Getting a PC for emulation

[zinger]

I'm going to buy a dedicated emulation rig and since I know practically nothing about PC hardware I need some advice on what to get. Just to be clear: My goal isn't to achieve the ultimate setup with hand-picked graphics cards and ultra-heavy CRT monitors etc, I basically just want a stable PC that's capable of running MAME with HLSL for a couple of hundred euro (I already have my HRAP, great speakers and a pivot LCD for swift rotation). I don't mean to replace my original game systems, anway!

So, I was thinking of getting a "refurbished" desktop model from one of those office outlet companies, since I've heard they're generally very stable and good value compared to what most chain stores offer brand new. They are also tested and come with a warranty. Here are two of the models I've conisdered, they're both about 400 euro (I'm not planning on spending more than that):

Dell Optiplex 980 (SFF) (Intel i5-650 3.2GHz, 4GB RAM, 250GB HD, DVD-RW, Intel hd graphics (core i5) 1500mb)
Lenovo ThinkCentre M90p (SFF) (Intel i5-650 3.2GHz, 4GB RAM, 80GB SSD, DVD-RW, Intel hd graphics (core i5) 1300mb)

Since these models seem to have been designed for office use at some boring company they most definitely weren't optimized for 2D gaming, but would the graphics card work okay anway? Would there be a wiser way to spend my money?

[shmuppyLove]

optimized for 2D gaming

The onboard graphics will be fine for MAME. If you want run some of the 3D stuff like PCSX2 or nullDC, you may run into some limitations, but that's about it.

Processor looks good, make sure you use a 64-bit OS as there is a bit of a speed boost.

Between the two, I would go for the 80GB SSD, but you will need to purchase another drive to use as storage; 80GB will fill up very quickly after your OS and software is installed.

Maybe the form factor / style of the system will matter to you? How do they look?

[zinger]

Ok, sounds good, thanks! I might run some PS1 games, but nothing newer than that, so I guess I'll be fine then. Both of them look pretty good and are quite compact.

I can upgrade the other computer with a SSD too, which is something I've been considering. I know of the benefits of installing the OS on an SSD, but let's say I get an extra regular SATA for storing most files on, would it be best to keep the actual emulators on the SSD, or on the same drive?

[shmuppyLove]

Ok, sounds good, thanks! I might run some PS1 games, but nothing newer than that, so I guess I'll be fine then. Both of them look pretty good and are quite compact.

I can upgrade the other computer with a SSD too, which is something I've been considering. I know of the benefits of installing the OS on an SSD, but let's say I get an extra regular SATA for storing most files on, would it be best to keep the actual emulators on the SSD, or on the same drive?

Probably wouldn't make much difference. For larger games there would probably be a reduction in loading time, but that would be it.

[nasty_wolverine]

Both are fine, you will want to add a 1GB graphics card to the system, then you will be set for anything till PS2 emulation atleast. If you do have the money go for the SSD one, with an extra HDD.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Some 3D systems have dedicated emulators faster than MAME, because they use hardware 3D acceleration. Zero Gunner on Model 2 Emulator run fine using GF6800, but had problems with Radeon 8500. I don't think speed was the problem there, but it seemed to demand hardware DirectX 9 support.
Not helping you with this old story perhaps.

[KAI]

Makaron, Demul, Zinc, Nebula and Mame work perfectly on my PC (Pentium Dual-Core CPU E5400).
AFAIK the only arcade emulators that require GPU are Supermodel (Sega model 3) and Taito's Type X. You can emulate everything else with CPU alone.
Get a dual core 2.7 or something better.

[zinger]

Hmm I could get a dual core around 3 GHz for half that price from the same company (around 160-200 euro). I'd still have to shell out for a SDD, but considering I'm basically only going to play 16 BIT 2D games on it, that might be the better option for me? I wouldn't want to have to compromise with the HLSL filter settings though...

[cools]

I'd get the one with the SSD and not load it up with fullsets of PSX games, that's plenty of space if you don't want everything including the stuff you'll never play.

HLSL runs nicely on modern Intel built in chipsets, so test it before splashing out.

[Ed Oscuro]

Cores and GHz are only part of the story for emulation - you also want as much cache available to each CPU as possible. Probably you want an i7 then.

However, unless you are interested in 3D games, or MAME bloats up even more in short order, an i5 should be okay. I haven't used one myself (only i7 parts - the original 920 and the 3930k).

Here's an unfortunate curveball for you to consider: At the moment there appears like there will be a choice for gaming. You could get an AMD part, and win heavy performance benefits in the Dolphin emulator for GC and Wii titles, and possibly also some performance more generally if their proprietary Mantle stuff sticks (which I rather doubt, actually), OR you could invest in an nVidia part and a G-SYNC capable monitor down the line for what should be a lag reduction and accurate refresh rates (and no tearing or nastiness from a VGA connection) instead. Unless more emulators make use of pinned memory like Dolphin, and you are interested in emulating the 3D era consoles, perhaps an nVidia part would be better. Or, of course, you could just stick with integrated graphics and save your money. It should be okay to buy the system now and then let those technologies shake out down the road.

[null1024]

I'd get the one with the SSD and not load it up with fullsets of PSX games, that's plenty of space if you don't want everything including the stuff you'll never play.

HLSL runs nicely on modern Intel built in chipsets, so test it before splashing out.

Yeah, especially since you can get a 1.5TB external drive for $120 anyway if you really need that extra space for ISOs. Although, you might simply just not get every single game ever and only get the ones you'll play.


Even a rather low-end i5 [like my Ivy Bridge ULV one that's in this here netbook, 1.8GHz, turbo up to 2.8] does rather well with emulation -- damn near everything I've tried runs fine in MAME [and it does SH-3 fullspeed ]. PPSSPP works fine, NullDC works fine if I use per-strip triangle sorting [causes a few ugly issues, but otherwise works fine]. Demul is slow on it though. I should probably try <whatever the hell bsnes is called today> on this machine, see if I could play Yoshi's Island on it, haha.

And all of this is on the integrated Intel HD 4000. I'd really suggest getting a graphics card though, since GPU seems to be my biggest bottleneck for any 3D system emulation. I know that's not a major concern for you, but the lack of GPU strength compared to a dedicated card seems to be the one thing that really disappoints me about this machine.

[Drum]

I think you need a pretty grunty machine to run Saturn well, but I am stupid and have no idea of the specifics.

[zinger]

Ok, but I'll probably mostly use this computer for running MAME and 16 BIT stuff. I already own (or will purchase at some point) most other systems I'm interested in.

[null1024]

I think you need a pretty grunty machine to run Saturn well, but I am stupid and have no idea of the specifics.

Nah, my old Pentium Dual-Core laptop from 2010 runs SSF on max compatibility at full speed, ignoring Sega's 480i fighting games. This i5-3427U I'm on does even that at full speed [but not with deinterlacing at full speed, so it looks a little bad].

@zinger: Pretty much any recent machine will do for MAME and 16 bit stuff, really.
From a glance at those specs, both of those machines in your first post should be more than up to the task. Hell, they should be able to do everything I listed in my last post, and probably better since it's a desktop i5 [even if it's a bit older].

[mosey]

I bought a highly decent 2 core 4gb $150 pc from new egg, so far so good! Added a flash drive for ready boost, but runs PS1 games and Steam's Lumines just fine!

Beware the case size though, if you ever wish to upgrade. Might need a taller or wider one for the HD vid cards that are soon to be so cheap.

[RegalSin]

I brought a $100 PC, I brought it for doing high end graphic works, since I have dealth with all kinds of
computers. It is better then paying $5,000 for a oiga powerful thing or even $20,000

It comes with

Vista
2Gigs Memory
3Ghz
512MB Card

It does what I want it to do, freezes from time to time, but that is the nature of all non-workstations.

For most emulation I stick with my 98 machine. The machine I am using can be unofficialy supported by Win98.
Out of the box with barely any upgrades, or fixes Windows 98 does most of what you need, and is ( or was ) heavily supported by the emulation community. All my emulators works on 98 with quick un-interupted results.

Otherwise I would also considered a supped up game console, like an supped up modified X-box ( original ) or PS3.

OSX/unix/PPC you have to custom build a machine. Because all the official cosumer ones suck. Otherwise the Intel OSX,
can unofficially be installed, on most intel machines.

[quash]

Windows 98? Are you using NeoRageX or something? lol

OP, either of those should be fine. I'd get the one with the SSD for the sake of having a more responsive system.

[bulbousbeard]

I think you need a pretty grunty machine to run Saturn well, but I am stupid and have no idea of the specifics.

Nah, my old Pentium Dual-Core laptop from 2010 runs SSF on max compatibility at full speed, ignoring Sega's 480i fighting games. This i5-3427U I'm on does even that at full speed [but not with deinterlacing at full speed, so it looks a little bad].

Keep in mind that within a year or so, the best way to play Saturn games might actually be in MESS. Saturn games in MESS with HLSL look vastly superior to SSF. You pretty much need a 4.5ghz i7 to run those games at full speed in MESS.

MAME's video output is just so much better than every other emulator, I use MESS/MAME whenever possible. Even though Kega Fusion is a better Genesis emulator overall, for example, I will run Genesis games that work perfectly in MESS there instead.

[null1024]

Eh. As long as it's fast and unfiltered, I'm happy. Also, SSF is fucking leaps and bounds ahead of everything else in terms of compatibility anyway [and MESS is lower than even Yabause last time I checked]. Same reason I like Fusion [although, Fusion isn't the most accurate anymore [IIRC, it's one of the Gens forks now [Gens/GS I think?]], but it's still more accurate than MESS last time I checked].

Man, I want to love MESS. It's just less accurate and more of a pain to configure than everything else.

[Ed Oscuro]

MESS does benefit from having the MAME style video - but I wouldn't be surprised to find it suffers from it as well, since there's probably a lot more code (and legacy code) than in other emulators.

Comparing MAME or MESS or anything to Dolphin strikes me as a funny joke. PCSX2 would be right up there as well on account of its sophisticated options (including deinterlacing modes) but it suffers from some issues.

I am still finding that SSF gives me strange stuttery black lines in the Saturn frontend, at least - didn't notice them during gameplay of Panzer Dragoon (testing it out), despite switching BIOSes.

I also have no idea how robust MESS configurations and options are compared to a dedicated emulator, but it could be a problem.

[Astraea FGA Mk. I]

I noticed that I had to crank my CPU clock speed to emulate some of the SH3 Cave titles in MAME at 100% emulation speed. Although I am running an old CPU, a core 2 quad Q9650 overclocked from 3ghz to over 4ghz. A half decent video card would be worthwhile as others have said as it will allow a much broader range of what you can emulate. Emulation varies between being heavily CPU dependent and GPU dependent so having both covered will give you the most options. Nothing cutting edge required, get an i3 or i5 intel cpu and perhaps a generation or two old GPU with 512 - 1024 gb of video ram.

[Obiwanshinobi]

MAME's video output is just so much better than every other emulator, I use MESS/MAME whenever possible. Even though Kega Fusion is a better Genesis emulator overall, for example, I will run Genesis games that work perfectly in MESS there instead.

Any screenshots or photos to back up the statement about video output? When I played Crying: Aseimei Sensou on MAME, I can't say I saw much improvement over Kega Fusion.