Framemeister Transition Screen change.

[EmperorZelos]

Quick question, I do have an US PS2 to play chrono cross on it and a few other import games, the mini seems to stop or something ebcause I see on the TV the insignal changes as it displays no audio before audio and the screen is black, I know those areas are not meant to have it but they are transition parts where it does occure, in Symphony of the night it never occures and all other consoles work fine, what could be the culprit?

I know it isn't a sync issue, I got a strike that is exteranlly powered, it works on all consoles, I even for safety measures plugged the PS2 directly into the Framemeister, still the same, symphony of the night gets no issues, rayman on a PAL PS2 works fine

[eightbitminiboss]

Quick question, I do have an US PS2 to play chrono cross on it and a few other import games, the mini seems to stop or something ebcause I see on the TV the insignal changes as it displays no audio before audio and the screen is black, I know those areas are not meant to have it but they are transition parts where it does occure, in Symphony of the night it never occures and all other consoles work fine, what could be the culprit?

I know it isn't a sync issue, I got a strike that is exteranlly powered, it works on all consoles, I even for safety measures plugged the PS2 directly into the Framemeister, still the same, symphony of the night gets no issues, rayman on a PAL PS2 works fine

Most likely the transitions are outputting at a different resolution than the actual game. This will cause the blackouts. This also happens on some N64 games that use the Expansion Pak like Resident Evil 2 or Majora's Mask. Unfortunately the Mini doesn't mitigate the resolution changes and that's why you see those blackouts since it's reacquiring the video signal. No fix for this unfortunately.

[EmperorZelos]

Most likely the transitions are outputting at a different resolution than the actual game. This will cause the blackouts. This also happens on some N64 games that use the Expansion Pak like Resident Evil 2 or Majora's Mask. Unfortunately the Mini doesn't mitigate the resolution changes and that's why you see those blackouts since it's reacquiring the video signal. No fix for this unfortunately.

Nothing at all? Why would it be changing resolution?

[Fudoh]

some games change between 240p for Gameplay and 480i for menus or cutscenes. If this happens the Mini needs up to 10 seconds to resync to the signal and reiniate a handshake with the display. Eventually the picture should come back though. When I read your problem I thought you're losing the picture completely and it doesn't came back ?!

[mickcris]

Most likely the transitions are outputting at a different resolution than the actual game. This will cause the blackouts. This also happens on some N64 games that use the Expansion Pak like Resident Evil 2 or Majora's Mask. Unfortunately the Mini doesn't mitigate the resolution changes and that's why you see those blackouts since it's reacquiring the video signal. No fix for this unfortunately.

Nothing at all? Why would it be changing resolution?

The N64 games that do it had the cut scenes at a different resolution than the gameplay. I would assume that the same thing is true for the PS2.

[EmperorZelos]

some games change between 240p for Gameplay and 480i for menus or cutscenes. If this happens the Mini needs up to 10 seconds to resync to the signal and reiniate a handshake with the display. Eventually the picture should come back though. When I read your problem I thought you're losing the picture completely and it doesn't came back ?!

oh no the picture comes back, it is just blank as if it is just doing that, changing to a new signal.

is there anyway to force the PS to stay at one?

[EmperorZelos]

Most likely the transitions are outputting at a different resolution than the actual game. This will cause the blackouts. This also happens on some N64 games that use the Expansion Pak like Resident Evil 2 or Majora's Mask. Unfortunately the Mini doesn't mitigate the resolution changes and that's why you see those blackouts since it's reacquiring the video signal. No fix for this unfortunately.

Nothing at all? Why would it be changing resolution?

The N64 games that do it had the cut scenes at a different resolution than the gameplay. I would assume that the same thing is true for the PS2.

Imma go with "Dagnam it" seriously? That blows horse manure if the framemeister could react faster!

[Fudoh]

no, but after all there're not too many games which change the resolution frequently.

[EmperorZelos]

no, but after all there're not too many games which change the resolution frequently.

Bollocks, thank you all for the information, rather disappointing but it is better to know the bitter truth Thanks again!

[EmperorZelos]

I'd like to add it is indeed the switch between 480i and 240p that is the culprit, thank you all again.

[Ed Oscuro]

If it's really problematic for you, you could look into the XPC-4 which I think cuts down that switch time. It's not instantaneous there and probably not as convenient to use as the Framemeister, but them's the breaks.

[EmperorZelos]

If it's really problematic for you, you could look into the XPC-4 which I think cuts down that switch time. It's not instantaneous there and probably not as convenient to use as the Framemeister, but them's the breaks.

It is what does that device do?

[Ed Oscuro]

Look here for a good rundown. The part you are interested in:

Still the XPC-4 handles transitions from 240p to 480i (and back) fast and flawless. Contrary to the Framemeister's performance (which takes 5-10 seconds for each transition), at least this keeps games like Killer Instinct 64 playable (KI64 has 240p gameplay, but switches to 480i between the fights and for all it's menus).

I think Fudoh has mentioned here how long the delay is, in seconds, as being just one or two seconds delay. Fudoh, shouldn't that be in the review?

[juji82]

We demand a device for this resolution switch!

[akumajo]

iScan VP30 + ABT102 fix this issue

[BuckoA51]

Wait what? You're saying some of the ABT scalers have no issue with 240p->480i transitions?

[Fudoh]

the ones without 240p recognition, yes. Your Edge with an early FW should be fine as well.

[juji82]

i meant about something cheap

[akumajo]

cheap ? CRT

the only reported scaler without any issue (not even 1 sec switching) is the VP30+ABT102

we have to wait for BitBlitz too...

[juji82]

yes , i hope for bitblitz will be able to do this transition fast and easily.

[HydrogLox]

yes , i hope for bitblitz will be able to do this transition fast and easily.

How fast can you flip a DIP switch?

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 43#p912343

Right now the design only supports 240p conversion, but I've talked with Fudoh about a simple way to convert 480i to 480p, so 480i support is still a possibility. As for on the fly switching, if I do add 480i support it will be a dip switch configured mode, rather than the auto-detect needed for the situation you describe.

[juji82]

oh i didn't read on that! dip switch will be better than nothing then

[BuckoA51]

the ones without 240p recognition, yes. Your Edge with an early FW should be fine as well.

I'm on the Edge Green (my original Edge died) but I was lucky enough to grab a VP50 pro really cheap and should have it soon, but I am not sure that I can be bothered downgrading the firmware on that.

This still surprises me as even the XRGB3 in B1 chained through the Edge causes a screen blank/resync when changing from 240p to 480i.

oh i didn't read on that! dip switch will be better than nothing then

Didn't Crafty also say that if you fed in 480i you'd still get some kind of picture, even if it looked terrible? On many games that would be acceptable as long as you could basically make out the image. You only need to grab something from your 480i enabled inventory real quick, for instance.

[Fudoh]

Didn't Crafty also say that if you fed in 480i you'd still get some kind of picture

yes, should work out just like on the XPC-4, where every 15khz signal is treated as 240p.

I was lucky enough to grab a VP50 pro really cheap

good choice. You'll be surprised about what ABT removed during the step from the 50pro to the Edge.

[BuckoA51]

With the price of 1080p video processors in free fall it should soon be possible to build quite a powerful and affordable solution by chaining a Bitblitz and a 2nd hand ABT scaler together. If the Bitblitz can work with 240p and 480i mixed content then I think we'd be looking at a new benchmark with ABT+Bitblitz.

[Xyga]

XRGB-2 by itself or coupled with a VP30 has no transition issues as well.

[Ed Oscuro]

If the Bitblitz can work with 240p and 480i mixed content

Crafty has said a few times that the focus is on 240p, not 480i.

[EmperorZelos]

okey I am confused, which of the devices has the best performance? Cost is no issue

[BuckoA51]

Crafty has said a few times that the focus is on 240p, not 480i.

Yes, we know, but as long as it works with 480i enough to give a picture, even one that flickers somewhat, that will be enough for most games with this transition problem.

XRGB-2 by itself or coupled with a VP30 has no transition issues as well.

That's interesting to know. I guess there must be enough of a difference in the XRGB3's handling of interlace and progressive in B1 to cause a problem then.

okey I am confused, which of the devices has the best performance? Cost is no issue

Sounds like an XRGB2 coupled with a ABT scaler might be at the moment then.

[EmperorZelos]

Crafty has said a few times that the focus is on 240p, not 480i.

Yes, we know, but as long as it works with 480i enough to give a picture, even one that flickers somewhat, that will be enough for most games with this transition problem.

XRGB-2 by itself or coupled with a VP30 has no transition issues as well.

That's interesting to know. I guess there must be enough of a difference in the XRGB3's handling of interlace and progressive in B1 to cause a problem then.

okey I am confused, which of the devices has the best performance? Cost is no issue

Sounds like an XRGB2 coupled with a ABT scaler might be at the moment then.

I am aware of XRGB2 but where is there information about the ABT scaler? Does this thing add additional lag?