NESRGB board available now

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Jeppen
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Jeppen »

I like seeing how people did things, so here's my installation contribution.

It's not the most beautiful nor politically correct, solders are not professionally done, but it works and looks nice from the outside at least haha.
RGB connector got a bit too much glue on it and by the palette switch i used a too large drill in the beginning, so yeah that kind a look like poo, but's it's in the back so i'll live.

Oh yes and of course the mandatory blue power LED is in :)

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Zets13
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Zets13 »

ApolloBoy wrote:Just tested the 1.3 software and it works great! So far I have yet to encounter any kind of glitch.
Glad to hear it. Really hoping that my USB Blaster will arrive soon so I can reprogram it and look for any glitches in the games that I have.
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CkRtech
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by CkRtech »

Hmm. I used really thin, high gauge kynar (I think. I've had it awhile) wiring for the video/audio, and I am regretting that decision. I think I may use beefier stuff inside like I did for the voltage regulator, although maybe not *that* thick.

What internal wiring do you guys like to use?
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

CkRtech wrote:Hmm. I used really thin, high gauge kynar (I think. I've had it awhile) wiring for the video/audio, and I am regretting that decision.
I never use Kynar wire for anything audio/video related, it's way too thin and fragile for stuff like that. I use 28 AWG wire for pretty much everything I do, including the NESRGB mods I did for myself and Sparky.
eightbitminiboss
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by eightbitminiboss »

I'm using 22 AWG solid core myself.
Jeppen
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Jeppen »

Hmm.. though my screen flickers a little, especially visable in Mega Man 2 when you press start to select another weapon, can see a clear flickering there.
Any idea why it does that?

I've tried with the original NES-PAL-002 AC adapter and a not so cheap DC adapter (9V 1,5 amps), identical result.


Could a thing like this be caused by chagning to a blue power LED not being very optimal, i kinda just bought one based on color and brightness and stuck it in there. :x
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CkRtech
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by CkRtech »

Interesting. I am due to order some supplies from Jameco, and you guys just independently nailed the two main hook-up wire gauges they appear to have available. I think most of my current supply is from Radio Shack and wherever I ordered this kynar from.

I believe I used 22 AWG, solid for the power and ground to the voltage regulator. I also have some stranded, 18 AWG. Hmm. I may have used that actually, but I can't remember. I tend to go with the thickest stuff feasible when running power and ground.

Either way - I plan on upgrading the video lines. The soldering work isn't difficult at all with this mod. Using thicker wire shouldn't be a big deal.
Glossectomy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Glossectomy »

Just wanted to give a heads up that my flasher arrived today, so if anyone near Colorado needs their board updated feel free to contact me at glossectomy138 which is at gmail. It's a super quick update so I'll have your board on its way back the day after it arrives.

Thanks for everything Tim
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CkRtech
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by CkRtech »

So with 1.3, I believe I am still experiencing issues. I have only tested Ninja Gaiden. I thought I would share two photos here and ask you guys to let me know if I am off my rocker. I don't really have other unmodded systems to use for comparison. The emulator I checked seem to confirm this was an issue, but I defer to you guys -

1: Orange outline on front of this one particular sprite. It kinda looked out of place, but I am not certain. It didn't look like this in the emulator.

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2: The "border" background here is grey, but I think it is supposed to be black (was black in emulator).

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eightbitminiboss
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by eightbitminiboss »

CkRtech wrote:So with 1.3, I believe I am still experiencing issues. I have only tested Ninja Gaiden. I thought I would share two photos here and ask you guys to let me know if I am off my rocker. I don't really have other unmodded systems to use for comparison. The emulator I checked seem to confirm this was an issue, but I defer to you guys -

1: Orange outline on front of this one particular sprite. It kinda looked out of place, but I am not certain. It didn't look like this in the emulator.

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2: The "border" background here is grey, but I think it is supposed to be black (was black in emulator).

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Sprite looks correct here:

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The border background can easily be overscan which you wouldn't normally see on a regular CRT television most likely.

Edit: Emulator appears the same here. Doesn't look like an issue to me.

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CkRtech
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by CkRtech »

Oh good! Thanks.
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

The border issue is totally normal for Ninja Gaiden, I just pulled out my unmodified front loader and it did the same thing.
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darcagn
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by darcagn »

Hmmm. Ninja Gaiden doesn't have a white border on mine, and on the NESRGB bugged boards, even the games that work usually have a white/gray border.
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

darcagn wrote:Hmmm. Ninja Gaiden doesn't have a white border on mine, and on the NESRGB bugged boards, even the games that work usually have a white/gray border.
It's actually not white, it's a very light purple in that particular scene. The borders are actually the same color as the background in the intermission scenes if you look closely, and the game does this on an unmodified system as well.
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CkRtech
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by CkRtech »

It was closer to grey for me when I took that screenshot. My ambient light in that room is rather low, so the phone's camera gets exposed for what it is. ...Oh. Heh. Not a bad pun there, eh? :mrgreen:

I was wondering if there was just naturally a bit of inconsistency with Ninja Gaiden in general (and therefore completely independent of the NESRGB board). I wasn't sure about the sprite (thanks, eightbitminiboss), but it seemed like the emulator had a blatantly black screen during that cinematic vs. my system. I wasn't convinced by the emulator though, because I suppose those things be a variable of sorts as well. Granted, they have had years to mature at this point.

Anyone else rocking version 1.3 now? It seems like the definitive version as it is now labeled in bold on Tim's site as "Final fixed version."

Thanks again, Tim.
kamiboy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by kamiboy »

Guys, once you got the email of options from Tim, how did you respond? Just reply to the same email?
Last edited by kamiboy on Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mickcris
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by mickcris »

kamiboy wrote:Guys, once you got the email of options from Tin, how did you respond? Just reply to the same email?
yes
Jeppen
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Jeppen »

CkRtech wrote:
Anyone else rocking version 1.3 now? It seems like the definitive version as it is now labeled in bold on Tim's site as "Final fixed version."
Yup I got 1.3 and tested some of the classic games, I can't find any errors.

Ducktales
Mega man
Mega man 2
Mega man 4
Chip n Dale
Super Mario 2 (doki)
Elrinth
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Elrinth »

so... anyone got any spare nesrgb boards they'd like to sell? :)
jamma
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by jamma »

Hi the board is here, the envelope it came in had been opened and not sealed so thanks to UK customs for that one! I assume it did not come with a USB cable, but was a standard mini usb connection so had one here.

Have sorted the flash and it all works great, I will keep it until the weekend incase another fix is released, but will then post on.
pudrik
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by pudrik »

Well i wouldnt say 1.3 is final
i still have the same issues as all other versions

see https://www.pudrik.com/stuff/screens/nesrgb/ for more pictures
can dump of any game if someone need for a comparision
these screens come from a twin famicom system.
im running it in NTSC mode.
alimadhi
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by alimadhi »

so now NES support RGB with this nice mod Tim-W NESRGB, what about YPbPr ? my TV LED/LCD i don't have Crt TV
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BuckoA51
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by BuckoA51 »

Buy an XRGB.
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
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darcagn
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by darcagn »

alimadhi wrote:so now NES support RGB with this nice mod Tim-W NESRGB, what about YPbPr ? my TV LED/LCD i don't have Crt TV
This device will convert the RGB signal to YPbPr. It will only work, however, if your TV accepts 240p signals through Component. Some TVs do not.


If your TV doesn't support 240p signals through Component, or you're looking for a high-end fancy upscaler with scanlines and lots of other features, I'd recommend the XRGB-mini, but it's 7x the price. I have one and I love it.
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by evil_ash_xero »

alimadhi wrote:so now NES support RGB with this nice mod Tim-W NESRGB, what about YPbPr ? my TV LED/LCD i don't have Crt TV
CSY2100s are pretty groovy.
thebert
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by thebert »

It's taking me forever to desolder the ppu! Just a few stubborn pins left to free up. I'm taking a break and trying again tomorrow before I get careless...
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

I've been playing a ton of Famicom/NES games lately and I still haven't come across any problems. Now I'm wondering which of my other systems (front loader, top loader and AV Fami) should get an NESRGB next...
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Hype at maximum levels.
viletim
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

The grey background bug technical report.

The bug has been there since the beginning. Of the first batch (100 units) I received no reports of problems that could be attributed to this. On the second batch many people complained that the background colour (at h'3f00') was always grey in many games.

I confirmed for myself that the bug only affected the background colour and only some (most) games. I suspected that the problem may be related to the RAM chip as I had substituted the part used in the original production for one which was faster and of a different brand. Swapping the RAM chip between a boards from the first and second batch showed that the bug moved with the RAM chip.

I decided to modify the logic in the PLD to use the a copy of the background colour byte stored in the PLD instead of the RAM chip. I did this and it appeared to solve the problem. This became version 1.1 POF. This was a quick solution that avoided the need to spend time on solving the root cause when I really needed time to deal with customers.

While this did solve the bug, it was reported by some ( a bit later) that when using version 1.1 the background colour can appear misaligned to the rest of the picture by a fraction of a pixel. I didn't think of this at time I made the modifications but it does make sense. During image rendering when the data is stored in two different places (RAM and PLD) if one of these is faster than the other by a significant amount it may be visible in the output video. From testing five boards from my stock I can only see a visible background shift on one of them. However, I don't have game Mega Man II which is what some were complaining about.

To get to the bottom of the real problem I started looking at the data on the bus. I noticed that games which suffered from the bug were writing to the palette registers on every frame, while those that did not were only writing the data once on the scene change. Here's a capture of the data from an affected game. It writes the whole 32 bytes to the palette every vertical blanking interval. Here's a trace from the RAM chip's /WE line during the palette write:
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Zooming in, I noticed there was a short glitch some time after the last write of the block. Here's the event from the CRO. 1/yellow is the RAM's /WE, R/white is the PPU's /CE, and 2/cyan is A0. I would show A1 and A2 also, but this is only a dual channel CRO.
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What's happening here? The RAM's /WE line may only go low when writing to the PPU data register and then only if the address register hold the location in range 3F00-3F1F. In the above picture, you see the last two writes to the data register, destined for palette area 3F1E and 3F1F. A0 is visible and is high, while A1 and A2 are also high (though not shown) so this is definitely to the data register.

A little while later a glitch is visible on the /WE line. The data on the bus is h'10' at this point (not shown) -- looking up the colour I find it is indeed grey. If you look at the A0 trace you will see it is low at the time of the glitch. This is not data meant for the data register (address 7), but instead it's meant for the address register (address 6).

What is happening is all events in the PLD are edge driven. Addressed latched on /CE fall, data on /CE rise. The address (I mean A0, A1, A2) is latched for every read/write to the PPU. Once the palette block is written it is still latched at the data register (address 7) then the game writes to the address register.... What is the logic for /WE then?

IF the latched address is in the palette area
AND the write is to the data register
THEN /WE = R/W or /CE

I added another condition that for /WE to be asserted the write must be to the data register according to the current values of A0, A1, A2 as well as the latched version (as this is a mix of edge and level logic). This eliminates the glitch and the problem of the corruption of the background colour byte. This is version 1.3 POF.

Here is a close up of the glitch while running version 1.0 POF.
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mickcris
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by mickcris »

So even though the bug exists on the 1st batch of boards, there is no benefit in updating correct? Or was this the same thing that was causing the Duck Maze issue?
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