Noisy Saturn

[evil_ash_xero]

I have an old model 1 Saturn, that I hadn't played since about 98 or something. I got a Model 2 around that time, had it modded, and just sort of put the Model 1 in a box for backup.

Well, I sent it off to get it region modded, and when it got back it makes SO much noise. I didn't test it at all before I sent it off, so I can't blame anyone for it. Might just be how it was(the modder has done some very nice work for me in the past).

He recommended "try some lithium grease on the lens rail".

Can anyone give me a tutorial on how to do this? Is this something I can do without taking anything apart, or is it a bit more complex?

It loads fine, runs fine, but makes a lot of clicking noises, and it's reading noises are about 3 times louder than they should be.

[Ed Oscuro]

Just a heads-up that I haven't tried this on the Saturn and I am an amateur at this, so you will want to look for a second opinion. That said I feel fairly confident this is the right process.

First a paragraph with maybe a few good bits about grease, which I'm still trying to figure out: There have been quite a few discussions about grease recently, like this one. In that thread I link to an offer on Racketboy for FREE GREASE! that should work well. Both types have slightly different properties, but should both work well. If you wanted to read some opinions on white lithium vs. silicone greases, you could look here and here, and possibly here. I am not sure if white lithium lasts longer or if it attracts more dirt than does silicone lubricant. A commonly repeated refrain online seems to be "white lithium is good for metal-on-metal; silicone is good for plastics too." However it is not clear that the Saturn or even very many other consoles actually have grease on plastic parts. Currently I am waiting to get some of this. Be careful not to just pick up the first stuff you see in the store - many lubricants / greases are intended for different purposes and may be too thick, too runny (oils), or have additives that will fuck your shit up. I like silicone in this regard because some of it is even considered food safe (meaning that if it comes into contact with food, you won't die / get cancer). White lithium greases do appear to be reasonably well available in stores, though you might have to look a while. Silicone grease seems to be rare to find on store shelves, though you might ask at a hobby / toy store (i.e. for R.C. cars).

Grease of choice in hand, what you are going to want to do is first try to figure out, from listening, what is making the noise. Is it gears, or a sliding mechanism? (I don't know the Saturn's internals but I would guess that the spindle and/or the laser mechanism/sled traveling along the rails / worm gear might be it.) Two things to do next: First, might as well clean things when you are in there - the spindle, and if there's a rubber band around that, probably can't be removed and washed (and you don't want to mess up any ball bearing by doing this), so a carefully cleaning around its edge with a cotton swab and isopropyl alcohol should be fine. If you can safely remove any nylon gears you should note if they appear lubricated, and then wash them thoroughly. Note if there is any residual grease on metal parts, especially metal slides or worm gears the laser sled / mechanism is traveling on.

Next, take some nylon or rubber gloves and your grease (or, if you don't have gloves, you might be able to get away with using a plastic tool to push it around - maybe even a clean fine brush but I would avoid this), and carefully apply it in a thin film to the parts that were greased only. (Be careful not to get big globs or very thick layers; white lithium and silicone should not damage these low-power electronics from incidental contact but don't get things messy.) If you couldn't tell that parts were greased, then you will want to first grease just a metal part that moves / has something moving against it (again I would resist using the white lithium grease on anything which touches plastic). Try it out now. If there is still some noise then perhaps you will want to try it again.

[kamiboy]

Definitely go for the food-safe stuff as then you wont have to worry when using your saturn as a pizza plate. Hmmmm, Segata Sanshiro flavour...

[Ed Oscuro]

Food safe just means that you don't have to worry about possible carcinogens, and you should be able to use the stuff in more projects so your grease purchase goes farther.

[kamiboy]

But does lithium grease contain anything like that?

[Ed Oscuro]

No, but I gave other reasons for preferring silicone grease to lithium. Ultimately it's probably just a judgement call, and I wouldn't spend a lot of money on grease. The stuff I linked just was a few dollars a tube - not a very big tube but still enough to work on a few consoles, which is all I need for now.

[kamiboy]

An important point is also whether the grease is conductive or not. Not entirely sure, but I think I heard white lithium is.

[Ed Oscuro]

Addressed that too, elsewhere; somebody took a multimeter and shorted white lithium, said its resistance is in the megaohm range at least, and probably higher. Silicone grease should be more of the same.

Note that if you have something that sends out sparks, that's a different matter.

But of course you shouldn't be slapping grease on electrical parts anyway.

[s8n]

ive taken some photos and labeled them , in the below theres some clips on each side gently push inward and lift to remove the cover...................






next grease where labeled , i use White Lithium Grease i spray it on a spoon and then dab a Q-tip in it. Dont paint it on dab it on so you get a thick coating , also when you've greased the rails etc move the laser via the gears and grease where the laser was covering it.






things to look out for.............


- dont press too hard when trying to remove the cover as you can snap the clips

- dont touch the lens with your fingers and dont accidently get grease on the lens

- dont use a screwdriver to turn the gears as it can damage the teeth , use your finger or Q-tip

[evil_ash_xero]

Wow. Thanks. I feel a lot braver trying this out now.

[Ed Oscuro]

Not that thick on the rail though (left and right sides), looks like the sled will get stuck in a snowdrift with it piled that high. Also see that there are plenty of plastic parts, so again some kind of silicone grease looks like the right one.

[evil_ash_xero]

I ordered the White Lithium. Hopefully I chose wisely.

Is it common for Saturns to act up like that? It makes a lot of clicking sounds. It loads the games fine, and everything runs well, but it's a clicker. It also has a scraping sound, while the disc is turning. So, scraping and clicking.

[Ed Oscuro]

I can't say - did you check your discs to see that they aren't being damaged? Could be just the drive sled scraping along / other bits inside, of course. No rubber bands in this machine, hooray!

Found a thread on Assembler which covers most of the same points.

[evil_ash_xero]

Yeah, I definitely took a look at the discs. After all that racket, I was worried. They're fine.

[s8n]

with the amount of White Lithium Grease i suggested and use ive never had any problems with it and after ive done the greasing i put a game in and let it play.


with that the laser moves back and forth , quite quickly the thickish layer of grease levels out. Also i watch Luke Morse on Youtube and he adds quite a bit of grease as well and i respect his knowledge and tips.


oh yea in my second photo i show a line going to the gears , grease all of them not just one

[Ed Oscuro]

with that the laser moves back and forth , quite quickly the thickish layer of grease levels out.

This can be done by hand before turning the console on, and doing it that way lets you make sure there aren't any clumps or dry spots. Plus it just looks more professional and is less messy to clean up at the point when what you're doing is fresh in memory

The Saturn isn't a big deal probably, but some other consoles with sliding trays and high airflow are moving a lot of dust around, which the white lithium grease can attract, so not overdoing it seems like a good idea to me.

I think I should go and get some white lithium grease, but I'm going to test how well the silicone works for the sled. It won't hurt anything; at worst it'll just need replacing again someday (but so did the original white lithium grease).

[evil_ash_xero]

OK, just did this.

The clicking is gone, and the scraping noise is WAY better.

Only question is...my spindle is definitely lower than my Model 2's spindle. I tried to raise it a bit, but I was a little nervous about doing so. It didn't seem to make it rise.
Is this normal?

Also, is the model 1 louder than the model 2?

But it's way better now.

EDIT: After watching this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6osvS2qfFfk I realize that my spindle is definitely not as high as he is saying it should be. I'm a little worried about pulling it up though. Anyone have experience with this?

Also what part of the spindle am I supposed to be pulling up? The black plastic part, or the metal rod? The thing isn't budging.

[s8n]

The clicking is gone, and the scraping noise is WAY better.

thats great news ive been wondering how you were going..............

EDIT: After watching this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6osvS2qfFfk I realize that my spindle is definitely not as high as he is saying it should be. I'm a little worried about pulling it up though. Anyone have experience with this?.

ive never done it before but in the below video is a guy working on a Black Model 1 , he does multiple things in the video one being raising the spindle.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgj9feqR ... F5DE72C431

Also what part of the spindle am I supposed to be pulling up? The black plastic part, or the metal rod? The thing isn't budging

i believe the black plastic part , i have PS1 and Dreamcast backup spindles and the metal rod isnt attached i have just the spindle. Also in the Youtube video i linked to the guy uses quite alot of force to get it to raise a bit.

[gray117]

ergh - afraid it might indeed be your spindle being a bit low and your disk touching something - it maybe not that the face/surface is getting scratched but maybe just a slight wobble/edge scrap - if the whole face was getting scratched it would make a lot more noise

I think I remember taking apart a pal model 1 for giggles and for some reason the spindle never seemed as high as it should be - first off I ghetto fixed/tested; putting in 2 (I think) thin tight fitting rings of card [disk could still click in] and the click/scrap stopped - replaced that with a single tidier bit of thin plastic/soft plastic to tidy it up later...

... but... yeah I would beware your spindle is a probably a bit low and the disk maybe getting clipped - test it with a spare/shitting music cd or something, not a nice game

... like you I couldn't really see a distinct reason for it - just that it seemed to be sitting lower - perhaps it was more the casing sitting higher somehow than the assembly lower? ... Either way, seemed like the spacer was easier/better fix than trying to bend/force anything and risk taking it completely out of alignment.

[evil_ash_xero]

I'm sending it out to one of my modders. He'll see what the deal is.

The spindle is low. It's a good bit lower than my Model 2s. It's lower than the plastic shell that fits around it. So, yeah...not good.

[Skykid]

Semi related: I have a pc engine cd-rom 2 unit with a gear that likes to freeze up. This is a known issue apparently. Normally I leave the thing partially unscrewed so I can get inside when I need to use it. If I manually free the gear with a little pressure, the unit will behave all day long until powered off and left overnight. Next usage requires the same routine.

Does anyone know if greasing either the axle, the cog, or both in the manner shown here will have a permanent effect. I assume it's the axle freezing, but it's the gear I need to give a motivational push to.

Thanks for the input.

[gray117]

Perhaps; I think it's more likely to be wear and tear on the cogs themselves; pretty sure replacements can still be gotten [enthusiast made]. There's a series of neat videos I saw...

First, mostly about removing old and adding new grease - implied short term fix:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sx1BBnphK8

Second, second about replace gears - implied better long term fix:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJqPUAHbA9g


^ So yeah, I didn't remember it, but there's a fair bit of possible grease cause/solution too.

[Ed Oscuro]

For what it's worth, Hewlett Packard released a statement that lubrication of at least one of its printer types was "not recommended" and that part replacement usually was done instead (I have to paraphrase because I haven't relocated it; also, I can't guarantee that this applies here or that it is even still in force). Perhaps there have even been some improvements to available plastics that will allow better stability over time. Acetal reportedly can make a better and slicker ("lubricous") gear than nylon, too.

For grease, a couple obvious things: First, find a grease appropriate for plastic. If you have "white lithium" or some petroleum based grease, or some kind of grease which has specific other purposes, that should be replaced. Some "greases" and oils aren't really meant for long-term lubrication, either. Finally, I suspect that a lot of the grease people talk about getting at the auto parts store is simply too hard for use in small precision parts, especially plastics.

February is Lubrication Month!