NESRGB board available now

[cyborc]

Yes. Do you see at the top of the pause screen (weapon selection box) as well?

It's definitely the game. I tested on an emulator running at native resolution on a crt and the flickering lines you described are there.

[evil_ash_xero]

I can vouch for that as well. I play Mega Man 3 on my Wii, using an emulator(on a CRT), and those flickering lines are there.

They are also on Little Nemo(another Capcom game). Even when played on my unmodded NES. So, maybe it was a Capcom thing.

[ninn]

Any idea how many NESRGB boards were for sale in the second batch?
Just curious ...

Hope the boards make tim as happy as they made us happy.

[Jeppen]

I have one question about the NESRGB though. On Mega Man 3 there is a graphical glitch with a flashing horizontal line of garbage visible on the right side of the screen, partway down from the top. This can be seen on the level select screen and the pause menu. This is only in Mega Man 3 though, not 1 or 2, and I haven't seen any problems in any other games. I can't remember if it was like that before modding. Is anyone else seeing this? I'm just wondering if it could be a problem with my installation, or if everyone using the NESRGB is seeing this, or if it is just a problem with the game and it's like that whether using the NESRGB or not.

I googled this earlier today before seeing this post It seems it is a limitation within the NES, this especially occurs when the screen separated (ie. screen panning going in different directions).

This is on all machines and all Mega Man 3, hard to believe they'd release something like that, but it seems to be that way.

Same goes for screens flickering, it's a sprite limitation (hardware limit) if i understood it right, that also occurs on all machines and all Mega Man 3.

[Zets13]

There is a similar flickering line on the SMB3 title screen. And the little flickery lines in SMB. And the discolored squares on the edge of the screen when scrolling on certain games. Some of the many joys of old hardware.

[rCadeGaming]

Ok, I thought that might be the case. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't my system, thanks.

[lettuce]

i ordered this 8 pin Mini-Din (male both ends) to go from standard NESRGB straight into the XRGB-mini, would that work?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8-Pin-mini-di ... 1e7d77bb54

Or would i need to mod the cable in anyway?

Sadly not!!. I got one of those cable and just cut the end of to add a scart plug. Here's the what the wires are.....

IMAGE REMOVED AT THE REQUEST OF VILETIM

[darcagn]

What happened that it didn't work? It should... As far as I know, pins on an 8-pin mini-din connector like this should all be straight-through.

I'll likely be doing a scart connector anyway, as I want to keep audio and video wires separate, but I don't see a reason why it wouldn't just work...

[lettuce]

What happened that it didn't work? It should... As far as I know, pins on an 8-pin mini-din connector like this should all be straight-through.

I'll likely be doing a scart connector anyway, as I want to keep audio and video wires separate, but I don't see a reason why it wouldn't just work...

Yeah im not sure the pinouts of both the nesrgb mini din socket and the XRGB-Mini do seem to match up, so not sure why i didnt get a picture, but i was wanting to use a scart socket anyways. Least it makes it easy for people who want to do the same now, by referring to the pic above.

Regarding the video and audio, im using just the 1 cable and i dont get an interference on from the audio channels at all, when running wires from CPU 1&2 on the NES PCB to pads A&B on the NESRGB

[viletim]

Has anyone had theirs ship yet? Mine still says "Payment Received"

Yes, I'm really eager and impatient, haha :D

I think he shipped last time about 2 weeks after orders were placed. May be the same this time also.

Yes, something like that. I should be faster than last time but I have many more orders...

I think Tim said that he planned to make the 12V pump circuit available separately, you can try contacting him about it.

The only reason it's not in the shop yet is that I haven't had a chance to write documentation for it.

I have one question about the NESRGB though. On Mega Man 3 there is a graphical glitch with a flashing horizontal line of garbage visible on the right side of the screen, partway down from the top. This can be seen on the level select screen and the pause menu. This is only in Mega Man 3 though, not 1 or 2, and I haven't seen any problems in any other games. I can't remember if it was like that before modding. Is anyone else seeing this? I'm just wondering if it could be a problem with my installation, or if everyone using the NESRGB is seeing this, or if it is just a problem with the game and it's like that whether using the NESRGB or not.

The NES has a bit more graphical glitching that most other consoles of the era. It's probably a side effect of connecting the video bus to the cartridge connector. When debugging the NESRGB I spent a lot of time switching between original composite and RGB to check which glitches were normal and which were my fault.

i ordered this 8 pin Mini-Din (male both ends) to go from standard NESRGB straight into the XRGB-mini, would that work?

Or would i need to mod the cable in anyway?

If you buy a straight through cable you can connect it directly to the XRGB-mini. It is risky to use some random cable with 8 pin mini din plugs on each end without checking it first. Some cables are intended for old Macintosh printers and these have wires crossed over.

Sadly not!!. I got one of those cable and just cut the end of to add a scart plug. Here's the what the wires are.....

Please take your diagram down. There is no wire colour standard for 8 pin din cables. If you leave it there some lazy bastard will follow this diagram without checking the all connections with a meter and may damage his hardware as a result.

[Vault94]

Is there anyone in the UK, that can do this job for a NES front loader? I'd also like a socket for the pallete switcher too. I'll have all the supplies, I just can't solder and need it doing.

Thanks

- Matt

[Jeppen]

i ordered this 8 pin Mini-Din (male both ends) to go from standard NESRGB straight into the XRGB-mini, would that work?

Or would i need to mod the cable in anyway?

If you buy a straight through cable you can connect it directly to the XRGB-mini. It is risky to use some random cable with 8 pin mini din plugs on each end without checking it first. Some cables are intended for old Macintosh printers and these have wires crossed over.

Ah ok, so if i take two 8 pin mini-din connectors and attached 8 straight (separately shielded) wires going from and too the identical pin on each end, this would work the best?

[RGB32E]

Finally mounted RGB and audio jacks on the back of my NESRGB kitted system. Not ideal, but it works! After mounting the RCA connector for audio (was hanging out of the corner of the case), I noticed there was much more noise in the audio signal! It turns out the voltage regulator PCB radiates a fair amount of noise! This wasn't an issue prior to mounting as the RCA was not near the PCB. I ended up moving the voltage regulator one screw hole over towards the RF box, and audio became virtually silent again. Hence, keep the voltage regulator PCB away from audio wiring! I'm using a fully shielded mini coax cable from the kit to the RCA, but that still didn't make a difference!

[CkRtech]

Good to know, and it makes sense. I'll go that same route once my kit arrives. Thanks, RGB32E.

On a semi-related note, I created a thread a couple of weeks back regarding custom cables. http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48591

I think you were one of the main users I thought might have some good thoughts to share (if you have a moment).

Really looking forward to this kit, guys.

[Jeppen]

Is the NESRGB kit doing anything to audio output?

I'm wanting to do a stereo mod on my NES-001 when i receive the NESRGB.

[Jeppen]

Ok i figured i'd better make a detailed post on this.

To make a stereo mod you'd traditionally do this:

Code: Select all

CPU pin 1 + 2 -> wired -> One 1 μF caps each -> single turn pot (to mix/sep stereo channels) -> two RCA jacks.

Does this still apply to the NESRGB board just that instead of using the CPU legs we go via the NESRGB plates A + B?


(picture i found in this thread)

[Strider77]

Can anyone recommend a modder in the USA? I have a AV Famicom that I'd like to have this installed into. Have had this system and a playchoice chip lying around for quite some time. Now that this is out I'll just go this route and sell the chip I've had lying around.

[ApolloBoy]

Can anyone recommend a modder in the USA? I have a AV Famicom that I'd like to have this installed into. Have had this system and a playchoice chip lying around for quite some time. Now that this is out I'll just go this route and sell the chip I've had lying around.

I'd be willing to take a crack at it. Send me a PM and we'll work something out.

[Jeppen]

UPDATE ON THE EBAY 8 pin MINI-DIN

I just got it and just like Viletim and Lettuce said, the wires were all wrong.
There were like 1 or 2 pins that actually went straight to the next connector, the rest were cross wired ending up on a totally different pin.

So i'll be making my own i think, just to be sure it's wired right and straight from pin 1 to pin 1, pin 2 to pin 2, etc...
Since the NESRGB 8 pin mini-din connector is based on the XRGB-mini schematic, that should work right?

[mickcris]

UPDATE ON THE EBAY 8 pin MINI-DIN

I just got it and just like Viletim and Lettuce said, the wires were all wrong.
There were like 1 or 2 pins that actually went straight to the next connector, the rest were cross wired ending up on a totally different pin.

So i'll be making my own i think, just to be sure it's wired right and straight from pin 1 to pin 1, pin 2 to pin 2, etc...
Since the NESRGB 8 pin mini-din connector is based on the XRGB-mini schematic, that should work right?

You could just cut the cable in the middle and splice the wires back together so they all go straight through.

[Shining]

Obviously there are plenty that have already modded their NES consoles with a Playchoice 10 PPU, but hopefully some would consider Tim's mod and find a way to cycle the PC10 PPU back out into the arcade community. Granted, those users would lose money.

I'll be doing that. I don't really care about loosing money, since I modified the system myself and I didn't pay overprice for the PPU. Tim's mod is a much better choice than the Playchoice PPU anyway since it uses the correct color palette.
Unfortunately I don't have the original PPU from my NES anymore, so I either have to buy another US NES or hold off and wait for the Universal PPU project instead.

We're kind of in the same boat. I have an RGB modded AV Famicom (Playchoice PPU) that i'd rather not sell because the system itself was bought brand new. I still have the original composite PPU so i guess it can be re-installed togheter with the NESRGB board. Or maybe i should wait and see what happens to the the Universal PPU project. Hm, i'll have to talk to Moosmann about this.

[Jeppen]

UPDATE ON THE EBAY 8 pin MINI-DIN

I just got it and just like Viletim and Lettuce said, the wires were all wrong.
There were like 1 or 2 pins that actually went straight to the next connector, the rest were cross wired ending up on a totally different pin.

So i'll be making my own i think, just to be sure it's wired right and straight from pin 1 to pin 1, pin 2 to pin 2, etc...
Since the NESRGB 8 pin mini-din connector is based on the XRGB-mini schematic, that should work right?

You could just cut the cable in the middle and splice the wires back together so they all go straight through.

Hey, i like your style I'll do that!

[darcagn]

Obviously there are plenty that have already modded their NES consoles with a Playchoice 10 PPU, but hopefully some would consider Tim's mod and find a way to cycle the PC10 PPU back out into the arcade community. Granted, those users would lose money.

I'll be doing that. I don't really care about loosing money, since I modified the system myself and I didn't pay overprice for the PPU. Tim's mod is a much better choice than the Playchoice PPU anyway since it uses the correct color palette.
Unfortunately I don't have the original PPU from my NES anymore, so I either have to buy another US NES or hold off and wait for the Universal PPU project instead.

We're kind of in the same boat. I have an RGB modded AV Famicom (Playchoice PPU) that i'd rather not sell because the system itself was bought brand new. I still have the original composite PPU so i guess it can be re-installed togheter with the NESRGB board. Or maybe i should wait and see what happens to the the Universal PPU project. Hm, i'll have to talk to Moosmann about this.

I would personally jump for the NESRGB board now. I've been following the UniversalPPU project for quite some time, and I'm still excited about it, but the NESRGB should meet all the needs of most people.

Compared to the NESRGB, here are the advantages to the UniversalPPU:
- UniversalPPU can be used in any NTSC or PAL NES, Famicom, PlayChoice 10, or Versus systems
- UniversalPPU is a full PPU replacement and does not need an existing real PPU to function
- UniversalPPU can have its firmware and palettes updated, palettes are user configurable
- UniversalPPU can output VGA, RGB, YPbPr/Component, S-Video, and Composite

What really sticks out here to me is
- since it's a full PPU replacement, installation should be slightly easier since you can desolder the composite PPU without worrying about salvaging it
- Component support means American users don't need to have an RGB->YPbPr converter box
- VGA support means users with a TV with a VGA port might not need an upscaler for lag-free play, as some TVs can display VGA signals natively without processing (this may depend on the signal's resolution, however, I'm not sure)

However, the UniversalPPU hasn't been finalized, so 1) we don't know how much it will cost, and IMO it will likely cost much more than the NESRGB, 2) we don't know if it will be released as a standalone product, a kit, or both, and IMO the fact that the NESRGB comes as a kit with accessories is really, really nice, 3) we don't know if it will support swapping palettes on the fly, like the NESRGB does with its included palette switch, and 4) of course, the NESRGB is available now, and the UniversalPPU hasn't had a release date announced yet.

As I'm already an RGB fanatic, I already have the necessary equipment for it, and thus I'm jumping for the NESRGB now. It will likely be very easy to switch out to a UniversalPPU in the future if it turns out to be worth it, but I think I will likely be just fine with the NESRGB kit.

[leonk]

The ***MAJOR*** flaw with the Universal PPU is that it simulates the PPU on an FPGA. It's only going to be as good as the hardware simulator (note I'm trying to avoid saying emulator). I too was following the DEV of the universal PPU, and wish it luck. But I don't believe it's going to be as "good" as the NESRGB out the gate.

There's going to be games that the Universal PPU dev didn't test and will require to create firmware updates. As with any simulator/emulator, it's not going to be 100% perfect on day 1. AND, it might never be perfect (think NES clones, PC emulators and Flash carts aren't perfect even in 2014!!)

By avoiding simulating the PPU, and rather using a real PPU as a "slave", Tim's approach is very novel!! It avoids all the flaws of a simulator. We know that its simplicity itself here that lends to a perfect working solution on day 1.

As for RGB, component, Svideo, composite, etc. The NESRGB supports all those (well, except for component.. but it's easy to translate VGA to component.. lots of cheap devices on eBay to do that perfectly for you). The NESRGB also does a great job of cleaning up and amplifying the Audio.. Something the Universal PPU ignores.

As far as I'm concerned, the NESRGB is one of those rare devices that were polished to perfection before GA rather than iterate over with customer time and money.

[Elrinth]

Hi!

I was only a few hours away from bidding on a PlayChoice-10 board with the PPU required for RGB mod when I decided to do some googling on NES rgb mods once again.
So I found myself to tim's site and check the price... It was actually pretty reasonable for me. I threw away an order on his site + his rgb-cable.
I've got a sharp twin famicom. I'm wondering if anyone with a sharp twin fami here did this mod yet? Was it hard? Much to solder etc?

[eightbitminiboss]

Hi!

I was only a few hours away from bidding on a PlayChoice-10 board with the PPU required for RGB mod when I decided to do some googling on NES rgb mods once again.
So I found myself to tim's site and check the price... It was actually pretty reasonable for me. I threw away an order on his site + his rgb-cable.
I've got a sharp twin famicom. I'm wondering if anyone with a sharp twin fami here did this mod yet? Was it hard? Much to solder etc?

It'll be just as much soldering and work, just everything is done on the underside of the main board instead of the top. Make sure you ordered the adapter board for that.

[darcagn]

The ***MAJOR*** flaw with the Universal PPU is that it simulates the PPU on an FPGA. It's only going to be as good as the hardware simulator (note I'm trying to avoid saying emulator). I too was following the DEV of the universal PPU, and wish it luck. But I don't believe it's going to be as "good" as the NESRGB out the gate.

There's going to be games that the Universal PPU dev didn't test and will require to create firmware updates. As with any simulator/emulator, it's not going to be 100% perfect on day 1. AND, it might never be perfect (think NES clones, PC emulators and Flash carts aren't perfect even in 2014!!)

By avoiding simulating the PPU, and rather using a real PPU as a "slave", Tim's approach is very novel!! It avoids all the flaws of a simulator. We know that its simplicity itself here that lends to a perfect working solution on day 1.

It can be seen as a flaw, but it can also be seen as an advantage. For example, the UniversalPPU could theoretically have an option to bypass the original NES PPU's 8 sprites per line limitation, which would eliminate sprite flickering. I don't know if this is actually possible in practice, but it should be.

Granted, I agree with you on principle, but I think you overestimate the flaws the UniversalPPU may have out of the gate. The biggest problem flashcarts and emulators is supporting 100+ mappers. The NES PPU is just one extremely well documented component and I think compatibility issues will be cleared up sooner rather than later.

As for RGB, component, Svideo, composite, etc. The NESRGB supports all those (well, except for component.. but it's easy to translate VGA to component.. lots of cheap devices on eBay to do that perfectly for you). The NESRGB also does a great job of cleaning up and amplifying the Audio.. Something the Universal PPU ignores.

The NESRGB does not support VGA (31KHz RGBHV), only standard RGB (15KHz RGBS). And of course, Americans are much, much more likely to want Component/VGA, which are missing from the NESRGB, as RGB is non-existent in the consumer space here, and even S-video is rare on most TV equipment at this point.

As far as I'm concerned, the NESRGB is one of those rare devices that were polished to perfection before GA rather than iterate over with customer time and money.

I am impressed with it, and although I haven't yet witnessed one in operation first hand, I agree that it is an excellent product, and I don't think anyone who purchases one is making anything less than a great decision. However, I think the UniversalPPU, once completely mature, has the potential to be a superior product.

[Zets13]

I guess it really depends on what you want out of the device and if the person has a true RGB setup. If you simply want a unit that allows a home console to output clear RGB video to a proper RGB monitor using the original palette, then (from what I can tell without yet using the device ) the NESRGB is as good as it gets. Potentially fixing issues with the NES's limitations could be nice, but it really depends on how authentic you want the experience to be (though I guess having it output RGB at all compromises some of that, lol).

The biggest benefit that you mention is that it doesn't require the original PPU, which will be nice down the line when the original PPUs start going tits-up... though I honestly have no idea what the lifespan is of the original PPUs.

[rCadeGaming]

I live in the US and I don't understand why anyone would want component output from their retro consoles. Most consoles already output RGB without internal modification, so it's much cheaper and simpler to run everything in RGB in your cabling, switching, etc. Then use one RGB to component transcoder just before the TV. To me, it seems that modding all your systems for component is lot of work and money for no real gain.

Of course, the exception is if you only have one or two consoles, but otherwise I don't get it.

[leonk]

Original PPU's were masked-ROM produced in the millions. The majority of them should outlast us.

Apart from composite, most modern TV's and video processors (e.g. Amplifier) lack S-Video, VGA (15 or 31k) and some started killing off component. HDMI has become the defecto standard. Chances are that you will not be connecting the NES to a flat panel display directly (not unless you don't mind the horrible picture you're going to get).

If you do decide to connect to a modern TV, chances are you'll be using something like an X-RGB converter. The best video signal to feed one of these is VGA 15k, and the NESRGB already does that. I don't believe a majority of them even support 31K VGA.

If you do decide to stick to 4:3 CRT technology, your best bet is to pick up a pro broadcast CRT (broadcasters and editing studios are letting these once multi-thousand dollar units go out the door for a song!) Once again, the best video signal to feed these units is RGB 15k (not 31k! you'll kill them!)

RGB 15k is the most 1:1 pixel accurate resolution you'd want. Anything else involves interpolation (introducing noise, artifacts, lag, etc.) It's also what most 80's and 90's Arcade Machines used (if you want to interface your NES to an Arcade monitor).