NESRGB board available now

[kamiboy]

Wrong, composite sync is raw sync.

Composite video on the other hand...

[rCadeGaming]

Not sure, but it sounds like Jeppen is thinking there is a difference between composite sync and "raw sync." There's not. Raw sync just refers to using a pure composite sync signal as opposed to using composite video (which contains composite sync in addition to the color picture signal) as the sync signal.

I suppose raw sync could also refer to separate horizontal and vertical sync signals. I guess it's just not "raw" if the sync signal is mixed on the same line with color info, such as in composite video, S-video (sync on luma), or RGsB (sync-on-green).

(but yeah, it's kind of a BS term, like "high definition")

EDIT: also just saw last two posts after typing. Leonk, no that's not right. Agreed with kamiboy.

[mickcris]

I can't help but get a little annoyed when people refer to composite sync as "raw sync", I don't know about the rest of you guys...

From all the reading I did on the subject, I think raw sync is not composite sync ..

composite sync = simple composite signal - you can feed this straight into your TV as composite video and see it fine
raw sync = composite sync with the video signal stripped out (or never inserted in the first place like in VGA's HV pins)

raw sync is composite sync. normal sync is composite video sync. It can be confusing.


I aslo just tested my NESRGB that has an SNES connector with composite video sync and composite sync hooked up. I also have both cables for this. Both cables work with default setting of 9 for the sync level on the xrgb mini. So im not sure what was different in the setup that game-tech was using in the video, but on mine there are zero issues using composite video sync.

[Jeppen]

Not sure, but it sounds like Jeppen is thinking there is a difference between composite sync and "raw sync." There's not. Raw sync just refers to using a pure composite sync signal as opposed to using composite video (which contains composite sync in addition to the color picture signal) as the sync signal.

I suppose raw sync could also refer to separate horizontal and vertical sync signals. I guess it's just not "raw" if the sync signal is mixed on the same line with color info, such as in composite video, S-video (sync on luma), or RGsB (sync-on-green).

(but yeah, it's kind of a BS term, like "high definition")

EDIT: also just saw last two posts after typing. Leonk, no that's not right. Agreed with kamiboy.

*Edit*
It's funny how the brain works, when you said composite sync, I was thinking composite video and composite sync being short for composite video sync, which it isn't, since they are different.

[rCadeGaming]

Oh man, "normal sync" is an even worse BS term than "raw sync." Let's just to say composite video and composite sync to be clear and accurate.

Composite video = color information combined with sync pulses
Composite sync = sync pulses only

[opt2not]

DISCLAIMER
In this post the following means the following:
Regular sync = Composite Video
Raw sync = Composite Sync

fixed for you.

[mickcris]

Oh man, "normal sync" is an even worse BS term than "raw sync." Let's just to say composite video and composite sync to be clear and accurate.

Composite video = color information combined with sync pulses
Composite sync = sync pulses only

I think people tried to coin other terms for them due to the names being so similar, but just added to the confusion. But they are all over the net with these different names so there is probably no stopping the alternate names now.

[rCadeGaming]

Yeah, I just mean we can at least be clear in this discussion/thread/whatever. There's certainly no hope of combating all the misinformation across the internet.

btw, I wouldn't say "composite video sync" either as that sounds like something different as well. I think composite video as sync is accurate.

[Jeppen]

haha this reminds me of this scene in Airplane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y

[rCadeGaming]

Anyhow, that article kind of sucks, as it doesn't really explain what sync actually is.

A CRT literally draws each frame of the visible picture onto the screen in individual lines using a beam of electrons. Each line is drawn from left to right, in order, from top to bottom. The color information is just a continuous stream of fluctuating values though; it needs something to tell it where each line and each frame should end though.

At the end of each line, the horizontal sync pulse occurs to tell the CRT's electron beam to jump back to the left side of the screen and start the next line. At the end of each frame, the vertical sync pulse occurs to tell it to jump back to the top of the screen and start the next frame.

(That is the gist of it for progressive scanned video. For interlaced, just replace from the word frame with field, and know that two fields are scanned to make up each full frame, first a field of the "odd lines" then one of the "even lines")

The horizontal and vertical sync pulses can be given their own lines to pass their signals on (seperate sync, as in RGBHV or "VGA"), they can be combined on one line (composite sync, as in RGBS), or they can combined in the same line with color information (as in composite video, sync on luma, or sync-on-green).

[rCadeGaming]

haha this reminds me of this scene in Airplane.

Shirley you can't be serious.

[Jeppen]

haha this reminds me of this scene in Airplane.

Shirley you can't be serious.

I am serious, and don't call me Surely.

[mufunyo]

(That is the gist of it for progressive scanned video. For interlaced, just replace from the word frame with field, and know that two fields are scanned to make up each full frame, first a field of the "odd lines" then one of the "even lines")

It's actually not that much more complicated for interlaced video. A CRT doesn't really treat an interlaced signal that much differently than a progressive signal. As far as the monitor is concerned, an interlaced field is the same thing as a progressive frame, the sync is just timed to have every other field shifted down half a line so it effectively scans "in between" the previous drawn lines. A CRT beam is fat though, so they overlap, and persistence of vision takes care of the rest.

[rCadeGaming]

Yup, in NTSC 480i the vertical sync pulse occurs every 262 and a half lines.

[game-tech.us]

I aslo just tested my NESRGB that has an SNES connector with composite video sync and composite sync hooked up. I also have both cables for this. Both cables work with default setting of 9 for the sync level on the xrgb mini. So im not sure what was different in the setup that game-tech was using in the video, but on mine there are zero issues using composite video sync.

I assume you also didn't remove any caps from the nesrgb board?
Has anyone? Is it necessary?
I kept hearing that it was needed, but i've yet to really define when.
It also could be that I was not using the mini correctly. IE what is the proper sequence to change the level and check that it made any difference or does it 'apply' the level change as soon as you hit the up/down (left/right?) keys?

[mickcris]

I aslo just tested my NESRGB that has an SNES connector with composite video sync and composite sync hooked up. I also have both cables for this. Both cables work with default setting of 9 for the sync level on the xrgb mini. So im not sure what was different in the setup that game-tech was using in the video, but on mine there are zero issues using composite video sync.

I assume you also didn't remove any caps from the nesrgb board?
Has anyone? Is it necessary?
I kept hearing that it was needed, but i've yet to really define when.
It also could be that I was not using the mini correctly. IE what is the proper sequence to change the level and check that it made any difference or does it 'apply' the level change as soon as you hit the up/down (left/right?) keys?

You installed mine. Its the console from your 2nd NESRGB video. I assume you did the one from your 3rd video the exact same way. It works perfectly on my xrgb mini which is why i was assuming there was a setting issue with the one you were using. possibly the owner of that mini changed something that was causing it not to work? I was just wanting to let Jeppen know that it works fine with the mini as he got the impression from you video that it would not work.

you may need to exit out of the settings menu to get the new sync level to stick. I dont quite remember. The only console that it needed to be adjusted for was the PC10 RGB modded nes that you did for me (which i no longer have).

I thought the issue with the caps were that there are now 2 in series with each other if you also have them in the scart cable. So that would lower the capacitance and possibly cause an issue.

[leonk]

I removed the 3 caps from my NESRGB and jumped the points with solder. This is needed if you use a standard SCART cable with caps in it (eg share cable between nes and snes with Nintendo multiAV port)

[game-tech.us]

I removed the 3 caps from my NESRGB and jumped the points with solder. This is needed if you use a standard SCART cable with caps in it (eg share cable between nes and snes with Nintendo multiAV port)

I've used few different sets of scart cables and I think most if not all had caps in them and i've not had any issue leaving the caps on the nesrgb boards as well...

[game-tech.us]

I aslo just tested my NESRGB that has an SNES connector with composite video sync and composite sync hooked up. I also have both cables for this. Both cables work with default setting of 9 for the sync level on the xrgb mini. So im not sure what was different in the setup that game-tech was using in the video, but on mine there are zero issues using composite video sync.

I assume you also didn't remove any caps from the nesrgb board?
Has anyone? Is it necessary?
I kept hearing that it was needed, but i've yet to really define when.
It also could be that I was not using the mini correctly. IE what is the proper sequence to change the level and check that it made any difference or does it 'apply' the level change as soon as you hit the up/down (left/right?) keys?

You installed mine. Its the console from your 2nd NESRGB video. I assume you did the one from your 3rd video the exact same way. It works perfectly on my xrgb mini which is why i was assuming there was a setting issue with the one you were using. possibly the owner of that mini changed something that was causing it not to work? I was just wanting to let Jeppen know that it works fine with the mini as he got the impression from you video that it would not work.

you may need to exit out of the settings menu to get the new sync level to stick. I dont quite remember. The only console that it needed to be adjusted for was the PC10 RGB modded nes that you did for me (which i no longer have).

I thought the issue with the caps were that there are now 2 in series with each other if you also have them in the scart cable. So that would lower the capacitance and possibly cause an issue.

Yeah i've done them all the same way except the last one had csync ran to both csync and composite video pins on the multi to get it to work on the mini.
Pretty sure I exited out of the menu and all kinds of different ways to try to get a level change to make a difference.

[mickcris]

Yeah i've done them all the same way except the last one had csync ran to both csync and composite video pins on the multi to get it to work on the mini.
Pretty sure I exited out of the menu and all kinds of different ways to try to get a level change to make a difference.

It may have been some other setting or a cable then. When I tried it on mine with my cable that uses composite video as sync, it worked with the default setting of 9 on the sync level. I did not have to change anything. The only difference in cables would have been the adapter for the mini as I was using the same scart cable as you I think (from retro_accessories). Possibly something with it was causing the issue? I bought one from her with the sync stripper in it and had to remove it cause I was getting no signal. I think my consoles were not putting out the 5v needed to power the circuit. But you bypassed the one in the video with a switch, so I don't know.

[ApolloBoy]

I removed the 3 caps from my NESRGB and jumped the points with solder. This is needed if you use a standard SCART cable with caps in it (eg share cable between nes and snes with Nintendo multiAV port)

I'm looking to use a Genesis/SMS SCART cable with my Twin Fami once it arrives, and I know I'll need to not only remove the caps but also the 75 ohm resistors for the RGB lines. How'd you remove the caps without risking damage to the NESRGB?

[eightbitminiboss]

I removed the 3 caps from my NESRGB and jumped the points with solder. This is needed if you use a standard SCART cable with caps in it (eg share cable between nes and snes with Nintendo multiAV port)

I'm looking to use a Genesis/SMS SCART cable with my Twin Fami once it arrives, and I know I'll need to not only remove the caps but also the 75 ohm resistors for the RGB lines. How'd you remove the caps without risking damage to the NESRGB?

I used to use desoldering braid for SMD resistors using a conical tip on the iron in my previous technician position. Seemed to the job just fine. The resistors on the NESRGB are bigger than I was working with so I can't imagine it being anymore difficult.

[ApolloBoy]

I removed the 3 caps from my NESRGB and jumped the points with solder. This is needed if you use a standard SCART cable with caps in it (eg share cable between nes and snes with Nintendo multiAV port)

I'm looking to use a Genesis/SMS SCART cable with my Twin Fami once it arrives, and I know I'll need to not only remove the caps but also the 75 ohm resistors for the RGB lines. How'd you remove the caps without risking damage to the NESRGB?

I used to use desoldering braid for SMD resistors using a conical tip on the iron in my previous technician position. Seemed to the job just fine.

Ah OK, that's the part I was most worried about. I've got both so it should be no problem then.

[Elrinth]

@Jeppen: It's important that you understand that setting the sync level setting on the framemeister will make the difference of getting an image or getting a "NO SIGNAL" message.
Not the amount of jailbars you get. On my Mega Drive PAL I had to set a special sync level before I had any "good" image. It was like greyscale and crappy if I had wrong sync level. But if I remember correctly that was only with the composite cables, with the rgb cable it's only image or no image.

[CkRtech]

Yeah i've done them all the same way except the last one had csync ran to both csync and composite video pins on the multi to get it to work on the mini.
Pretty sure I exited out of the menu and all kinds of different ways to try to get a level change to make a difference.

It may have been some other setting or a cable then. When I tried it on mine with my cable that uses composite video as sync, it worked with the default setting of 9 on the sync level. I did not have to change anything. The only difference in cables would have been the adapter for the mini as I was using the same scart cable as you I think (from retro_accessories). Possibly something with it was causing the issue? I bought one from her with the sync stripper in it and had to remove it cause I was getting no signal. I think my consoles were not putting out the 5v needed to power the circuit. But you bypassed the one in the video with a switch, so I don't know.

Perhaps someone can verify, but I believe that xrgb-mini firmware revision 1.08+ supposedly added better compatibility with sync so that external, manual sync stripping is no longer required. (Or at least that is what Retro Gaming Cables claims inside the Technical Information box of some of their adapter cables.)

[mickcris]

Yeah i've done them all the same way except the last one had csync ran to both csync and composite video pins on the multi to get it to work on the mini.
Pretty sure I exited out of the menu and all kinds of different ways to try to get a level change to make a difference.

It may have been some other setting or a cable then. When I tried it on mine with my cable that uses composite video as sync, it worked with the default setting of 9 on the sync level. I did not have to change anything. The only difference in cables would have been the adapter for the mini as I was using the same scart cable as you I think (from retro_accessories). Possibly something with it was causing the issue? I bought one from her with the sync stripper in it and had to remove it cause I was getting no signal. I think my consoles were not putting out the 5v needed to power the circuit. But you bypassed the one in the video with a switch, so I don't know.

Perhaps someone can verify, but I believe that xrgb-mini firmware revision 1.08+ supposedly added better compatibility with sync so that external, manual sync stripping is no longer required. (Or at least that is what Retro Gaming Cables claims inside the Technical Information box of some of their adapter cables.)

Maybe they mean 1.06. 1.06 is the revision that added the sync level menu item. These are the only changes listed on the website for 1.08:

1.08 updates XRGB-mini CPU Ver
• Press the safety button, Fixed the display position is shifted to the right.

· Added option to RGB_AUDIO.
By, for example, if the voice is not on the 21-pin input, is set to "AUDIO" the RGB_AUDIO, 21 pin video, you will be able to use from the RCA inputs on the front panel audio.

[Elrinth]

Yeah i've done them all the same way except the last one had csync ran to both csync and composite video pins on the multi to get it to work on the mini.
Pretty sure I exited out of the menu and all kinds of different ways to try to get a level change to make a difference.

It may have been some other setting or a cable then. When I tried it on mine with my cable that uses composite video as sync, it worked with the default setting of 9 on the sync level. I did not have to change anything. The only difference in cables would have been the adapter for the mini as I was using the same scart cable as you I think (from retro_accessories). Possibly something with it was causing the issue? I bought one from her with the sync stripper in it and had to remove it cause I was getting no signal. I think my consoles were not putting out the 5v needed to power the circuit. But you bypassed the one in the video with a switch, so I don't know.

Perhaps someone can verify, but I believe that xrgb-mini firmware revision 1.08+ supposedly added better compatibility with sync so that external, manual sync stripping is no longer required. (Or at least that is what Retro Gaming Cables claims inside the Technical Information box of some of their adapter cables.)

yes I noticed this too! Latest version of the xrgb-mini is much better with the synclevels. I guess turning it back to auto is okay now

[Voultar]

I just received an E-mail from Tim stating that my order has been shipped!!

Thanks Tim!! Woohoo!!!

[ApolloBoy]

Got mine as well!

[Jeppen]

I aslo just tested my NESRGB that has an SNES connector with composite video sync and composite sync hooked up. I also have both cables for this. Both cables work with default setting of 9 for the sync level on the xrgb mini. So im not sure what was different in the setup that game-tech was using in the video, but on mine there are zero issues using composite video sync.

I assume you also didn't remove any caps from the nesrgb board?
Has anyone? Is it necessary?
I kept hearing that it was needed, but i've yet to really define when.
It also could be that I was not using the mini correctly. IE what is the proper sequence to change the level and check that it made any difference or does it 'apply' the level change as soon as you hit the up/down (left/right?) keys?

You installed mine. Its the console from your 2nd NESRGB video. I assume you did the one from your 3rd video the exact same way. It works perfectly on my xrgb mini which is why i was assuming there was a setting issue with the one you were using. possibly the owner of that mini changed something that was causing it not to work? I was just wanting to let Jeppen know that it works fine with the mini as he got the impression from you video that it would not work.

you may need to exit out of the settings menu to get the new sync level to stick. I dont quite remember. The only console that it needed to be adjusted for was the PC10 RGB modded nes that you did for me (which i no longer have).

I thought the issue with the caps were that there are now 2 in series with each other if you also have them in the scart cable. So that would lower the capacitance and possibly cause an issue.

Thanks! I really appreciate it. I mean I saw in Game-tech's video that it worked, just wasn't sure if I needed to Frankenstein something to make it work. Now I know, thanks.

@Jeppen: It's important that you understand that setting the sync level setting on the framemeister will make the difference of getting an image or getting a "NO SIGNAL" message.
Not the amount of jailbars you get. On my Mega Drive PAL I had to set a special sync level before I had any "good" image. It was like greyscale and crappy if I had wrong sync level. But if I remember correctly that was only with the composite cables, with the rgb cable it's only image or no image.

Wow ok, that's interesting and seems to be a pretty powerful tool, definitely the first thing I will try if it doesn't work straight out of the "box". Thanks!!