game's speedkilling system truly shines. JP and EU weinered out and knocked everything down by one, with a new easier bottom rung. They also toned down the gore, so yeah, fuck 'em. :3

Interesting that the JP version was both easier and censored. Did the US version come out first or something? Or was it just a case like Ninja Gaiden 2 where the game was made extra violent to appeal to the American market?

I always hated that Nightshade removed 99% of the gore.

[BIL]

According to GameFAQs the US was first, then JP a month or so later, and EU several months after that. I always figured the JP censoring was due to the region's apparent squeamishness about the ol' dismemberings/decapitations (same situation with Biohazard 4 and God Hand). In US, if something gets caught in a TATE massacre it's getting sliced to bits, no exceptions. In JP/EU it's only monster-type enemies that get diced, everything else just kind of flops over. Booo!

[ACSeraph]

All of that really came about due to a murder case involving an elementary school student who was obsessed with violent video games. Around the same time Samsho V Special had hit arcades and caused something of a stir for basically being Japan's mortal Kombat, and video games violence in general became a scapegoat for the crime. Censorship became standard practice after that, and persists to this day. It's also why we never saw a release of Samsho V Special in it's uncensored format outside of the very first unpatched AES print run.

I was just surprised that a game as old as Shinobi would be more violent in the US given that a lot of the early Japanese censorship applied to the US versions too, like Code Veronia breaking RE's long tradition of dismemberment.

The easier thing though? That's actually really common here. Japanese console gamers aren't quite as hardcore as they are made out to be.

[BIL]

Interesting, I figured there had to be a relatively recent explanation for modern JP censoring. What with vintage 90s stuff like Tenchi wo Kurau II gleefully booting off heads and exploding torsos left and right.

Yeah, the difficulty reduction doesn't surprise me at all. As much as I enjoy JP game collecting, Akumajo Densetsu, Ninja Ryukenden III, Vampire Killer and The Hard Corps all make me want to reacquire the harder US versions I grew up with.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I think less graphic violence in Kunoichi was a pretty bold move. Violence in games doesn't do much for me anymore.*) Although admittedly, in Shinobi it didn't seem too exploitative, the story being all doom and gloom. Nightshade's got a lighter tone all around.

Like all the best Sega games, these are meant to be played for speed. Even though speedrunning isn't rewarded with any in-game trophies, speedruns are the most impressive replay videos out there. If you enjoyed the original Super Monkey Ball or F-Zero GX Story Mode (some would namedrop NiGHTS and Jet Set Radio here, but I'm still not sure whether I'd count 'em among best), you can't go wrong with the 2002 Shinobi.
Arcade in the sense you want to rush forward rather than make the run last longer. The coolest kids won't hog the machine.**) I think it would be a sweet game to play in other folks' company taking turns.

*) Can't say I didn't enjoy knifing bugs, lizards and cutesy droids in Republic Commando lately.
**) Were they hogging Crazy Taxi cabs? I wouldn't know.

[Mortificator]

Love Shinobi, hate Nightshade.

I think less graphic violence in Kunoichi was a pretty bold move. Violence in games doesn't do much for me anymore.

Along those lines, the first version of Samurai Shodown V Special felt crass to me. Unique fatalities sans dismemberment, the release labeled "less censored" in MAME, was a happy medium.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Thinking back, I wouldn't say Sega made any grave mistake around that time. Just kept doing what they were actually good at and it wasn't their fault such (for lack of a better word) basic games weren't system sellers anymore. The last one that gave me the "whoa, next-gen!" kind of buzz was the PSP Ridge Racer, but I can't remember it being all the rage back then.

[ACSeraph]

It's been a while since I read up on it, but it seems that a the tidal wave of movement towards censorship followed Samsho V Special. SNK's decision to censor the game was in response to the Sasebo Slashing, however Shinobi, Code Veronica and some others predate that event, so the issue must be more complex. My guess is that it surely has something to do with Japan's typical reactionary responses to tragedies and problems in general. I'm interested in knowing more, because it's definitely not as simple as Japan becoming squeamish around 2000.

[BIL]

On the subject of good Shinobi play, some excellent S-Rank replays on this player's channel demonstrating particularly nice use of the enemy-freezing kunai and devastating charge attack (devastating to enemies if properly used / to your health if abused).

edit: nice to see Shinobi, Strider and Ninja Gaiden topics on the front page. OG videogame ninja crew.

[Skykid]

So consensus is Kunoichi is inferior?

[ACSeraph]

So consensus is Kunoichi is inferior?

If it is it isn't by much. Both games are worth playing, but I like the ultra-violence and Japanese voice over option offered by Shinobi a bit better.

[GaijinPunch]

It's been a while since I read up on it, but it seems that a the tidal wave of movement towards censorship followed Samsho V Special. SNK's decision to censor the game was in response to the Sasebo Slashing, however Shinobi, Code Veronica and some others predate that event, so the issue must be more complex. My guess is that it surely has something to do with Japan's typical reactionary responses to tragedies and problems in general. I'm interested in knowing more, because it's definitely not as simple as Japan becoming squeamish around 2000.

I would like to read someone's findings on this. I watched an episode of Gatchaman that was randomly on TV not long ago. Joe randomly pummels some guy. Pure violence, just not tons of blood. But yeah, Japan has become more and more conservative over the years, where the rest of the world has (more or less) become more liberal. I found the game rating system, and censorship in general to be a head scratcher though, as they are still lax on many other things... or at least enforcing other things. Drinking, smoking, pay for pussy, etc. People are expected to follow rules.

So consensus is Kunoichi is inferior?

I played Kunoichi first. As such, when I went back to Shinobi it took me a long time to get used to the lack of acrobatics. (In Kunoichi, if you kill an enemy in-air, you are awarded with another jump... or something like that. It's been 10 years.). Anyway, they're both really fun and should be tried. They have controller-breaking difficulty though.

[Acid King]

Aside from the lack of gore, Nightshade plays a bit differently and has a greater emphasis on linked aerial attacks. You can perform one dash and one jump after landing an attack in the air in Shinobi. Nightshade added a kick button, which allows you to break enemy blocks easier on the ground but also adds a homing jump kick when in the air. So now instead of a jump and a dash, you can jump, dash, then homing kick after each successful air attack and you can cover much larger areas without touching the ground. Air combat feels less rushed, and a bit less visceral, than it does in Shinobi but is still a lot of fun.

The corresponding lack of checkpoints and abundance of instant pit deaths is infamous and potentially frustrating, though it'll probably not worry veterans of harder gaming. Camera can be awkward during vertically-descending areas, though these are luckily very rare.

The worst offender here by far is Stage 6, with the narrow corridors and descending stage progression with the bottomless shafts. That stage was a lot of trial and error because of how difficult it is to get the camera in a good position to even see whats around you.

[Squire Grooktook]

Thanks for the replies, my birthday is coming up, so I think I'll order both games.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Is it actually true that the Japanese and European versions are outright easier than the US one? I thought that all versions had the same three difficulties, but that the non-US ones just changed the names around.

[BIL]

Nope - the latter two are actually missing the US's third and final difficulty tier, and add an exclusive easier one instead. US Normal and Hard are still great experiences, so it's not like the game is ruined in JP/EU, but US Super takes the time attack massacre system to its frenzied extreme. Akujiki demands huge, constant TATE bloodbaths, and with enemy aggression, HP and attack power off the scale only the most finessed slaying will keep the gore raining down and the chi rolling in. ABSOLUTE VIOLENCE GAMING. (at least if you stick with Hotsuma. Despite his accelerated chi drain, Moritsune kind of trivialises Super with his massive damage output)

[Obiwanshinobi]

The worst offender here by far is Stage 6, with the narrow corridors and descending stage progression with the bottomless shafts. That stage was a lot of trial and error because of how difficult it is to get the camera in a good position to even see whats around you.

I stopped using the right stick in Shinobi early on. Sega did seem to have a problem putting player in control of the camera.