Cinemateq Picture Optimizer - are they any good?

[Fudoh]

This will work fine. The only disadvante is that the Cinemateq does not accept 480p on the same input, so you can't use 480p from PS2 games which support it. RGB vs. component should not matter on the PO2+.

You have to try the different deinterlacing modes on the Cinemateq. There's one which is nice for 240p material, while others are better for 480i content. And last you have to make sure to use the proper output polarity on the VGA output, otherwise the SLG3000 won't work. You can change the polarity in the Cinemateq's setup menu.

[Pothunter]

I just received my POP from eBay, it's the simpler non-plus one. In 720p RGsB output mode I can already see the great job it does with my NTSC Sega Master System on my HD-Ready LCD. The picture is very clear with minimal haloing, you have to sit 10cm from the screen to notice it. At the moment the colors are "blown up" with too much brightness and contrast, probably my old Sega RGB cable which will be replaced.

Want I really want the POP to do, is to output YUV for my pass-through capture device (component-in only). I have this VGA-to-Component cable that should be able to show this YUV signal on my LCD. However when the POP is set to YUV output and this cable is connected, my LCD says it receives no signal on the Component channel, no matter the output resolution. I've tried the same thing on another LCD and again no signal. I am able to see the YUV output on the RGB channel when the POP is connected with a normal VGA cable, but the colors are all green.

Could this lack of picture on the Component channel be caused by the POP, or perhaps by the VGA-to-Component cable?

[Pothunter]

I found the problem. YUV-component does not equal YpBpR-component, which is what most LCDs want on their component input including mine. They are quite different kinds of component video, and converting between them is not straightforward at all.

I'm doing this another way. I'll set the POP output to RGBS and line-doubling, connect a VGA-to-SCART cable, and run that into the CSY-2100 RGB-to-YpBpR converter I have. My capture device and LCD should then receive 480i/576i in the proper component format.

[Fudoh]

???????

[Pothunter]

???????

What are these question marks about? I thought I'd share my experiences with the POP, maybe they're useful to someone else.

[Fudoh]

I hope not, since they don't make too much sense.

I just received my POP from eBay, it's the simpler non-plus one.

that's their first scaler, the one without a LCD on front, right ?

In 720p RGsB output mode I can already see the great job it does with my NTSC Sega Master System on my HD-Ready LCD.

what's your display ? To use a RGsB signal for HD timings is so far off the charts, I can't even begin to think about it

Want I really want the POP to do, is to output YUV for my pass-through capture device (component-in only).

this must work with the proper settings.

I have this VGA-to-Component cable that should be able to show this YUV signal on my LCD.

If you set the PO to component output and if you use your TV's component input, then yes, this should work.

I am able to see the YUV output on the RGB channel when the POP is connected with a normal VGA cable, but the colors are all green.

on top you wrote about RGsB. You're sure that your tried proper component ? VGA to VGA with the PO set to RGBHV works, right ?

I found the problem. YUV-component does not equal YpBpR-component, which is what most LCDs want on their component input including mine.

here it begins to get - let's say - unclear. There's a just a single analogue component standard on the home theater world and the PO was designed to work on standard TV sets, so I really doubt that this is your problem.

I'm doing this another way. I'll set the POP output to RGBS and line-doubling, connect a VGA-to-SCART cable, and run that into the CSY-2100 RGB-to-YpBpR converter I have.

The CSY-2100 is for 15khz signals. You'll blow your CSY if you do this.

My capture device and LCD should then receive 480i/576i in the proper component format.

There is no interlaced output from the PO - it's a linedoubler - in terms of 15khz input to 31khz output. And even if your idea somehow worked (which it does NOT), then why would you want the PO in the first place ? Just to convert 240p to 480i for your capture box ? Use a scan converter for that....

Unfortunately I can't find the PO manual online, so I can't check the options you have for adjusting the output colorspace, but I'm pretty sure that it's just a settings problems, since component should work.

[Pothunter]

Thank you that's helpful, apparently I'm mixing things up and talking nonsense. As you've probably guessed I'm new with this stuff, I'm in the middle of a crash course in scaling (your website is extremely helpful). Please bear with me.

that's their first scaler, the one without a LCD on front, right ?

Yes stupid me, I kept saying POP where I meant PO.

what's your display ? To use a RGsB signal for HD timings is so far off the charts, I can't even begin to think about it

I see. It's just that with the VGA to VGA cable, both RGsB/720p and RGBS/720p output look the best on my LG LCD (which goes up to 720p/1080i). RGBHV/720p output shifts the image too far to the right, and YUV/720p output makes the image green.

If you set the PO to component output and if you use your TV's component input, then yes, this should work.

With the VGA to Component cable and YUV output, the LCD definitely states no signal on its Component channel. No matter the output resolution.

There is no interlaced output from the PO - it's a linedoubler - in terms of 15khz input to 31khz output. And even if your idea somehow worked (which it does NOT), then why would you want the PO in the first place ? Just to convert 240p to 480i for your capture box ? Use a scan converter for that..

You're right the output is of course progressive, adding the CSY makes no sense. Progressive is the whole reason why it displays great on LCDs.


So going with YUV output is still the best way. I'll try another VGA-to-Component cable and see if it gives any signal.

[Pothunter]

Success! It appears it was a cable matter, with a new Sega RGB cable and VGA-to-Component cable I get this:

Power Strike II capture test

You can see there's a slight vertical judder effect when there's movement (see title screen), but overall I'm very pleased with the result.

Many thanks to the Shmups forum and Fudoh in particular.

[fagin]

Cycle through the deinterlacing modes to find one that removes the judder.

[blizzz]

You can see there's a slight vertical judder effect when there's movement (see title screen), but overall I'm very pleased with the result.

Use Force VT and TV mode off.

[Pothunter]

Use Force VT and TV mode off.

Thanks, that's it. I knew I had to force a certain Film Mode to decrease lag, so I chose Force GFX because it seemed logical for games. Strangely that mode causes the judder, while Force VT is indeed judder-free.

[Fudoh]

Gfx = graphics mode = no motion between fields or frames.
VT = video mode = full motion between all fields/frames.

[Antiriad]

Hi,
finally I will receive my CPO2+ in next two days!

Since I'm a newbie in upscaling, which are the best settings/suggestions to upscale a Sony PS2 connected via Component cable?

The output of the CPO2+, as I wrote in my older post, will be VGA for SGL-3000 (I will look for the option to invert the polarity).

Thanks

[fagin]

Alter polarity, linedouble mode and settings as said above (Force VT).

Basically as long as you set the output to linedouble, you can cycle through the deinterlacing modes to find the one you think is the best for you.

On this device there are several modes and some will provide better interlacing but less sharp a picture. Since you're placing an SLG in toe, this will sharpen the image up anyhow, so you're better going for a decent deinterlacing mode imo.

Have fun!

[Antiriad]

Alter polarity, linedouble mode and settings as said above (Force VT).

Basically as long as you set the output to linedouble, you can cycle through the deinterlacing modes to find the one you think is the best for you.

On this device there are several modes and some will provide better interlacing but less sharp a picture. Since you're placing an SLG in toe, this will sharpen the image up anyhow, so you're better going for a decent deinterlacing mode imo.

Have fun!

Hi!
At first, thanks for your support!
So this is my actual configuration, but I could not find the deinterlacing modes you wrote about...

INPUT SETUP:
-------------------
ACTIVE INPUT: YUV1 (PS2 is connected to CPO2+ via component cable )
...all the rest is default.


OUTPUT SETUP:
------------------
OUTPUT SIGNAL: RGBHV (the only actually working, CPO2+ is connected to TV via VGA cable)
BACKGROUND LEVEL: 20
RGB LUMINANCE ROOM: SMTPE

SYNC POLARITIES:
H-SYNC: NEG
V-SYNC: POS
F-SYNC: NEG
C-SYNC: NEG
D-SYNC: NEG

FILTER SETUP:
-----------------
NOISE REDUCTION: 0
DIRECTIONAL INTERPOLATION: OFF
FILM MODE: FORCE VT

TV MODE and OVERSCAN are both OFF.
ACTIVE RESOLUTION is set to DOUBLING.

I'm testing this config with Japanese ART OF FIGHTING ANTHOLOGY (RYUUKO NO KEN) game disc.
Image quality it's really good, but in loadings I see some artifacts on black screen (probably 'cause there is a change of resolution between neogeo games and the main menu?). Shadows of the characters seems good but sometimes are a bit messy.

So I have some newbie questions!

1. Where I can find deinterlacing mode options?
2. Which are correct polarity options for SLG-3000? (I will receive it in next days)
3. There is something in my configuration that I can improve? (eg. RGB LUMINANCE ROOM, DIRECTIONAL INTERPOLATION or something other)
5. How can I minimize lag?

Thanks !!!

[fagin]

Cycle through the various "Film Modes". VT is one of many.

[Antiriad]

Cycle through the various "Film Modes". VT is one of many.

Hi fagin,
In my setup film mode is forced yet to vt... It is the same, right?

What are correct polarity options for SLG-3000?

It's better to set resolution to linedouble or 480p?

Thanks!

[Fudoh]

What are correct polarity options for SLG-3000?

what does it matter - just wait for your SLG to arrive and give it a try. If you don't get scanlines switch around the polarity until it works

It's better to set resolution to linedouble or 480p?

It's the same for 240p or 480i input. 480p probably forces a framerate conversion for 50Hz inputs, while linedouble switches the output according to the input.

[Antiriad]

What are correct polarity options for SLG-3000?

what does it matter - just wait for your SLG to arrive and give it a try. If you don't get scanlines switch around the polarity until it works

Ook! So there isn't any risk of damage! Thanks!

[fagin]

Cycle through the various "Film Modes". VT is one of many.

Hi fagin,
In my setup film mode is forced yet to vt... It is the same, right?

I'm shooting blind here so I really need to pull my unit out and see specifics. From what I remember you scroll through the various film modes.

[flip]

Hi everyone,

while I've been reading threads on this forum occasionally for years, I finally registered to ask a few questions and hopefully join some more discussions later on.
OK so I'm a total noob when it comes to this stuff, for the past 18 years I've only used RGB into CRT TVs and I'm currently considering to finally make the move to LCD with an added video processor since I own a whole bunch of retro consoles. So please excuse my questions which might seem painfully obvious to the more informed among you.

The Cinemateq POPII looks like a nice alternative for those on a budget, plus the company's from my home town. But there's a few things I just don't understand:
1. I read that it has no audio routing. When I look at photos of the POP, I sure see a cinch port for video but none for audio. Will I have to connect all sources to my stereo? And how does this work with the Scart inputs?
2. Do both Scart ports take an RGB signal? According to the manual one is for RGB and one is for Composite. I was planning to connect two Scart switchboxes, that's why I ask.
3. Is 1080p output limited to RGBHV or could I use VGA as well? Are there even any modern TVs out there that have RGBHV/ BNC inputs? My google results confused me big time on this point, it seems like such an odd choice. Is having 1080p really important in the end?
4. (now that my first post has been approved, another slighty off topic question). I've looked into the DVDO IScan VP-30 with ABT card installed as an alternative. It doesn't have RGB scart inputs. How do I connect any older console like a Mega Drive or my Supergun to such a processor? RGB scart to VGA or RGBHV isn't a matter of a simple cable/ adapter right? I need some kind of (not cheap) converter on top?

Thanks in advance!

[Fudoh]

Is Gräfelfing officially a town on it's own ??

1) Right, no audio whatsoever on the Cinemateq. If you input via scart, you use RGB cables with analogue stereo breakouts.
2) yes, both do RGB, composite is just the factory preset for the 2nd one.
3) RGBHV and VGA are the same. Sony LCDs still have VGA, many others as well. Panasonic has phased it out already.
4) The DVDOs have a sync input next to the both component inputs, so both component inputs will accept RGBs using a 4th cinch connector, so you simply use a cheap breakout cable from Scart to Cinch.

Technically the Cinemateqs handle 240p better than the DVDOs (true 240p handling), but overall a VP30 is a much better processor than the Cinemateqs. Cinemateq basically stopped developing anything around 2006.

[flip]

Thank you so much for your reply Fudoh! I went ahead and included Gräfelfing into Munich... oops.
Also glad I asked. The missing audio routing in the Cinemateq sounds annoying. I don't want to always have the stereo setup running when playing, so it's probably a deal breaker for me. Guess I'll try to get a cheap VP30 instead. I looked around and realized the necessary breakout cable (six leads if you want to route stereo too, right?) aren't too common, but I'll postpone that matter until I get a VP30 in the first place...

[blizzz]

Some POP models can output audio over HDMI (or DVI), but those might be hard to find (and more expensive). According to an article I found the sound upgrade did cost 1000€ for the POPII, good luck finding one All POP HD ones should alse have audio.

[Fudoh]

I looked around and realized the necessary breakout cable (six leads if you want to route stereo too, right?) aren't too common, but I'll postpone that matter until I get a VP30 in the first place...

you can send me a PM for a possible VP30/ABT102 combo and just email Moosmann (Markus) for about any custom cable you need. Has to have some advantages to be from around munich

[emphatic]

Anyone know if I would need a sync polarity switch thing to use this with the CraftyMech Mini-SLG like I would with the SLG3000? I have the SLG3000 already, but if the CraftyMech one would work without the hassle of building a custom circuit, I would gladly buy a Mini-SLG to get scanline action with this.

[emphatic]

Bumping this as I on a whim hooked it up to my Panasonic plasma with my SLG-3000 today. I get working scanlines, so what's the deal with having to use a polarity switch? I don't have the Plus version, mine is just called Cinemateq Picture Optimizer btw.

[fagin]

Bumping this as I on a whim hooked it up to my Panasonic plasma with my SLG-3000 today. I get working scanlines, so what's the deal with having to use a polarity switch? I don't have the Plus version, mine is just called Cinemateq Picture Optimizer btw.

What output resolution do you have the CPO set to?

I also have one of the original pre-prod versions of the SLG. Things may have slightly changed since pre-prod versions, which also may have an impact.

[emphatic]

What output resolution do you have the CPO set to?

I also have one of the original pre-prod versions of the SLG. Things may have slightly changed since pre-prod versions, which also may have an impact.

I'll try to check further this evening when the rest of the family is sleeping. When it's not working, what am I to look for (except the absence of scanlines)? I was just flipping through the modes with my remote, not really paying attention to the resolutions. The game was Progear .

My SLG looks like this:

[emphatic]

I tested this again, and it's the default setting I'm using, SVGA, so the scanlines might be too thin?