the first person shooter game thread (eew fps)

[Edmond Dantes]

I gotta admit... I wouldn't know how to tell a good map from a bad map, unless its something like "The Sky May Be" which is just straight-up fucked up.

[lilmanjs]

The only version of Rott to play is the laserdisc shareware version. Its like they packed all their awesome levels into that version and then just started throwing in maps of any kind into the full version. Not to say the full version is horrible, but nowhere near as good as the laserdisc shareware version, which has a few extra levels added in. Also of note, when I mention SDL mods for wolf3d, I forgot to mention that the SDL version of the source code makes mods made with it useable on modern OSes. 64-bit or otherwise. That's really the main reason it was ported to SDL.

[Ed Oscuro]

Laserdisc version? I did play a shareware demo version years ago, but are you saying that there are multiple ones?

Just had a random thought here: The unnecessary and rather clumsy "race" level is an idea that would get revisited for one of the multiplayer levels (I forget which expansion it was in, or if it was the original) where the characters automatically run around the track. I wonder if there's any connection (there might be even if the RotT level just inspired a second-party mod maker to run with it).

[Edmond Dantes]

Well, I have yet to complete either version (I'm going through the Hunt Begins before I hit Dark War).

I think "Laserdisc" was just a shareware publisher. I doubt they have any levels that aren't in the full version (which includes the shareware levels).

Oh, and I got the Id Anthology today. Finally, I get to get in on the Spear of Destiny love! ^__^

Actually, I checked out some of the other games on the anthology, and... most of them are interesting, at the very least. Very nearly got addicted to Catacombs 3D despite the antiquainted controls (you have to use Right-shift to run, and can't remap it). For some reason this one includes a Pong minigame, just like the later Commander Keen titles. Is this how wizards spend their spare time?

There's even a shmup, Slordax. It's primitive compared to games like Gradius (there's only one kind of upgrade and it's a spread-shot) and it felt a little on the easy side, but... I enjoyed it.

But no, this compilation doesn't include the two FormGen mission disks for Spear. Then again I don't need more Wolf3D until I beat what I have...

[BIL]

But no, this compilation doesn't include the two FormGen mission disks for Spear. Then again I don't need more Wolf3D until I beat what I have...

They're shit in comparison to id's Wolf3D and SOD. Hope you really enjoy humping every single wall texture in a stage until you find the random lucky panel. You actually have to do that to proceed at points.

Might be worth a look just to see the searingly tacky pixel art, though - reminded me of how lovely id's still is.

[Ed Oscuro]

I think "Laserdisc" was just a shareware publisher.

I assume the same as well, but I want to hear more from the source!

Oh, and I got the Id Anthology today. Finally, I get to get in on the Spear of Destiny love! ^__^

Actually, I checked out some of the other games on the anthology, and... most of them are interesting, at the very least. Very nearly got addicted to Catacombs 3D despite the antiquainted controls (you have to use Right-shift to run, and can't remap it).

Speaking of lovely pizzle arts, Catacomb 3D has some nice stuff.

I did not know this iD anthology was a thing...I'll go look around for one.

[Edmond Dantes]

If you want, here's the Amazon.com listing for it.

Mine was like $50 and came with the four discs in a book-like case with an actual booklet at the center. The booklet is the history of Id Software (told as though its a Lovecraft story--yes, it's rather amusing that way) interspersed with pictures of various sorts, such as dev photos, magazine clippings, and sometimes a news article you can't read because someone wrote KILL KILL KILL all over it.

The only slight bummer is that some of the games can be gotten cheaper elsewhere, and sometimes I feel like it could be more complete. For example it includes Dangerous Dave in the Haunted Mansion, but not the original Dangerous Dave, or any of the sequels. I can forgive this since the original is freeware now and the later DD games weren't made by Romero, but it would've been nice. And for some reason the version of Commander Keen: Aliens Ate My Babysitter (Keen 6) is CGA while the rest are EGA, but... well, I found a way to get around this. That's all I'm saying!

But other than that, so far I'm happy with it.

[drauch]

Huh. Wasn't aware of the ID Anthology as well. I want it just for that Icon of Sin case!

[Some-Mist]

.

[lilmanjs]

Laserdisc version? I did play a shareware demo version years ago, but are you saying that there are multiple ones?

Just had a random thought here: The unnecessary and rather clumsy "race" level is an idea that would get revisited for one of the multiplayer levels (I forget which expansion it was in, or if it was the original) where the characters automatically run around the track. I wonder if there's any connection (there might be even if the RotT level just inspired a second-party mod maker to run with it).

You can get the Laserdisc or rather Lasersoft version of the shareware episode for free these days, but I managed a few years back to buy a copy used, and even the person who sold it had stuck in a piece of paper with the cheat codes.
Link:http://www.3drealms.com/rott/
Just go to the other files from Apogee section and you'll easily see it. 6 added levels are included, 3 regular, and 3 for multiplayer.

[BIL]

I am ROVIN' BDOOM019's adjusted melee combat. Actually a reason to use "Smash Mode" in Berserk now. Addicted to punching the fuck out of pinkies, imps and Cacos. Great Rocky-esque "crate of watermelons + concrete @ terminal velocity" sound effects. The brutal left hook that finishes the three hit combo has significantly greater reach than the usual DOOM fist, and will whap multiple enemies in its path - finally actually feels like DOOMguy's taking a murderous swing at something's face. Timing's a snap, the delay before the second hit is easy to master and you can buffer infinitely for the third. It's a good idea to whiff the first two, then close in and strike with the vicious third. It'll connect from a safer distance and will usually blow away or stun the target to boot. WTF, this is reminding me of Shatterhand of all things.



You are already unidentifiable without DNA testing!

[Ed Oscuro]

Interesting stuff, folks, keep it coming.

I had a little epiphany about V-SYNC in old games, and tried it for the Stronghold mod in ZDOOM. Eliminating my visual nemesis (which really looks like waves going down the screen, annoying as heck - and that's in addition to screen tear) is interesting. It's also interesting to see solid images moving back and forth, rather than the cut-up strips I've gotten used to.

No mushy mouse movement detected. I'm going to try this in more games. Hopefully AMD gets out some proper adaptive VSYNC control for newer Catalyst drivers. I'd also like to figure out how to get VSYNC on the desktop, as there are many cases where it could be useful (VSYNC seems to repair not only tear for me, but also the wavy effect mentioned earlier shows up even in still images, especially solid gray).

I read an interesting thread on some DOOM port's forum about viewport interpolation possibly causing lag. Unfortunately there's not a lot of quantitative data available to go off of and I also think that it should be possible to hack framerates so that there wouldn't need to be any interpolation if you have a fixed framerate (swapping i.e. 60Hz for the classic 35Hz).

[BIL]

Haha, BDOOM actually changes the punch sfx after Berserk is enabled. "wup wup" becomes "WHOOM WHOOM." Only noticed because the audio is useful for timing the combo - I wonder if this was present in older versions. Also, with certain angling, it's possible to blast enemies into the air and have them splatter upon reacquaintance with the ground. Same principle behind booting the fuckers off high ledges or down flights of stairs.

I'm finding the new hook quite interesting, as it does some things to improve the low opinion I usually have of DOOM engine melee combat. It swings out considerably in front of the player, with three sequential points of contact. The devastating direct hit and its obscenely gratifying *CRUNCH* is actually each hit detonating simultaneously. Besides potentially hitting multiple targets, this arc and reach also allow finessed glancing blows while circle-strafing a target. Much more convincing and tactile sense of lashing out. I hate how vanilla DOOM's fist is like half-inch punching stuff with a toothpick.

Given further range, the ability to shield and maybe a selection of sweep/overhead/stab, this approach would work great with a really nice broadsword. Maybe a potential BHexen would be more interesting than I'd thought.

[Edmond Dantes]

Speaking of Doom, I figure this is the topic to ask:

Does Doom 3: BFG Edition have any DRM I should be worried about? (I'm thinking I might pick up a console edition... if I pick up the respective console)

Is there any other reason I might prefer the original Doom 3 over the BFG Edition?

Admittedly I played Doom 3 back when it was new and I remember not liking it, but... I didn't get to play it under optimal conditions (friend's PC, and he insisted I play with the lights out to "make it scarier" but in fact I can't do that because it irritates my eyes, not to mention not being able to see the keyboard is no fun). So in your opinion, Doom 3 as a whole: Worth playing, or is it really shit like I remember?

[Some-Mist]

I'm not sure of the difference, but I enjoyed Doom 3 when it released. The mods supposedly make it much much better (like the flashlight mod).

[BIL]

Doom 3 is Quake II: Can't See Shit Edition. Same solid but rather limited action, really nothing special at any point. Stupid lategame weapon balance makes big enemies a welcome source of HP. As a horror game, its real aspiration, it's very hamstrung. The sense of an isolated facility overrun by occult terror originating from somewhere deep within is generally well done, at times excellent. Reliance on the usual RE "memoirs of the eaten" method or not, the place feels convincingly fucked. But the gabby storytelling intrudes on the horror early on and by the midpoint deluges the bed in a torrent of corn-ridden shit. Never really recovers after that! It's an ok game but nothing to go out of your way for.

[drauch]

Yep, I feel about the same. Doom 3: The Corridor. So many hallways and flashlight tag with monsters kinda grows dull after a bit. Probably wouldn't be so harsh on it if it was called anything but Doom. Fairly effective for what it's going for, but ultimately not an amazing game, by any means.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The original flashlight mechanics were the only unique thing about Doom 3 (that I found). Don't expect to learn what the game was all about without it.

[Edmond Dantes]

Doom 3: The Corridor.

Now I just feel like they missed an opportunity to give a shout-out to Corridor 7

[Jonathan Ingram]

Is there any other reason I might prefer the original Doom 3 over the BFG Edition?

There is. The BFG Edition isn't compatible with most of the existing mods, be them gameplay tweaks or graphical overhauls. Definitely get Doom 3 + Resurrection of Evil instead.

[coturnixx]

Ah, Doom 3. Kept playing that game expecting some levels made of flesh/organic tissue entirely (those textures were awesome) only to find a bland and boring hell with some rocks and little else. One of my biggest dissapointments in gaming. Still pains me to remember it, a level like that could have been glorious.

[Some-Mist]

how were you guys all disappointed? not that I play a game for graphics, but the game was a visual marvel at the time of release. surely the content wasn't that great, but I was blown away at how awesome doom 3 looked when it released. it was actually pretty scary too :O

[drauch]

surely the content wasn't that great

That's why.

And who cares how it looked when it was released? It's not impressive anymore, so it really wouldn't have much going for it at this point with that mindset. Play Rage at all? Looks amazing, but it's bland, bland, bland.

[Obiwanshinobi]

To this day I find Quake II engine-powered games impressive graphically and you can see people making tech demos for old system all the time, so it's not like old graphics are obsolete.

[drauch]

Not the point I was making. Impressive graphics don't save a bland game. We've been talking about Wolfenstein and Doom 1/II, so obviously that's not even a valid point at all in this thread.

[Some-Mist]

surely the content wasn't that great

That's why.

And who cares how it looked when it was released? It's not impressive anymore, so it really wouldn't have much going for it at this point with that mindset. Play Rage at all? Looks amazing, but it's bland, bland, bland.

other than it being a doom title, that's what piqued my interest to pick it up when it released and it was still scary as fuuuu! the "realism" at the time added to that. It was still a very enjoyable game and I personally wasn't disappointed ._.

in this day and age.. it still has the scary/horror factor, but I could see being disappointed if I played it for the first time now.

still need to check out rage.

Not the point I was making. Impressive graphics don't save a bland game. We've been talking about Wolfenstein and Doom 1/II, so obviously that's not even a valid point at all in this thread.

the discussion shifted to doom 3 and I was merely providing reasons why I wasn't disappointed and wondering why everyone else was. surely it's not the strongest title in the series, but it's still fun man..

edit: also.. Crysis is bland and it still became a hugely popular game based on it's graphical merits alone. It might not be a redeeming factor for you, but it might be for other people.

[drauch]

That last comment was directed towards Obi's comment regarding older graphics.

Funny, but I actually enjoy Crysis, not just for the graphics. By no means an amazing game, but something about sneaking up and strangling a dude and watching the life slip away from him appeals to me. Impressive graphics add to it, yes, but the world is expansive and immersive, and with multiple options on how you engage combat it remains fresh. And it plays well. That's why I dig it.

Doom 3 for me just felt very bland and tedious. The use of the flashlight and the dark corridors certainly give the player a feeling of dread and, er... doom, but it just got stale after awhile for me. It's spooky, but jump scares and flashlight tag gimmicks only last so long. And like I mentioned earlier, if it didn't carry the Doom title I probably wouldn't be so hard on it. Hard to take the frantic action out of themost evil game ever made and turn it into a laborious crawl through hours of corridors and labs.

[Some-Mist]

but it just got stale after awhile for me.

yea.. after that initial "wow, this looks sick factor", it did get a little old. It still sticks out in my mind as a standout title much like half-life 2 with how incredible that looked at the time. the graphics at the time helped make the game a more immersible experience, but yeah.. it can really only aid the game so much. there are people who can play through entire games because "it looks pretty", but I'm not really one of those people.

for the record, I actually didn't enjoy crysis at all. I just know that it gained a lot of attention because of how awesome it looked.

[drauch]

Yeah, that's with most Crytek games. Pretty heavy reliance on the graphics and dense jungle environments. The first Farcry blew me away graphically, but gameplay wise I found it lacking, and eventually even just shelved it before completing it. And initially, yeah, Doom 3 was quite impressive to me, graphically. I dunno, anymore I just find myself bored of the FPS genre after the early 2000s. I crave the lighting fast reflexes and frantic action that comes with fending off waves of enemies of the past.

[BIL]

Like I said, although the Quake II-esque action doesn't do much for me, I do enjoy the more ambient aspects of Doom 3's horror. Things like accounts of the facility's collective mental health deteriorating in the months leading up to the incident, spikes in freak industrial mishaps, and the foreshadowings of Delta Labs as the heart of madness ("Volunteer today! UAC reserves the right to reassign personnel as required."). Finally breaching Delta's improvised demon fortress felt significant, as did the ghastly first use of the teleporter equipment behind the whole mess.

Problem is the writing putting a generic human face and motivation on all that nice inexplicable terror/horror. I don't care about Dr. Wiley, or starring in the ainchent propehcy of good demons pwnin bad demonz. But from the midpoint the writers won't STFU about either, to the bitter end. Game's narrative should've been: Reckless humans made a hole in space and nightmarish shit is pouring out - plug it up plz.

I enjoy replaying it very occasionally, but it's damaged goods. Also, as absorbing as the environments can be, bespoke monster closets in such detailed surroundings don't gel at all. I wish my house had pressure plate-triggered secret alcoves, I'd fill them with booze and snacks for an occasional scary treat.