Good shmups you don't enjoy.

[R-Gray 1]

Dimahoo

but i played it just one day.

[Pretas]

Dimahoo is one of Raizing's best and much more accessible if you play for a 1CC instead of score.

[Captain]

Can we agree to stop posting about games where gameplay style affects how you enjoy it?

And maybe make a separate thread for that?

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

No, we can't agree on anything here. You should know that by now.

[Squire Grooktook]

Hellsinker
Raiden series (except Fighters).

[Bananamatic]

Einhander

[monouchi]

Silvergun and Ikaruga....

[Zaarock]

Ikaruga and Psyvariar for me.

Largely because I get frustrated at how difficult decent scoring routes are to pull off yet I keep trying to do them in the early stages. Difficulty in scoring should be a good thing, means there is much to learn.

Going to give Ikaruga another try once the steam port comes out. It certainly seems to do chaining as a scoring system better than RSG where nearly optimal chains can be learned very easily (excluding the final stage)

[Pteriforever]

Aero Chimera, Ketsui, Ospraid, DDC, Hellsinker, Laserreimu, CRS, and a bunch of others I forget.

[gs68]

Gradius 1 on NES isn't bad--the porting team did what they could given the limits of the NES--but I'm too spoiled by the AC version to care about it.

[Plasmo]

Futari: I can see the awesomeness behind the curtain full of trainwreck, but I'm not bothered to uncover it anytime soon.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Futari: I can see the awesomeness behind the curtain full of trainwreck

wut

[Pretas]

I see what Plasmo is getting at. Futari's scoring system revolves around completely arbitrary elements, but it still has great stages/bosses and high production values.

[SuperSoaker360]

Ikaruga.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I see what Plasmo is getting at. Futari's scoring system revolves around completely arbitrary elements, but it still has great stages/bosses and high production values.

He wasn't really specific on what he was complaining about. All shmups have arbitrary elements in their scoring, honestly. I don't know if arbitrariness really defines whether or not it's fun, but Futari certainly isn't a 'trainwreck' by any means even if you're not into it. 1.5 Maniac scoring is probably the iffiest of any of the modes in 1.5 or BL, the changes in BL make its Maniac mode much more enjoyable.

[Skykid]

Cyvern
Air Gallet
Deathsmiles - would like it more if it's scoring system wasn't the stupidest bag of fuck and it was less boringly long-winded.
Ikaruga - don't hate it, just can't love it.
Axelay, although I'd argue it's not that great a game, the 3D stages suck.

BL make its Maniac mode much more enjoyable

Was under the impression FBL's maniac mode was the only one universally considered a write-off?

And can we get some music that isn't terrible?

I like stage 2+5 song in DOJ a lot.

Drum n' bass boss themes ftw.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

1.5 Maniac's scoring is annoying because it's impossible to keep the chaining bar active reliably since it only fills up on actual kills (as far as I can tell). Black Label Maniac is a lot less irritating if you're trying to get your counter maxed and ready to cash in, as simply using the rapid shot on enemies will max it out, so it's much easier to refill it as necessary without having to chain kills together with DDP-like precision in order to get high value amber.

Maybe people prefer 1.5 Maniac scoring for some reason, I don't know, as far as I can tell BL's is more natural and less frustrating.

[Skykid]

All of FBL is less frustrating. It's still inferior to 1.5 tho.

[Formless God]

Anything in the Seihou series. Too much speed difference between your ship and enemy bullets.
PCB - The design job feels hacky. "Hey let's make unfocusing a major part of score play, and to compensate for that just chop the speed and hitboxes of everything by half."
Shikigami no Shiro - The whole thing feels slow.
DFK - Game doesn't really start until Stage 5.
Crimzon Clover - Every year I'd play this for 10 sessions straight then don't touch it again until the following year. Aside from bullet speed (no sane person would mix fast and slow bullets in the same attack) and hitbox issues, I remember nearly every little detail of the game despite trying my hardest not to and it really kills my urge to play it.
Astebreed - Still can't shake that euroshmup feeling off. Not sure if this is a "good shmup" though considering its complete absence from the Hi Score and Strategy sections.

Can we agree to stop posting about games where gameplay style affects how you enjoy it?

What else is supposed to affect how one enjoys a shooting game then?

[XoPachi]

Seeing a lot of Treasure and Raizing here. Though I agree with Radiant Silvergun actually. Pretty stiff and felt needlessly complex. Love Karaid, but...what the fuck is with scoring?

I love most Cave shooters, but I'm REALLY getting sick of them putting in so many overbearing effects. I can see everything clearly in DOJ and other similar games, but Mushi Futa (lol futa)? Gets hard at times to see what I'm doing...

Oh I hate Deathsmiles too. Don't like the front to back style. And fuck lolis.

[Blackbird]

I can't get into Gradius. I'm really clumsy, so games that punish death extremely harshly (with the loss of all powerups) don't mesh with me well.

[chempop]

RAIDEN FIGHTER SERIES

[ACSeraph]

Radiant Silvergun, Espgaluda II, DFK, most Yagawa stuff that I've played.

Also pretty much anything where suiciding is necessary for survival strategy.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

I like Espgaluda 2 but only if I pretty much completely ignore the deep bullet respawn scoring system. I can never tell where the hell they are going to respawn at and it always feels like it takes you out of the game into another one aside from doing it on stage bosses just before they blow a bracket. I'm always surprised to see it get ranked so high in the Cave catalog. Makes me feel like I'm missing something.

[XoPachi]

I can't get into Gradius. I'm really clumsy, so games that punish death extremely harshly (with the loss of all powerups) don't mesh with me well.

Does that include the other "ius"? Darius? 'w`

[cfx]

.

[Jeneki]

Color chaining is one of the few scoring mechanics that outright repulses me.

[ACSeraph]

Color chaining is one of the few scoring mechanics that outright repulses me.

I hate chaining in general, but it won't ruin the game for me. DDP is pretty great when you just ignore the scoring.

I enjoy my shmups for survival first and scoring second. I'll only go into scoring if the system is entertaining enough to warrant it. But I might still love the game even if I don't go that far in depth.

[Skykid]

I like Espgaluda 2 but only if I pretty much completely ignore the deep bullet respawn scoring system. I can never tell where the hell they are going to respawn at and it always feels like it takes you out of the game into another one aside from doing it on stage bosses just before they blow a bracket. I'm always surprised to see it get ranked so high in the Cave catalog. Makes me feel like I'm missing something.

That's the sex of it.

Once you figure out how to manipulate the Zesshikai it's all gold (literally). You just find certain spots where it's executable (not too many a stage) and then start leading the bullets around the screen, zipping out of harms way just as you pop another enemy and the bullets go into the momentary harmless respawning phase. The most important thing is not letting your gems/gold timeout while you're in the middle of an incoming swarm: you want to be leading them somewhere you're not, and then switch back out of Zesshikai.

Leaving the mode safely is much harder than getting into it, I find - but all those beautiful x10000s!

[Blinge]

Radiant Silvergun, Ikaruga, DDP DOJ, Ketsui, Battle Garegga

Across the channel I am shedding a tear for you, sir.

Don't feel bad about it. Yagawa admitted outright in an interview that Garegga, etc.'s rank mechanics were a cold-hearted ploy to increase arcade revenues.

Oh man.. I didn't know that =[
Part of me has always wanted to hold Garegga up like some holy grail masterpiece and spend months working at it now and then before I can finally get that 1cc..

for me i guess it's Gradius 1, and the better Psikyo games.
Oh and Rayforce too, just couldn't seem to improve.