Gradius V & R-Type Final.

[ST Dragon]

Ok, so I got Gradius V & R-Type Final today for my PS-2.

About Gradius V, all I can say is, Wow!
This is the 1st Gradius game that doesn’t punish you at every wrong turn, the checkpoints can be disabled, controls are precise, and the simplified control system that allows you to control the multiples at will, is an awesome additions.
I could expect nothing less from the creators of Radiant Silvergun & Ikaruga.
It does have an “RS” & “Ikaruga” feel indeed.

The graphics are amazing; with vivid, reach colours and huge end level bosses, this must be the best non-handrawn, pseudo 3D graphics since X-2 (Team17) on the PS-1.
The graphics & lavel layout do resemble Silpheed 2 quite a bit too imo.

Now, about R-Type Final; it’s got the traditional merciless R-Type gameplay 7 difficulties, with those annoying check points. Now I’m totally convinced that R-Type is simply not my style.
From the gameplay and the level structure, one can tell that IREM used R-Type Delta as a backbone to develop this one.
Graphics are amazing, but the colours aren’t as vivid as in Gradius V.
Some of the 3D models might be a bit better than Gradius V though.
Now, I’ve read some wild stuff about R-Type Final having slowdowns & such, but I did not notice a thing up to level 3 which I reached.
In the manual, IREM states that this will be the “Final” R-Type game from them.
I wonder if that’s true?

Both Gradius V & R-Type Final, have some cool Techno soundtrack completely new to the series, which I thought was a nice change imo.
Not quite as cool as RayStorm, RayForce, Thunder Force V, as they’re both missing those catchy Boss tunes.

Both games, are great additions for every self respecting Shmupers collection imo.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Now proceed to get yourself Gradius Gaiden.

[ST Dragon]

Well, I do have a copy lying around somewhere, but I couldn’t get past the huge Easter Island Head Bosses (I think it was level 4), so I got fed up with the annoying check points & never bothered with it again.
Maybe I ought to try it again sometime…
About how much does the original cost by the way?

[sven666]

Now proceed to get yourself Gradius Gaiden.

thats actually pretty funny..

gradius 5 < gradius gaiden

rtype final < rtype delta

last-gen rocks!!

[MSZ]

last-gen rocks!!

Indeed, last gen rocks.

[extrarice]

rtype final < rtype delta

I dunno, the end of Final actually pissed me off. You HUD is damaged and ship crippled in such a way that there's no clue as to what you're supposed to do. The delay required to do that last thing is so large and there's no feedback that it's even working, that the only reason I finished the game was because I bored and pissed off.

Heh, how's that for trying to not spoil the end

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Well, I do have a copy lying around somewhere, but I couldn’t get past the huge Easter Island Head Bosses (I think it was level 4), so I got fed up with the annoying check points & never bothered with it again.
Maybe I ought to try it again sometime…
About how much does the original cost by the way?

Dude, Gaiden is teh easy. You can easily recover because of all the powerups lying around, but if you can't stand checkpoints, I can see how you'd not like it. Most people with some skill 1CC it within a couple of weeks. The second loop is a totally different story though. Even I get annoyed when I lose in the second loop since it's considerably harder to recover.

[karasuman]

Embarassing admission:

I got to the end of R Type Final back when I picked it up (like 2 weeks after it came out). I sat there for forever trying to figure out the last boss. (I had used quite a few continues to get to it, this wasn't a perfect run or anything). Anyway, I finally figured out what you were supposed to do (i.e., sit there forever... ^_^), I get it ready, I hit the button... there's a power surge and the PS2 resets. $%#@$%!!!! I was so annoyed, since I had spent like 2 hours getting there.

The embarassing part is that I never actually went back and finished the game. I don't know, the last couple years I kind of fell out of games due to like depression and various other life factors. It's only the last few months I really started getting back into stuff, I've picked up like 20 PS2 games and have been cranking through the last 2-3 years of games. One of these days I need to sit down and actually finish it (along with Gradius V, I don't think I ever sat down and got past level 6).

R Type Final wasn't as good as R Type Delta, that's for sure. I don't know if it's just that Delta was the first R Type I really went through to completion, but I enjoy that game so much more. Then again, the other games in the series are all a blast, so I think it is just Final. Maybe it is more interesting on the hardest difficulty, I didn't get around to trying it. But the stage design is so laid back at times. In most other R Type games, there are always several memorable "WTF!!!!" moments. The part in R Type III level 4 when you beat the laser boss and the screen starts scrolling backwards, the part in Delta level 5 with the spinning debris field, the infamous 2nd section of level 7 in the original R Type. The only memorable levels in Final were 3, 6, and maybe 5. Now, maybe I just never played it enough to see its beauty, but I didn't think it was the best in the series. I really hope they make an R Type 6 some day (R Type Final 2? R Type Rebirth?) I didn't think Final's stages were really that interesting. The ship designs were cool, however.

[gs68]

I dunno, G-Gaiden's lost its charm for me.

It was awesome at first but now I've come to like G5 better, since it's more challenging and requires more coordination and thinking to get out of sticky situations. If only it had Gaiden's level and weapon variety.

[Herr Schatten]

It does have an “RS” & “Ikaruga” feel indeed.

And that's exactly what I strongly dislike about Gradius V. It plays more like a horizontal Ikaruga and lost most of the Gradius feel. I can see how that appeals to many people, but personally I don't like it. I mean, it's no big deal that they left out stuff like the trademark Moais, but it shows that they don't really care about the history of the series and this mindset shows in the gameplay too. Like in many a Treasure game, something that starts out as an interesting detail (in this case: the advanced options control mechanics) becomes absolutely necessary to master in later stages, thus turning it into an annoying gimmick, imo. While playing Gradius V I always feel like I'm not playing a Gradius anymore, although that is probably a major reason for some people to like the game. You all know me as someone who is not overly fond of Treasure's outputs, so you might want to take my opinions with a grain of salt here.

The Graphics are fine, but they are not very Gradius-like either and closer akin to Ikaruga. There's too little of the amazing variety of all previous Gradii for my taste.

Gradius V is a fine game, but it's flawed and doesn't come near Gradius II, let alone Gaiden. Oh yes, and the unskippable cutscenes in the middle of stages are inexcusable.

Now, I’ve read some wild stuff about R-Type Final having slowdowns & such, but I did not notice a thing up to level 3 which I reached.

R-Type Final is a wonderfully athmospheric game that tries too hard to be a fan service to succeed as an actual game. The first stage is pretty pointless, but from the second one on it really picks up. There's major slowdown in stage 3, but it has never really bothered me. Unfortunately, to make it playable with 101 different ships the creators had to make the stage design quite loose and that's something I don't like about the game. If there's ever gonna be an R-Type Final 2 (not very likely) I want it to have only the R-9A Arrowhead and no other ships. And then some levels optimized for the use of that one ship.

R-Type Final is a nice game (and one that I like a good chunk more than Gradius V, although you can't really compare the two) and a worthy addition to the series. It's not as good as the first one, III or Delta, but I like it better than II and Super.

[Bloodreign]

I own both, love them both, put more hours into Gradius 3/4, odd eh.

Managed to unlock some ships, but it's the only R-Type game I own (till I start back collecting them), the music in stage 3 is so somber and relaxing, you feel like you're not in a shooting experience, it seems too relaxing, but I digress the time I've spent on Final has been totally worth it, even if Delta is a notch above Final.

[Zaarock]

I dont like checkpoints at all either, thank god gradius V doesent have them, otherwise i probably wouldnt have bought it, tons of fun!

[ST Dragon]

Ok, I reached level 3 in R-Type Final, but there is no way I can pass the part right after the Mecha descends from the battle cruiser (Hanging from a cable). I always lose right after, when all the cannons on the top of the cruiser start firing at me.
What’s worse is that the check point that I’m thrown back to is, the part where I have to blow up the huge particle cannon on the right of the ship.

The check points in this game are getting very tiresome indeed!

Any ideas?
Help needed please, to a poor fellow shmuper that is getting his ass kicked by Irem’s superior, software engineering, war machine!

[SAM]

The check points in this game are getting very tiresome indeed!

I don't mind shmups got check points. In fact, for some games like Flying Shark, Trigon, I like the version having check points more.

But for R-Type Final, I tends to agree wiht you. It too boring to start at the check point again. There is too few action between the check point to the point you die. Even worse, some check points are set before cutscreens FMV, and the FMV cannot be skiped . Huge waste of time.

The action won't heat up until reaching the later stages. I really don't like this game. I would rather play Super R-Type than this one.

I love Gradius V.

[ROBOTRON]

rtype final < rtype delta

I dunno, the end of Final actually pissed me off. You HUD is damaged and ship crippled in such a way that there's no clue as to what you're supposed to do. The delay required to do that last thing is so large and there's no feedback that it's even working, that the only reason I finished the game was because I bored and pissed off.

Heh, how's that for trying to not spoil the end

Gradius V was all around good....but so was R-Type Final...untill the last boss.

Thats why I give G5 more points than R-Type Final because the last boss was straight BS for the reasons extrarice gave.

I hate R-Type Finals last boss.

[WarpZone]

Ok, I reached level 3 in R-Type Final, but there is no way I can pass the part right after the Mecha descends from the battle cruiser (Hanging from a cable). I always lose right after, when all the cannons on the top of the cruiser start firing at me.
What’s worse is that the check point that I’m thrown back to is, the part where I have to blow up the huge particle cannon on the right of the ship.

The check points in this game are getting very tiresome indeed!

Any ideas?

What you want to try and do is kill the mecha before you reach the part with the cannons. When the mecha's just sitting on the ship firing straight across to the left at you, you'll want to be a bit below him. Throw your force at him so it causes constant damage (I believe certain forces 'lock on' to enemies, so it helps if you have one of those) and fire a few charge shots. That should kill him before you'd be forced to move upwards and leave him alive. Then the cannons should be easy.

The checkpoints actually get worse in later stages, sorry to say.

[ST Dragon]

Thanks for the tip!
That worked out, but you were right... it only got much worse later on!

OK, so I tried the codes for R-Type Final PS-2, provided by gamefaqs & IGN, but the only one that seems to work in the EURO PAL version, is the invincibility code.
Are the rest right or do they only work on the JPN / US version of the game?

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/code/915108.html

R-Type Final Codes:

Pause the game, and then hold L2 while pressing the following buttons:

99.9% dose - R2, R2, LEFT, RIGHT, UP, DOWN, RIGHT, LEFT, UP, DOWN, TRIANGLE

Max red weapon power - R2, R2, LEFT, RIGHT, UP, DOWN, RIGHT, LEFT, UP, DOWN, SQUARE

Max blue weapon power - R2, R2, LEFT, RIGHT, UP, DOWN, RIGHT, LEFT, UP, DOWN, CIRCLE

Max yellow power - R2, R2, LEFT, RIGHT, UP, DOWN, RIGHT, LEFT, UP, DOWN, X

The right invincibility code for the PAL version is:

Right, Right, Left, Right, Left, Left, Right, Left, R1, Up, Up, Down, Down, Up, Down, Up, Down, R1

However, the rest don't seem to work...
The Charge Dose to 99.9% code for the PAL version would be nice.

Thanks in advance.

[WarpZone]

Try these...

http://www.gamewinners.com/playstation2/R-TypeFinal.htm

And yeah, to me R-Type Final has too many flaws, such as checkpoint placement, to be able to play very 'seriously'. I think it's best to view the game as sort of a survival horror shmup, if that makes any sense, that you play more for the aesthetic thrills. The structure still isn't very suited to this, but I tend to use the invincibility code now.

[Neo Rasa]

R-Type Final is a great game, but it does have flaws. I mean ALL OF LEVEL THREE IS IN SLOW MOTION. That's why you don't notice it too much, because it's always there. Arg. They should have optimized that, I only want slowdown in a shmup if there's either massive amount of bullets flying at me or when a boss explodes.

Gradius V is a great effort, everyone should love that game.

Both of these are like $20 new, get both and it's still less than one new game.

To me the main thing R-Type Final needed was more levels. I would have liked more branches so that you could exploit all the different ship abilities in cooler ways. I do like the darker, Last Resort-like asthetic more than Gradius V's setting though.

[dai jou bu]

I played R-Type Final once, and I realized that I wasn't dying a lot after the first stage (wasted a credit on the first stage though). That wasn't a good sign. The second sign was Irem when decided not to take off the slowdown found in Delta instead of finding a good balance between a smooth, steady framerate to run on (preferrably 60fps) and nice visuals. The third sign correlates to the first in that the levels were quite empty and very uncalculated in determining how the enemy formations/obstacles will kill you because you still haven't learned the stage layout/boss patterns yet.

In short, R-Type Final < Gradius V < R-Type Series

Notice how Gradius V was used to compare R-Type games. That was no accident. Gradius V places a lot of emphaisis on using your option style as best as possible throughout several sectors of the game. However, unlike R-Type, Gradius V tends to give you safe spots to hide in at times, while in R-Type these were quite rare. Treasure's take on the series' style (Moai-free game) was also interesting, so that's a plus as well.

[ST Dragon]

Try these...

http://www.gamewinners.com/playstation2/R-TypeFinal.htm

And yeah, to me R-Type Final has too many flaws, such as checkpoint placement, to be able to play very 'seriously'. I think it's best to view the game as sort of a survival horror shmup, if that makes any sense, that you play more for the aesthetic thrills. The structure still isn't very suited to this, but I tend to use the invincibility code now.

Thanks, those new codes worked fine.

Well, I'm not a "Cheats" person & very rarely use cheats, but I'm not going to stand another minute R-Type Finals's annoying check points!

[Accutron]

The invincibility code is useful for running out the ship unlock timer. At the end of level 3, don't destroy the parts of the battleship that conceal the boss. Park your ship in the far upper left corner, and the game will get stuck in an infinite loop just before the the boss battle. Go get a cup of coffee (or a long lunch), let the timer burn for whatever amount of time you need, then exit the game or expose the boss and continue from there.

[ST Dragon]

Interesting.
I thought of doing that the 1st time I reached that spot, but I didn't think it would have any effect.

OK, I'm going to try that now & go for a walk.

Thanks.

[FRO]

I don't mind shmups got check points. In fact, for some games like Flying Shark, Trigon, I like the version having check points more.

I agree 100%. Flying Shark (or Fire Shark) are perfect examples. If you respawn in a bullet storm, even if you get that coveted few seconds of invulnerability, you're usually right back in a situation where you're most certainly going to die.

I just bought Gradius V, though I haven't had the opportunity to play it yet. My wife won't let me open my PS2 until Christmas Eve since it's my present. However, I'm starting out my PS2 collection right w/ 4 shmups: Gradius V, Castle Shikigami 2, Silpheed: Lost Planet, & Mobile Light Force 2 (aka Shikigami no Shiro). Hopefully the checkpoint aspect of G V won't suck & will actually be benificial like the aforementioned games.

[ST Dragon]

So I completed R-Type Final.
It took me some time to figure out what I had to do in the Final Bydo Boss.

But WTF?
Where is my cool FMV ending sequence with the R-9 flying the hell out of the exploding Bydo Core & the nice epic / dramatic music following the blast like RayStorm?
All I get is a brown tunnel with the R-9 floating inside it!?

It's not supposed to end like this. It smells like rotten meat but I think I got ripped off in that aspect.
Unless of course I'm missing something?

[WarpZone]

^
Well, there are a few different paths through the game. Without giving too much away, next time you get back to the 5th boss, you'll notice it'll have some extra "tabs" sticking off of it- try hitting those before you beat the boss (they don't appear until you beat the game first).

[BulletMagnet]

Hopefully the checkpoint aspect of G V won't suck & will actually be benificial like the aforementioned games.

Actually, by default the game lets you respawn in place, though you can turn checkpoints on if you want to.

[Dartagnan1083]

R-Type Series < Thunderforce II.

Serriously. . .I shouldn't have to deal with an oversized hitbox and stages that force me to memorize 37 individual safespots in sequence for each screen.

To quote a great man (woman?)...

"R-Type is a video game "classic" in the same way Birth of a Nation is a movie "classic." Okay, so R-Type may not be a racist tribute to the Ku Klux Klan, but they're both highly regarded turning points for their respective artistic fields that just aren't relevant today. R-Type is slow, plodding, and memorization heavy; don't waste your time with its archaic design. . ."
-Geoff

http://www.deeko.com/readfeature.asp?id=10&p=10


While I do agree that Gradius V lacks the gradius style in music and presentation, it's still a damn fine game.
R-type Final and Delta are nice and all, but the style of the series in general is cumbersome IMHO.


and now for my R-type FINAL last boss story.
after strugling to get TO the last boss (it's not so much that, as it is the stage 5 or 6 boss (the glorified Clamshell that shoots pinkish reflecto lasers)), I see it, an ugly mass of things.

Instictually, I throw my force at it to damage it. . .whilst shooting at it.

needless to say, after the shit hit the fan and the HUD got damaged, I was frantically pressing the pause button to slow things down so I could get a grasp of the patterns (yeah I suck, but it's R-type. . .intuition and reflexes don't mean shit here).

After I figure out the simple manuver from up to down, I just shot mini charges at it for almost an hour straight. Then after I missed my shot window twice, I notice that the power meter continued to grow, ever so slowly. Then I just waited for a max charge and killed the boss. headbanged the the Blue-Man-Group.


It was nice in retrospect, and the alternate/hidden stages were cool. But I find myself thankfull the series is over.

[SteevTee]

I love the R-Type series, and in the defence of Final, the memorisation factor (which, it seems a lot of people don't like all that much) has been reduced somewhat.

As far as the size of the hit box goes, what's wrong with it being pretty much the full size of the ship, at least you know the exact distance you can be from a bullet. The problem I found with G V was, especially on the green blobs stage (with all the glow on them) you could never be 100% sure if you were going to make it between them.

Another thing in G V which is annoying, is the respawn option (which admittedly can be switched to the checkpoint mode). If you die in, say the asteroid boss bit, you're pretty much screwed, perhaps a few powerups could be spewed from your ship upon death, to give you a bit of a chance.

Or maybe I am crap at Gradius V (I still love it too, though).

...R-Type is slow, plodding, and memorization heavy; don't waste your time with its archaic design. . .

I was livid when I read that. Ok, they are not the fastest of games, but to say they are archaic is daft. Just think of the inovations in the series, which although some may have not been original, certainly perfected their usage.

Phew, sorry if I ranted.

[snap monkey]

Another thing in G V which is annoying, is the respawn option (which admittedly can be switched to the checkpoint mode). If you die in, say the asteroid boss bit, you're pretty much screwed, perhaps a few powerups could be spewed from your ship upon death, to give you a bit of a chance.

After you die, you still have a chance to recover all your options while they're still on screen. This was one of the best changes in Gradius V. It makes recovery from death much more manageable than others in the series, in my opinion.