is STGT happening?

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DJ Incompetent
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by DJ Incompetent »

heisenbergman wrote:What would be the most difficult parts of running one?

From my point of view, there would just be the matter of what game to play for the week, then people submit their high scores, then all the high scores are ranked into an ordered list.
The most deceptively hard part is choosing the games to play. You should definitely have a veteran player for consulting to bounce ideas off or divide the researching with. If an issue is discovered after a game announcement, the whole play schedule gets fucked up and you get to go into a panic finding a replacement game. A miscalculated ranking score can always be corrected later. Picking the wrong game is a dangerous thing you do not wanna mess up.

The first issue is potential infinite milking scoring exploits; checking all high score and strategy threads looking for indicators the game is broke. These are not discussed often, so you will need to credit feed a game yourself and evaluate every section. Every boss, midboss, or section where killing an enemy is required to proceed, you must evaluate, 1. Can you earn points during the fight without damaging the boss? 2. If yes, does this section time-out?

Second issue is setting the autofire rate. In most cases, the answer is '4', but somebody should test the game like this anyway in later stages. Shutting autofire rate off or below the rate of tapping is stupid, because carpaltunnel. But setting the rate too high makes it possible to end up in Darius Gaiden situations where the game becomes way too easy, and comparing score becomes a battle of one-life-clears to make the most out of an end-of-game remaining ships bonus.

Third issue is ports. Console/PC ports are often not 100% of the PCB, but you gotta determine through forum threads how close to 100% the port is and still legit enough to use. Searching Hi-Score threads usually does this research for you, provided you see separate tables for port and PCB/MAME. To learn more, you'll probably have to creatively search Shmups Chat and Strategy for port comparisons and wade through a shitload of false positive threads.

And finally, stick with MAME, advise against PC games. MAME is used because of the highest chances of participation. PC games, no matter how old, how widely available, always will have something that will omit a group to play.

Oh yeah, CV1000 is still a divided topic, so ya may wanna avoid those Cave games.

If running an actual STGT is still on the table, you should seek out user Davey, who should have a tool for calculating player/team scores in the original way.

If you find yourself not confident in game selecting, setting up a community voting period usually solves this problem, at the expense of inviting the possibility of allowing pre-competition practice.
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heisenbergman
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by heisenbergman »

re: game choice --- I would strongly recommend voting. Initial thread could be a voting thread where rules and guidelines could also be discussed and then the game threads after that can double as a voting thread for the succeeding week.

How I'd suggest it is that the top scorer for the week nominates five (5) games and then everyone votes via poll on which game among the five to play. The caveat is that once you've taken your turn nominating games, you can't nominate again until there's still someone on the leaderboard who hasn't taken a turn nominating even if you consistently top the rankings.

I would think that this should at least mitigate the risk of milking scoring exploits to a certain degree assuming that the community is made aware enough not to vote for particular games with known exploits.

To be perfectly honest, I'm all for clearly defined rules and strict implementation of guidelines, but I'd like to think that at the end of the day, things like this are setup for people to have fun and for friendly competition. I hope issues that you've mentioned don't get in the way of that, even if they would tend to pop up.
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heisenbergman
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by heisenbergman »

Is one of the concerns above the reason why popular games like Batsugun & Gunbird 2 haven't had STGTs yet (as far as I could tell)?
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DJ Incompetent
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by DJ Incompetent »

Not necessarily. 36 titles over the years isn't everything. I'd imagine both have been included in voting categories in week voting themes. You should seek those week theme voting threads out and see if people had anything to say.

Hints:
Batsugun (Special) may or may not require getting to loop 3-4 to compete.
Gunbird 2 may have drama about Dreamcast exclusive Morrigan character.
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shmuppyLove
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by shmuppyLove »

Batsugun also has those wacky "hidden" scoring tricks.
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by trap15 »

Batsugun scoring is pants-on-head retarded. Don't make people play that for score.

Now, Bee Storm. That's a tournament level game.
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by Chaos Phoenixma »

most of Batsugun's score comes from the stage 4 boss. If it's Special version, you have to milk that crap 4 times. Just no.
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Jaimers
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by Jaimers »

If Batsugun Special gets chosen then the top 20 is going to be nothing but counterstops.
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by IseeThings »

trap15 wrote:Batsugun scoring is pants-on-head retarded. Don't make people play that for score.

Now, Bee Storm. That's a tournament level game.
Unfortunately Bee Storm has recording issues in MAME.. might be it depends on the RTC for something random, and it isn't quite deterministic.

There are also some drivers (like BRapBoys) that won't record properly for reasons I can't comprehend (not NVRAM etc. or uninitialized variables that I can see) so it could also be that although other PGM based games do record just fine..

Just thought it best to throw in that as a word of warning for anybody considering Bee Storm in a tournament where MAME / inps might be used.
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Icarus
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by Icarus »

trap15 wrote:Batsugun scoring is pants-on-head retarded. Don't make people play that for score.
Now, Bee Storm. That's a tournament level game.
Don't listen to the man that streams kusoge for purely masochistic entertainment value. :V
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by Seppo Hovi »

Pick SoEW.
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nZero
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by nZero »

Seppo Hovi wrote:Pick SoEW.
SoEW would be a good pick for STGT, because it can be reversed to Sympony of Endless Whining.
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by Zengeku3 »

nZero wrote:Sympony
Brony confirmed.
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Despatche
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by Despatche »

tsoew lunatic would actually be hilarious to see. problem is pc-98 emulation is kinda weird, i'm still not sure what kind of settings i'm supposed to have for any of the emulators. none of it is very clear...

for the love of god please don't ever put batsugun in any non-retarded tourney

and please don't be mame only unless we're gonna have a separate stgt for non-mame stuff, because these supposed groups really can just deal with it
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by Zengeku3 »

Despatche wrote:because these supposed groups really can just deal with it
seconded.
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wolfman24
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by wolfman24 »

I was thinking of hosting another contest in june or july I could bring STGT back or do something close to it if you guys want.
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by ACSeraph »

You've been doing a good job so far organizing the current tournament, so I would be in support of it. However it would need to be hosted here at shmups and not the other site. Also I suggest partnering up with someone who is very familiar with the genre and the types of games and rule sets that get played in STGT.
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Despatche
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by Despatche »

i'm liking your tourney so far. usually stgt is in the fall (august/september), but i personally don't mind when it happens.

all i ask is for you to, please, not make it mame-only; "pirating" doujins is the exact same thing as "pirating" console games is the exact same thing as "pirating" arcade games, there's simply no argument. my comp's kinda old, so i can be a pretty great benchmark of "what runs"... as an example, touhou 6/7/8 worked fine last i checked.

and please ignore the above, because "someone who is familiar with the genre" tends to not actually be familiar with the genre, and because any type of game can and does get played in stgt (one of these days we need to get og tempest in there). the only people i would dare recommend for any such "partnership" are people like me and saucykobold and ghegs etc, mostly because stgt is kinda dead and we're probably the only ones around anymore.
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wolfman24
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by wolfman24 »

ACSeraph wrote:You've been doing a good job so far organizing the current tournament, so I would be in support of it. However it would need to be hosted here at shmups and not the other site. Also I suggest partnering up with someone who is very familiar with the genre and the types of games and rule sets that get played in STGT.
yeah I was going to only post the thread here thanks for the praise on current contest, I was thinking for the games for the contest people can nominate 5 games or so.
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wolfman24
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by wolfman24 »

Despatche wrote:i'm liking your tourney so far. usually stgt is in the fall (august/september), but i personally don't mind when it happens.

all i ask is for you to, please, not make it mame-only; "pirating" doujins is the exact same thing as "pirating" console games is the exact same thing as "pirating" arcade games, there's simply no argument. my comp's kinda old, so i can be a pretty great benchmark of "what runs"... as an example, touhou 6/7/8 worked fine last i checked.

and please ignore the above, because "someone who is familiar with the genre" tends to not actually be familiar with the genre, and because any type of game can and does get played in stgt (one of these days we need to get og tempest in there). the only people i would dare recommend for any such "partnership" are people like me and saucykobold and ghegs etc, mostly because stgt is kinda dead and we're probably the only ones around anymore.
lol I will be honest I am not really familiar with genre I played all the games that is in this contest but I didn't pick them
reason I am picking june to july is cause I might host a contest in September to November
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by ebarrett »

One of the distinguishing features of STGT compared to the myriad of tournaments that pop up on the forum is that even at its worst STGT always looked like an actual event instead of just an ego trip for the organizers. I will not hold knowing next to nothing about the genre against wolfman, though - I did play in STGT'11, and I'm pretty sure whomever was in charge of picking the games didn't know what they were doing back then either.
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by wolfman24 »

yeah that is what I like about STGT when I played back in 2012 there was about 250 players and over 40 teams, biggest contest I ever played in and I was looking forward to last year one but it never happened. I would have hosted a contest like it then but was busy with a lot of stuff and was in the middle of hosting a contest(that I should have put more thought in lol)
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by trap15 »

I was intending to run an STGT a month or two after your current event finished. I would prefer if they didn't have colliding dates.
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by wolfman24 »

trap15 wrote:I was intending to run an STGT a month or two after your current event finished. I would prefer if they didn't have colliding dates.
we could do that then I was only considering running it cause I though no one was going to host it. is it going to be like stgt 12?
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by chum »

I would love another STGT this year, with the proper format like teams
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by trap15 »

Yes, I intend to have teams this year.
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by ACSeraph »

trap15 wrote:Yes, I intend to have teams this year.
I'm getting hype for this :D

Can you tell us how many members per team? Might need to start recruiting now.
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by Softdrink 117 »

>trap15
>STGT
>teams

I am excited to see where this goes.
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by trap15 »

I'm thinking 3 people per team, 2 required entrants per week. Not decided yet, but I know I want to keep the teams relatively small.

I'll field suggestions/opinions on team sizes as long as they have some rationale behind them. Also trying to come up with a weird score mechanic like I usually do :lol:
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Re: is STGT happening?

Post by ACSeraph »

trap15 wrote:I'm thinking 3 people per team, 2 required entrants per week. Not decided yet, but I know I want to keep the teams relatively small.

I'll field suggestions/opinions on team sizes as long as they have some rationale behind them. Also trying to come up with a weird score mechanic like I usually do :lol:
Cool, 3 works for me, I agree smaller is probably better.

I really enjoyed the Get Bonus! from your last competition. You could probably expand it into both score related and non-score related conditions even. For example you could have a Get Bonus! for playing auto-off or using an unusually weak ship/character, or a Get Bonus! for clearing the first loop.
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