Saint Dragon gameplay questions

[rcoltrane]

I'm playing Saint Dragon using MAME latest version (0.152) and there are a few game behaviors that I would like to confirm with someone here who has an original Saint Dragon PCB (I have it but I can't turn it on because I don't have the wiring harness). Here we go:

- After inserting a coin, the 1p start screen comes up. Do the texts keep moving left/right while the game is waiting you to press 1p start button? With current MAME version, all texts stands still in the middle of the screen with no moving patterns at all. However, in previous MAME versions, these texts were moving to the left/right sides of the screen.

- 3rd level Boss: This is what we are currently debating into MAMETESTERS forum for quite some time now. The 3rd level boss is not coming out to fight you at the end of the level. Instead, the screen fades to black and you go straight to level 4 without fighting the boss. Some people claim (and I remember I did it in older MAME versions too) that the 3rd level boss appears and fights you, but it's not happening now. What we need is that someone who has the real PCB to play it to the end of the 3rd level using multiple coins and check if the boss is going to show up. If it shows up, then we know we have a bug in MAME emulation, otherwise, it's going to be very hard to know what's going on for real.

Or if you remember playing it back in the day it was released, just let me know which ones are the correct behaviors in both situations. Thanks! RC.

[Pretas]

Would the PC-Engine port be an acceptable reference for these behaviors?

[system11]

Text definitely scrolls repeatedly.

PCB has a bug where sometimes stage 1 appears and fades out then fades in again, I've seen it only on freeplay.

I can't get to stage 3, so.... Oh well. Actually the one I could test this on was posted to a new owner just this morning, and my other one is deep in the storage racks.

[CStarFlare]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 49#p606949

Regarding stage 3.

[rcoltrane]

Text definitely scrolls repeatedly.

PCB has a bug where sometimes stage 1 appears and fades out then fades in again, I've seen it only on freeplay.

I can't get to stage 3, so.... Oh well. Actually the one I could test this on was posted to a new owner just this morning, and my other one is deep in the storage racks.

Thanks for the info regarding the 1p start screen. So here, MAME has definitely a bug! I'll report that over MAMETESTERS.

But yes, you can make it, it just requires some practice. Put the game on easy mode, where the bullets fly slower to memorize their patterns and after that, you can beat
at least the first two levels with a single coin (even with a single life).

Would the PC-Engine port be an acceptable reference for these behaviors?

Sorry, but no. It has to be the original arcade version.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 49#p606949

Regarding stage 3.

In that topic, they say tht the 3rd boss won't show up if you don't destroy any of the big structures that comes a little before the 3rd boss. But I'm not sure if that is true because I've destroyed one of them before and the boss didn't show up too.

So the PCB tests are still needed. Thanks for your replies people and keep shmup.

[MJR]

In that topic, they say tht the 3rd boss won't show up if you don't destroy any of the big structures that comes a little before the 3rd boss. But I'm not sure if that is true because I've destroyed one of them before and the boss didn't show up too.

So the PCB tests are still needed. Thanks for your replies people and keep shmup.

I said it originally, and it is true. Destroying one of the structures is not enough, you have to destroy at least 2 or 3.

About the text in start screen, I think it does move left and right, but I think it was kind of scanlined effect. My memory may be faulty on this, gotta check sometimes.

[rcoltrane]

In that topic, they say tht the 3rd boss won't show up if you don't destroy any of the big structures that comes a little before the 3rd boss. But I'm not sure if that is true because I've destroyed one of them before and the boss didn't show up too.

So the PCB tests are still needed. Thanks for your replies people and keep shmup.

I said it originally, and it is true. Destroying one of the structures is not enough, you have to destroy at least 2 or 3.

Ok, nailed it people! I've figured out that you actually don't need to destroy all of those big structures. The game does not compute how many of those you destroy. The trigger to make the 3rd Boss to show up is to destroy the 6th structure only (last one before the boss). I've used an invincibility MAME cheat and tested it several times destroying each structure separately and some combinations. After that, I figured out that the last one alone triggers the boss.

Regarding the 1p start screen moving text, it's not just a raster effect, the text goes entirely off screen, one time to the left and one time to the right until you press start. This behavior would be nice to confirm in a real PCB because current MAME displays the text centered on screen without any movement.

[trap15]

Dunno what you think a raster effect is, but it certainly sounds like a raster effect to me

[MJR]

In that topic, they say tht the 3rd boss won't show up if you don't destroy any of the big structures that comes a little before the 3rd boss. But I'm not sure if that is true because I've destroyed one of them before and the boss didn't show up too.

So the PCB tests are still needed. Thanks for your replies people and keep shmup.

I said it originally, and it is true. Destroying one of the structures is not enough, you have to destroy at least 2 or 3.

Ok, nailed it people! I've figured out that you actually don't need to destroy all of those big structures. The game does not compute how many of those you destroy. The trigger to make the 3rd Boss to show up is to destroy the 6th structure only (last one before the boss). I've used an invincibility MAME cheat and tested it several times destroying each structure separately and some combinations. After that, I figured out that the last one alone triggers the boss.

Regarding the 1p start screen moving text, it's not just a raster effect, the text goes entirely off screen, one time to the left and one time to the right until you press start. This behavior would be nice to confirm in a real PCB because current MAME displays the text centered on screen without any movement.

Sorry, but I'm 99.99% sure that I have activated it without destroying the last structure
I can double check it, if I can be bothered to change the boards on my cabinet this weekend.

[rcoltrane]

Sorry, but I'm 99.99% sure that I have activated it without destroying the last structure
I can double check it, if I can be bothered to change the boards on my cabinet this weekend.

Heh, if this is true then there's another combination that I missed. Be my guest to find which one triggers it too without destroying the last one. I tested destroying 2+ and 3+ of them and the boss didn't appear, so it seems not to be a quantity trigger here.

[system11]

Regarding the 1p start screen moving text, it's not just a raster effect, the text goes entirely off screen, one time to the left and one time to the right until you press start. This behavior would be nice to confirm in a real PCB because current MAME displays the text centered on screen without any movement.

As I said, on a PCB it scrolls. I'll try to dig my other PCB out this weekend and make a crappy phonecam video.

[rcoltrane]

Ok, no need of that video anymore system11, it has been proven to be a bug in MAME, I've reported it over MAMETesters already and hopefully it will be fixed soon.

Now, regarding the 3rd level boss, we still need someone who has the original PCB to play it to the end of the 3rd level to check if the boss show up without destroying those big structures. This still needs to be confirmed as a bug in the original PCB or not.

Thanks people

[system11]

Well since I had another PCB arrive:

Stage 3 destroy random structures: boss appeared
Stage 3 destroy no structures: boss appeared

Looks like you have another bug to find. This was a JP board with split ROMs.

[rcoltrane]

Thanks a lot for your tests System11, I've opened a new ticket over MAMEtesters and hopefully we will have it fixed soon.

[MJR]

Thats interesting since my PCB certainly does not work that way.

I wonder if it has anything to do with difficulty/DIP settings?

[rcoltrane]

Thats interesting since my PCB certainly does not work that way.

I wonder if it has anything to do with difficulty/DIP settings?

I don't think it's related to difficulty settings, at least not in MAME. I did several tests in MAME with different difficulty settings and it didn't change anything regarding the 3rd boss. Does your pcb allow you to skip the 3rd boss?