2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

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Drachenherz
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2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by Drachenherz »

As the CES 2014 is about to start, I just wanted to plug the shmups-forum hivemind for your thoughts and knowledge on this subject. And I'd also like to collect and share some useful info on VR.

As I fulfilled myself a childhood dream by getting a OR devkit, I have to say: the time for VR for the masses has finally come! Although this dev-kit has some issues (low resolution, headtracking without positional tracking, latency), it really works and puts me IN the game or application. It really changes everything: immersion does happen, oh boy, and how it happens!

Now, with VR devices on the horizon that supposedly solve the issues of the dev-kit...

What do you think about it? Is this current rise of interest just a fad or is VR here to stay, like Other inventions like the TV, the phone, the computer, internet etc.?

I'm really really curious what will be revealed the next couple of days at te CES 2014! :D
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by Friendly »

I would love to give it a spin; I'm a fan of new technology. I had (and still have) a blast playing games in 3D on PS3 on my large 3DTV (passive 3D is awesome), so full immersion would be the logical next step.
However, I'd like a VR headset for PS4 because I'm not a PC gamer. Maybe one will be announced today at CES...
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by Wyrmnus »

Depends on pricing. Not every gamer is a prosperous one.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by guigui »

If only I knew what VR stands for.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by BryanM »

No.

Image

While it can be o-k for 1st person shooters or a simulation of a vehicle without any freakin' tactile feedback, the R-Zone has scant vidya game applications.

What you're looking for is something that jams needles into your spine and puts you into a holodeck universe. We're uh, still a ways out from that.
PSX Vita: Slightly more popular than Color TV-Game system. Almost as successful as the Wii U.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by Friendly »

@BryanM
About your sig: "PSX [sic] Vita: Almost as popular as Color TV-Game system."

Total sales of Nintendo's Color TV-Game: 3 million in 4 years.
Total sales of Sony's PS Vita: More than 7 million in 2 years.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by railslave »

SEGA, creators of total immersion foreva!!


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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by BryanM »

Friendly wrote:@BryanM
About your sig: "PSX [sic] Vita: Almost as popular as Color TV-Game system."

Total sales of Sony's PS Vita: More than 7 million in 2 years.
They finally made it eh. I'm so proud of them. Image
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by Drachenherz »

VR: Virtual Reality.

I hear you, I hear you. Abominations like the Virtua Boy arenot forgotten, or the early steps of VR in the 90s.

But I can tell you: this time, it's gonna blow people away. An example: Last night, I was playing the game Kairo a bit. It's got quite simplistic but very surreal graphics. Playing it on a monitor, I would have quickly dispensed the game, but playing it with the rift is quite a different beast: moving and looking around in these surroundings literally sucked me in. After about 10mins of playing, I had the feeling of BEING there. At first, I didn't even realize it, but suddenly I had the feeling, that I'm not looking around... Hmm, how to explain: Looking around via mouse or gamepad, the screen moves and I clearly know and don't forget that I am in a gameworld.

But being able to look around with your head, like in real life, naturally... Ah fuck, I'm at a lost of words. :P

Other example: while fiddling around with the settings in Live for speed (while still sitting in the virtual cockpit), I tried to rest my ellbow on the window/door of the car. Yes, I did feel quite stupid. :D

Of course, we're far from being completely immersed in a virtual word like in the Matrix, but being able to at least dive into the virtual world visually and acustically - really, it is mindboggling how much that changes the experience compared to watching it on a screen or even in 3d.

And there's more to come, VR is actually in its baby shoes, tactile feedback, motion sensoring etc, there are many creative minds working on this...
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by trap15 »

Friendly wrote:@BryanM
About your sig: "PSX [sic] Vita: Almost as popular as Color TV-Game system."

Total sales of Nintendo's Color TV-Game: 3 million in 4 years.
Total sales of Sony's PS Vita: More than 7 million in 2 years.
Population in Color TV-Game's area of sale (Japan only) in 1980: 117,060,396
Population in PS Vita's area of sale (Japan, Europe, North America) in 2011: 127,300,000+742,452,000+565,265,000= 1,435,017,000

Color TV-Game's market penetration: 3,000,000/117,060,396 = 2.562779644%
PS Vita's market penetration: 8,000,000/1,435,017,000 = 0.557484684%

Sorry, your buddy is still losing. I even fudged the numbers pretty heavily in favor of Vita too.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by Drachenherz »

Wyrmnus wrote:Depends on pricing. Not every gamer is a prosperous one.
The Oculus Rift dev-kit is sold via the oculus homepage for 300$.

And oculus tries to sell the final consumer version at about the same price, but pricing of the final product is not known yet. Actually, no release date for consumer version has been anounced yet. I hope that a release date for the CV will be made public on the CES.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by EmperorIng »

Rift will be an expensive diversion at best. The public-at-large doesn't care about Virtual Reality; thus it's never going to truly penetrate the consumer market.

This stuff has no staying power. Only tech junkies ever seem to care, and that will only ever be the market for VR.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by BryanM »

But seriously, for this type of thing I'd rather have a Gantz sphere with a 180 degree screen in the thing, that can have hardware swapped out. So you could change the chair, swap between airplane/mech/House von Deaders control panels, and not have a tv strapped to your head. I know the cost would be astronomical, but it's the moon-shot ideal for these types of things.

The Rift will have its niche appeal, but it won't take off until it includes a neural shunt that lets you feel a boob. (I suppose as a USB peripheral.) My main point being is that it doesn't expand the number of games possible - it contracts them.

Nothing passes faster than novelty. We live in an age of magic and wonders, and people aren't impressed with our magic telepathic bricks any more..

Edit: the numbers on the wikipedia page suggest it'll have to sell over 600,000 to break even. I think that'll be really challenging, but not completely infeasible...
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by Drachenherz »

BryanM wrote:But seriously, for this type of thing I'd rather have a Gantz sphere with a 180 degree screen in the thing, that can have hardware swapped out. So you could change the chair, swap between airplane/mech/House von Deaders control panels, and not have a tv strapped to your head. I know the cost would be astronomical, but it's the moon-shot ideal for these types of things.

The Rift will have its niche appeal, but it won't take off until it includes a neural shunt that lets you feel a boob. (I suppose as a USB peripheral.) My main point being is that it doesn't expand the number of games possible - it contracts them.

Nothing passes faster than novelty. We live in an age of magic and wonders, and people aren't impressed with our magic telepathic bricks any more..

Edit: the numbers on the wikipedia page suggest it'll have to sell over 600,000 to break even. I think that'll be really challenging, but not completely infeasible...
My devkit (not intended for consumer use...) is unit nr. 98 thousand something...
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by ZellSF »

I hope this is successful, because it might kill the belief that the excessive motion blur in games is totally accurate to the motion blur your eyes have.

oh who am I kidding, in a world where there's people that believes the eye sees 30 frames a second, that's not happening.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by Dave_K. »

I've been dabbling with VR tech since the early 90's, and bought (and still have) the Oculas equivalent of back then, the Virtual IO Glasses - 3D full immersion with head tracking, as well as augmented reality display when you remove the shield. Almost 20 years later and the OR is the best we can do? The media was hyping VR back then saying we would have retinal displays at ungodly resolution by 2000. :lol:

VW (virtual worlds) is suffering a similar slow ramp in technology.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by emphatic »

trap15 wrote:Sorry, your buddy is still losing. I even fudged the numbers pretty heavily in favor of Vita too.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

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Image
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by CMoon »

EllertMichael wrote:The future is cumming...
!!!!

Well they say the OR makes you feel like you're there. If sex can't sell this, nothing can!

(oh, guys, the link above is NSFW.)
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by Xyga »

EllertMichael wrote:The future is cumming...
Finally !
Now we need games supporting various types of peripherals working along with the OR.
Doujin makers will love this.
Last edited by Xyga on Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by drauch »

WHAT WAS THAT LINK?

I'm a huge fan of Tenga. I need to know. Now. This could decide my support status of VR gaming.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by MOSQUITO FIGHTER »

I'd like to try this as long as the headset doesn't weigh a ton. My only experience with VR was on a FPS type of game and I liked it pretty well. But I didn't get to play for very long and it cost some absurd amount of money to play, like $13 for five minutes. Will it be compatible with consoles in addition to pc? Too bad they can't figure out some way to naturally move around in environments. I guess they could use a treadmill or something, but everyone would probably fall.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by Ed Oscuro »

There's a bunch of stuff up in the air right now: How many milliseconds of latency are "beyond human perception?" Michael Abrash says:
In contrast, I can tell you from personal experience that more than 20 ms is too much for VR and especially AR, but research indicates that 15 ms might be the threshold, or even 7 ms.
Even 15ms is going to be a challenge for the modern rendering system, let alone 7ms. Be prepared to trade off shiny graphics for VR capability:
For rendering, there’s not much to be done other than to simplify the scenes to be rendered. AR/VR rendering on PCs will have to be roughly on the order of five-year-old games, which have low enough overall performance demands to allow rendering latencies on the order of 3-5 ms (200-333 Hz). Of course, if you want to do general, walk-around AR, you’ll be in the position of needing to do very-low-latency rendering on mobile processors, and then you’ll need to be at the graphics level of perhaps a 2000-era game at best. This is just one of many reasons that I think walk-around AR is a long way off.
And at the same time there's a lot of ambiguity about where rendering technology goes. Do you "race the beam" and render each line at a time? As Abrash notes, that means you lose multi-line rendering effects (certainly any form of anti-aliasing goes out the window there).

What about G-SYNC style effects? Recent reviews of that technology seem to indicate it's got a ways to go before it's really mature, but how does G-SYNC-style refresh-on-demand fit into this picture?
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by Ruldra »

The future is here. For the low, low price of $499.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTtfAQEeAJI

(I could see myself using that a few times, then putting it away and never using it again. Just like my Guitar Hero controller.)
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by MOSQUITO FIGHTER »

Ruldra wrote:The future is here. For the low, low price of $499.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTtfAQEeAJI

(I could see myself using that a few times, then putting it away and never using it again. Just like my Guitar Hero controller.)
Yeah, it is probably something you would try a few times and then get bored with. Looks like they really need to make the head movement independent of the gun aiming. He wasn't aiming all that great.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by Specineff »

No thanks. 16-bit sprite graphics, 6 or 8 channels of FM synth, with 256 colors and scaling is enough for me.
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by BryanM »

A recent announcement has unveiled the winner of the VR wars:

Image

Yes. Cardboard is the winner. I find this fact hilarious. Thoughts?
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by Mischief Maker »

I think we all know where this is headed:

http://youtu.be/doAnB5_eDnw
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by Casey120 »

I hope so as my body is ready, I have a Sony HMZ for some time now, hell I was just watching Lego 3D 10 minutes ago .
Greatest gaming experience I had was playing Uncharted 3 in 3D on the " huge " screen, the plane jump and desert sequence was incredible .
Each eye it's own screen is so much better and relaxing than the cross talk crap you get on a 3D tv .
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Re: 2014 - the breakthrough of VR? Your thoughts please.

Post by neorichieb1971 »

I could see the attraction with a Ueda type of game. Slow and absorbing. But I cannot see the point of it if skill and speed are necessary to beat the game.

Its all about the application. If you can play the game on a monitor, there is no need to play it in VR.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
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