The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread

[Friendly]

the U is certainly not anywhere near profitable for them at the moment, but it's not like it's pushed them a whole lot closer to insolvency or anything

Don't underestimate it. Wii U has cost Nintendo billions of dollars.

[replayme]

Regarding that Eurogamer article on which I won't waste any time to read it; Wii U is nothing like Dreamcast. DC sales were great at first and it had incredible software support (both first and third party); most larger publishers did support it for the entire duration of its short commercial life. Wii U on the other hand was ignored by most publishers right from the start, and it has by now been abandoned by the few that did support it. DC received a huge number of Sega's best creations during its first year, while Wii U got incredibly little from Nintendo, who obviously did not plan ahead AT ALL before launching the system.

I've obviously made my feelings abundantly clear on the Wii U (and Nintendo) in the past, so I won't repeat myself.

I will however state that many of the article's comments agree with your sentiment, and do not agree with its gist at all. So take that as you will...

[BryanM]

I'm not rushing to buy a Wii U: It has a very uncertain future

Nah they're not going to dump it in the bin, that would be suicidal. They're going to ride it out with anemic software support (maybe even a Zelda title that isn't a reskin of square-button-mashing-warriors) and the next generation will have a standard controller as the default.

So, uuh, do you guys think we have a chance for that Fire Emblem X SMT game? Monoliths X is probably to late in development to chancel it, so I guess it will be the last big game from Nintendo on the Wii U.

I imagine they'd push through with it to the end if only to have one exclusive jRPG on the box.

don't feel the system needs games like GTA, which I don't play anyway.

Right right, trying to compete head-to-head with an opponent's strengths is suicidal. A few token sports and 1st person shooters aren't going to win that market when the PC Clones are absolutely saturated with them. The RPG market is wide, wide open; but that's a market the 3DS is slaughtering everything left right and center in.

But like I've mentioned before, they really don't seem to want the U to succeed. Case in point: the biggest goddamn killer app of all time - Mario Golf. 3DS only. Hurm.

Even a bad port beats having nothing.

Nintendo is not a resource-rich company, with only a little more than 5,000 employees on a consolidated basis. We cannot achieve a strong presence by imitating others and simply competing in terms of size

I'm pretty sure the last Grand Theft Auto game had about 5,000 people dedicated solely to ass texture development alone. There's no goddamn way they could compete directly with GTA.

What is the attach rate?

Around 4. Compared to the Phantasy Star 4's 2, it's like more than double. Double. Nintendo wins again!

/retardedfanboywank

I always believed that PS Vita still had a chance, and I was right.

If the Wii U is dead, the Vita is beyond deader than dead. If the Vita "has a chance", the Wii U has a chance.

You can't have it both ways, Mr.Anderson.

Or, Mr.WorseThanDreamcastAndGamecubeCombinedDispitePerformingExactlyInTheMiddleOfTheTwo.

[replayme]

Vita may be "dead" in comparison to the Wii U, but it still has more games coming out for it in 2014.

You can never kill the Vita. After all, Vita means Life.

Live Long and Prosper (LLP), Sony Vita. May the life-force course through your circuits for all eternity.

Amen.

[replayme]

^ I find that report more uplifting and honourable than clueless. That's what I like about Nintendo, they'd rather fold their doors and say they did it their way than be forced to conform to a tired common standard and ultimately make video gaming of today even duller.

I hope they stick to their guns and come up with something to carry on their recent successes. Wii U is the first blip in a string of highly profitable endeavours, and although I admit it was a bad call right from the first glimpse (I never had faith), it serves as a decent reason to go back to the drawing board.

It is their staunch refusal to play ball, and to offer what gamers want, that has seen them lose so much faith among their own fans and the industry.

You say that the report is "uplifting and honourable", whereas I would argue that it resolutely displays their cluelessness. And you may like their way of conducting business, but I assure you that these practices only end up doing more harm, and alienate them from an industry where the only people that suffer are the consumers.

You obviously never bought a Wii U, so therefore haven't put your money where your mouth is, and had to deal with their way of doing business. But think of all the people out there who did buy a Wii U (day one), and who have seen their investment fizzle and fade in the wake of Nintendo's half hearted promises. What about their QOL?

Nintendo can go back to the drawing board a million times after the Wii U, but it won't make a bit of difference. The damage is done. If Nintendo are to salvage anything, including consumer (and industry) confidence, then they need to start now and keep supporting the Wii U. And to echo a comment that I read earlier (which I'll apply to Nintendo), people like a fighter - even if the person is in the trenches. It's why I love my Vita...

If Nintendo want to at least come out with a machine that is as fondly remembered as the Dreamcast, then they'll continue to support it. The fact that they've always appeared to be complacent, have already given up, and haven't given the Wii U their best, is why the company is so rightfully scorned within the marketplace.

A quitter never wins. And if Nintendo do close their doors, no-one's going to remember them (save for hardcore OAPs who remember them at their very best).

Personally, I don't see as to why anyone should be championing Nintendo's present form - especially given the company's incongruent disposition within the market. People are always bitching about MS, and even that company had to do a U-Turn so as to salvage its XBox brand.

No-one likes a person (or company) that fails to see reason and is inflexible. After all, what point is there for any relationship (be it between two people, or a company and consumer) if there is no compromise?

Judging by Nintendo's stubborn unwillingness to compromise, no wonder so many people (consumers and third parties) have upped sticks and been driven into the arms of Sony and MS.

[Friendly]

I always believed that PS Vita still had a chance, and I was right.

If the Wii U is dead, the Vita is beyond deader than dead. If the Vita "has a chance", the Wii U has a chance.

You can't have it both ways, Mr.Anderson.

Why bother to post such nonsense that can easily be disproven? PS Vita was the second best selling system in Japan in 2013 (after 3DS), and so far it is the second best selling system of 2014 in Japan. Western Vita sales are bad but have gone up since PS4 was released. Vita has a fantastic attach rate; at E3 Tretton revealed that the average PS Vita owner has purchased 10+ games. This is part of the reason why there is a steady stream of new software (third party, too) for Vita, but not for Wii U. Vita may never become mainstream, but it has found a niche for itself and its situation is improving.

[BryanM]

the average PS Vita owner has purchased 10+ games.

What kind of cat drugs are you on to believe such wild bullshit?

[Friendly]

I think we are done here. Good day to you.

[trap15]

If Nintendo want to at least come out with a machine that is as fondly remembered as the Dreamcast, then they'll continue to support it.

May I remind you that the Dreamcast was discontinued like 3 or 4 years after release?

And if Nintendo do close their doors, no-one's going to remember them

I... what in the ever loving fuck are you on, son?

[EmperorIng]

A principal side-affect of Vita addiction is a heavily-warped perception of reality.

OT: Iwata's latest report is Nintendo realizing they've dropped the ball and are attempting to get themselves back on the right track.

What people don't understand is that Nintendo only a game company, meaning it doesn't have other divisions such as Sony or Microsoft. They can operate on far less and stand to gain much more profits in the video-game market, as last generation has amply proven. A bad generation is harmful, but nowhere near as much as what the arms-race between Sony and Microsoft cost them respectively last generation.

Proof of point: Sony's stock troubles and loss of money on the PS3; Microsoft removing its CEO, and investors considering selling the Xbox brand - let's not forget those pieces of bad news, people!

[BareKnuckleRoo]

And if Nintendo do close their doors, no-one's going to remember them

I... what in the ever loving fuck are you on, son?

[brentsg]

Personally, I don't see as to why anyone should be championing Nintendo's present form

They shouldn't... People shouldn't be championing any of these companies. They are just big companies that want your money, nothing more.

[AntiFritz]

If Nintendo want to at least come out with a machine that is as fondly remembered as the Dreamcast, then they'll continue to support it.

May I remind you that the Dreamcast was discontinued like 3 or 4 years after release?

It was discontinued 2 years and 4 months after it was released in japan. And only 1 year and 6 months after its american release date.

[Skykid]

It is their staunch refusal to play ball, and to offer what gamers want, that has seen them lose so much faith among their own fans and the industry.

You say that the report is "uplifting and honourable", whereas I would argue that it resolutely displays their cluelessness. And you may like their way of conducting business, but I assure you that these practices only end up doing more harm, and alienate them from an industry where the only people that suffer are the consumers.

You just don't seem to be able to grasp the concept of anything except a console war. Extrapolate all notions of fanboyism from the equation and you have, as brentsg points out, a commercial field with corporate entities vying for your money. If you feel the need to celebrate one just because, you're a sheep at the mercy of capitalist PR practice. This is why I don't have any intention of buying a Wii U.

At the same time, remove all prejudices and observe from a business mission perspective, and Nintendo is only committed to being different from its competitors. EmperorIng is correct: you Sony zealots get a crumb of good news and you forget the costs of the previous generation, forget Sony's fifteen years of company recession, forget billions of dollar losses increasing year on year (which you can find in this forum, if you're interested). Microsoft, also, spent billions repairing faulty hardware and trying to get a foothold in the console race - only to squander their achievement with the Xbone almost instantly.

Nintendo are an electronic toy manufacturer. They own Pokemon, Mario and Zelda franchises. They have a heritage and a system, that for better or worse, has made them one of Japan's most powerful companies.

In your black and white world, you want them to tear down their status and practices and become just like everyone else: a third leg in a race where two corporate blue-chips with multiple loss-making sectors fight it out to net third-party developers to release games on their all singing, all dancing USB, Blu-Ray laden multimedia devices. To dilute the strength of their IP's and potential to sell their own hardware by frittering away brands that have taken 30 years to strengthen by whoring them across opponent hardware and mobile phones.

What I see is a modicum of respect to the business's forefathers: a kind of old-school Japanese mentality that for better or worse, is resolute. I admire that, and the late Yamauchi probably wouldn't want it any other way.

I would prefer Nintendo to fold and have over a hundred years as a manufacturer of cards, toys and electronic games, with benchmarks like the Game Boy, NES and Super Nintendo to call their own, than to say they gave in to pressure at the last hurdle and sold everything they created to third-party licensees to butcher and fail at, reducing the brand to a sad Sega-like shadow.

From now on, please keep your Sony and Microsoft dick-handling as a separate entity. Nintendo may be in the same market, but they're an altogether different player.

[BulletMagnet]

Semi-obligatory.

[BAD]

A lot of good points have been made since news of Nintendo's 2014 restructuring came, but big media (Bloomberg, Forbes, Pachter) really blew it all out of proportion. The Wii U is not a flop, and Nintendo's not finished. The Wii U is still being sold at big retailers (Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Target, K-Mart), and will continue to be. It's not over for Nintendo or the Wii U. Anyone who's been around the block would know that Nintendo's tough times with the Wii U right now are minor compared to real console disasters like the Atari Jaguar, Philips CD-i, NEC PC-FX, and the Apple Pippin. Nintendo still has retailer support, established first-party titles in the pipeline, and third-party support from Capcom, Namco, Sega, Platinum, and Ubisoft. True, third-party support could be better, but not all of them have abandoned the Wii U, and support can still pick back up after the new Mario Kart and Zelda get the Wii U back on track. Nintendo is not doomed; big media exaggerates to create the results they seek for Sony's heavily-favored PlayStation 4 and Microsoft's Xbox One. Just take a look at Nintendo's history to see that this is all cyclical...

Has Nintendo's legacy and console history been forgotten? The Nintendo Entertainment System was similar to Nintendo Wii in its overwhelming commercial success, but the Super Nintendo Entertainment System was deadlocked with the Sega Genesis, Sony's PlayStation outsold the Nintendo 64, and Sony's PlayStation 2 outsold the Nintendo GameCube. Nintendo hasn't always enjoyed being in first place, but they're still here even after all these years. If it's one thing about Nintendo, it's that they're resilient. No matter how much Michael Pachter brainwashes and wishes for their demise or surrender, it's nowhere in sight.

Back in the early 2000s, Nintendo really seemed like they were in trouble with the Nintendo 64, but in a surprise turn of events, it was Sega who bowed out of console production with the DreamCast. The Nintendo GameCube struggled similarly against Sony PlayStation 2 and Microsoft's Xbox. First place or not, Nintendo always stuck to their guns and maked proprietary games to sell their hardware. Portable domination and Pokemon also helped bridge any gap whenever they needed it. With that, Nintendo has always put incredible care into timing release windows to stay competitive. It appears they may have spread Wii U releases out too thin, though.

I agree with delivering games. All they really have to do is get games on shelves. Nintendo fans will always buy Mario, Zelda, Metroid, and Pokemon. Once the new Zelda and Metroid titles drop, the Wii U will sell itself. Smash Bros. sells Nintendo hardware, too. Nintendo titles are full of iconic characters that are a big part of pop culture. They don't even need to do a console/GamePad SKU price-drop or redesigned console/GamePad SKU to make the Wii U more affordable; they could re-market it with a SKU that substitutes the GamePad. Since the GamePad's screen is keeping the Wii U from being more affordable, they could instead package the console with a Wii Remote or Classic Controller, then make the GamePad optional. Nintendo doesn't have to completely abandon the idea of dual screens or touch control; they just need to get the machine into more homes and make the necessary adjustments to do so.

Long-time Shmups.com poster Skykid put it best: "They own Pokemon, Mario, and Zelda franchises. They have a heritage and a system, that for better or for worse, has made them one of Japan's most powerful companies."

[Obiwanshinobi]

With that, Nintendo has always put incredible care into timing release windows to stay competitive.

What do they compete with? I can believe in some circles Wii Sports was THE party game, but what killer ap does Wii U have?

[Octopod]

With that, Nintendo has always put incredible care into timing release windows to stay competitive.

What do they compete with? I can believe in some circles Wii Sports was THE party game, but what killer ap does Wii U have?

Do killer apps really move consoles? What is the PS4s or Xbones killer app? Hell, what was the PS360s killer app? I can't think of anything.

imo people buy consoles because they develop a library of games that interest them and not a single killer app. Actually now a days it seems like people buy consoles because they are impressed with the hardware regardless of games available...

[Obiwanshinobi]

People buy consoles for various reasons, but the most successful Nintendo consoles happened to have killer aps. If Wii U this late in the day doesn't need one, I don't know what it needs. What else "moved" NES than SMB? What did "move" Wii if not Wii Sports?
Fanservice will only appeal to the dwindling brand loayllists crowd.

[Skykid]

The Nintendo Entertainment System was similar to Nintendo Wii in its overwhelming commercial success, but the Super Nintendo Entertainment System was deadlocked with the Sega Genesis, Sony's PlayStation outsold the Nintendo 64, and Sony's PlayStation 2 outsold the Nintendo GameCube.

Just to note: I do believe the Super Nintendo outsold the Mega Drive by a fair margin in the end.

There's been some recent speculation in this blogspot that claims the MD shifted 40 million units worldwide rather than the original 29. They've gone so far as to modify the wikipedia entries to reflect this.

If you look at the sources used, such as random Spanish fan sites and New York Times articles (journalists pulling figures out of thin air) there's a lot of hopeful wanting going on here. They even included Nomad sales figures, which are irrelevant IMO.
The only people who can officially tell you MD sales are Sega, who haven't officially released the figures.

This is why you can't always trust the internet/Wikipedia for reliable information.

Anyway, sorry, back on topic.

[EmperorIng]

Wii Sports was the reason people bought the Wii, no question about it. You don't become the best-selling game of all time for nothing! NSMB Wii also contributed that 'must-have' factor.

I'll definitely state that Wii U lacks that same type of wow-I-need-this game, whatever its virtues might be.

[ACSeraph]

Do killer apps really move consoles? What is the PS4s or Xbones killer app? Hell, what was the PS360s killer app? I can't think of anything.

I personally will buy a console once it gets a single 'killer app' but not before. Thing is though it depends on the person what constitutes a 'killer app' in the first place. For example I bought a Vita when Project Diva f hit, it was a killer app for me, but that is definitely a minority opinion. In any case I didn't buy it as an investment for a future library, I bought it to play PDf and the future library and potential future killer apps are just a bonus.

What Nintendo needs is a widely appealing killer app, something that will be a major system mover for more than just a small niche, and it doesn't have that unfortunately. The game in question would likely be somthing the majority of members on this forum wouldn't give two shits about.

As for the question of PS3, and 360 killer apps, for me personally it was Virtua Fighter 5 on PS3 (making it basically a day one purchase for me), and Triggerheart Exelica on 360. For my casual friends it was Infamous on PS3, and Halo 3 on 360.

Point is, killer apps definitely move systems, but they have to be killer apps for a large portion of potential buyers. Mario 3D is certainly a killer app for a certain group of people, but if you ask me it seems like the diehard nintendo fanbase gets smaller every year, so the first party stuff aparently isn't enough to keep their systems afloat anymore.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I might add that Nintendo need to raise a new generation of brand loyallists, and no matter how good Super Mario 3D World is, not many kids (families, really) played it.

[ACSeraph]

I might add that Nintendo need to raise a new generation of brand loyallists, and no matter how good Super Mario 3D World is, not many kids (families, really) played it.

That's a good point. I mean it's really us here who were raised on Nintendo's stuff, and how many of us really care about it now even close to as much as we did when we were younger?

Could it be that Nintendo has moved out of the mainstream and is now simply producing games for an (admittedly large) neo-retro niche?

[BryanM]

Since the GamePad's screen is keeping the Wii U from being more affordable, they could instead package the console with a Wii Remote or Classic Controller, then make the GamePad optional.

Currently you still can't actually buy the tablet in a store, right? You still have to order one from Nintendo for ~$150?

Do killer apps really move consoles? What is the PS4s or Xbones killer app? Hell, what was the PS360s killer app? I can't think of anything.

imo people buy consoles because they develop a library of games that interest them and not a single killer app.

It really is a blockbuster driven business - having a library of very popular games in a range of popular genres is essential.

As a simple example, Pokemon X bumped up the sales of the 3DS by ~20% for a couple weeks. But what that blip doesn't tell is how many people bought a 3DS before and will buy one after that where Pokemon existing was a required part of the deal. From right now, that number is at most 5 to 10 million people, and probably at least 2 to 3 million.

The U has five million+ sellers: New Super Mario Bros. U, Nintendo Land, Super Mario 3D World, New Super Luigi U (the same fuckin' game, twice. Brilliant), Wii Party U. Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate barely hits the top 10. And like I repeat over and over, releasing Dragon Quest 10 on the Wii months before the U version, and seemingly not releasing Monster Hunter 4 on the thing ever... well, they seem to intentionally want the thing to die.

With their anemic install base, the PSX4 has managed to have 5 million sellers, while the boner has Almost Three. Gotta have a lot of big reasons for someone to willingly sacrifice 300 quid, and releasing every good game in the universe on the 3DS instead isn't going to move it forward any.

Could it be that Nintendo has moved out of the mainstream and is now simply producing games for an (admittedly large) neo-retro niche?

Not really.

If you're talking about USian white male NasCar, beer and realism crowd, they've always been the average chinese room. Mario Kart 7 still moved 10 million on its platform. Chinpokomon as well. You can't call anything above a million "niche", not really.

[replayme]

Ta da!

http://prankster101.com/articles/how-ca ... -fortunes/

[Skykid]

Ta da!

http://prankster101.com/articles/how-ca ... -fortunes/

You know what the problem is here? You don't listen. It's respectful in a conversation to at least acknowledge a different side of the argument. No-one is actually arguing that the Wii U isn't a bit of a dodo, but all the points around the current state of Nintendo seem to fall on deaf ears every time they're raised. I get the impression you either don't read them or read them as saying something other than what's actually written. I don't know how we're supposed to have an actual discussion in this fashion.

Anyway, let's have a look at your article:

and that even fan favourite franchise updates (such as the recently released Zelda and Pokemon games) have done little to stem the handheld’s ailing fortunes – despite the system selling 11.65 million units in 2013 (down from 12.71 million units sold during the same period in 2012).

So "Ailing fortunes" and the downward spiral spin here is that the console sold 1.06 million less than the previous year, while still outselling its direct competition (PS Vita) by countless millions of units. Shareholders quake, all third party development is about to cease, the userbase is about to fold!

Without going into too much detail as to why sales for the Wii U and 3DS have faltered

Except 3DS sales haven't faltered. They're incredibly strong.

it’s worth pointing out that Nintendo no longer enjoy a monopolistic stranglehold over the market that they once presided over during the 16 bit SNES era and when the GameBoy enjoyed a zeitgeist level of popularity.

Until the Wii enjoyed a zeitgeist level of popularity that had a monopolistic stranglehold over an entirely new casual gaming demographic between the years of 2006 - 2010. Recall that one?

And as the Wii U faces stiff competition (and has been getting deservedly trounced) by Sony’s Playstation 4 and Microsoft’s XBox One

Nice impartial integrity at work there.

so too does the 3DS come up short in the face of mobiles and tablets (as well as Sony Vita) despite being the best selling “console” for 2013.

The contradiction ever. If there's a handheld being gang raped by mobiles, it's the Vita. How does the best selling handheld console "come up short"?

Having your market share be eaten by hungrier competitors is one thing

Nintendo are in a different market though.

but to not swiftly adapt to changing market conditions is a folly only reserved for the biggest of fools. And whilst 2013 was supposed to be “The Year of Luigi”, in many ways Nintendo’s own comedic performance aped that of the bumbling icon, as the company aimlessly ambled its way through the year before parting with its money (like the biggest of fools) as it forecasted a loss of £205m in the year to March. But even with its recent (incredibly foolish)

Fool, comedic, bumbling, ambled, fools, foolish. Always important to know an informative article is written with a degree of perspective rather than jaded counter-enthusiasm. Who needs credibility anyway.

Despite the industry’s calls for it to jettison its hardware manufacturing arm in favour of licensing its intellectual software rights to Sony, Microsoft and mobile, Nintendo still has around $10 Billion in the bank. $10 BILLION! That’s enough money to allow Nintendo to carry on with its Kamikaze-style money burning madness for the next 20 years – and still be in the black.

Which is why you should probably enjoy your interim period of blue chip electronic corps domination until they come back with something else that triggers the imagination and sells equally or better than the 3DS. Else you'll be eating your words and look silly. These things happen you know.

But as Nintendo’s vice-like grip and influence on the industry fades,

This faded after the NES in the early 90's.

it is only its Japanese pride (or sheer misplaced sense of arrogance according to some people) that compels the company to carry on being a hardware manufacturing player.

They're compelled by trade. It's their business, they do it their way. A failure is not the end, and doesn't call for a meltdown, especially when you have another successful piece of hardware bringing in money to soften losses. Sony, alternatively, have been hemorrhaging money like a lactose intolerant tramp in a dairy farm across so many divisions they've probably lost count. See White House Down for details.

Nintendo are so invested in their goals they've been buying back company shares from dissatisfied holders.

After all, would you hire someone whose recent CV history has been less than stellar?

I refer you to Microsoft's PR and quality control divisions, the XBOX ONE, PS3, PS Vita, and Sony's Television department.

Personally however, one would agree with Publilius Syrus who once stated that “a good reputation is more valuable than money”, and that it is on the basis of this hard won reputation that the PS4 and Xbox One have (rightly) trounced Nintendo’s own Wii U 15 month lifetime sales figures within a matter of weeks – despite both coming in with less then stellar launch software.

Nintendo has the strongest and most well-respected reputation of any in the field of videogame business today. Sony and Microsoft would both agree with that.

Sony and MS's reputation has been hard won indeed: no-innovation in controller ergonomics or design for over twenty years, motion control ideas stolen from... Nintendo, and the support for millions of broken games consoles shipping out the door. Let's not forget HD DVD and the Xbone marketing disaster preceding its launch that firmly put one of its feet in the grave, and selling hardware at a considerable loss to try and gain market share.

That's a reputation worthy of applause. Thanks for the Blu Rayz guys!

This is the third year in a row that the Japanese company has failed to make a profit

This is just for you. Think about it for a while.


I'm actually going to stop reading now since the article is longer than my life and I doubt there's anything new to address.

[BryanM]

Right. If the 3DS is doing poorly, then the PSX4 is an absolute fuckin' disaster of biblical proportions. Cats sleeping with dogs et el

You... you can't argue with someone who has a mental disorder. Not without becoming crazy, too. Give the lepers a wide berth, lest the arithmetic processors in your brain become corrupted too.

---

Tried out another one of those store demo kiosks today. The current rotation of store playable demos seems to be... Zelda Wind Waker HD. Seemed to be more of the same of what I dislike about the franchise - unskippable slowly scrolling text boxes. Something like a minute before being able to move, and no sword and nothing to kill when I could. Just walked away by then; no tektites no dodongos no care

No 3D World demo, and of course not even a movie of Monster Hunter anymore (why have they never used it as a floor demo? Isn't/wasn't the demo available to everyone with the console anyway?)... For someone seemingly wanting to run a business, they could do their demos better.

(For contrast New Mario was a demo last year, and you started crushing the guts out of goombas or goomba-like things immediately after running the thing. Best seller, just saiyan.)

To be honest I never understood why these things were always so stingy when it comes to variety. Wouldn't letting people have a play of as many of your best games as possible be a good thing?

[BulletMagnet]

Just to note: I do believe the Super Nintendo outsold the Mega Drive by a fair margin in the end.

In fairness, that's probably due at least in part to the fact that they stuck with the thing so darn long while waiting for the N64 to come out, while Sega had already moved on to the Saturn some time before (and that's if you don't count the Sega CD and 32X).

[louisg]

Just to note: I do believe the Super Nintendo outsold the Mega Drive by a fair margin in the end.

In fairness, that's probably due at least in part to the fact that they stuck with the thing so darn long while waiting for the N64 to come out, while Sega had already moved on to the Saturn some time before (and that's if you don't count the Sega CD and 32X).

The Genesis did come out a couple years earlier than the SNES though. But people were still busy when their NESses when it first hit.