What happened to Cave?

[matrigs]

[cave hermit]

Just wait for that ketsui 2 announcement..

We will get it after IbaraXMushihimesama...

Does that come before or after Dodon-Garrega?

[KAI]

After ESPbarahimepachi Kitty Label

[WeirdRain]

After ESPbarahimepachi Kitty Label

Limited edition of 500 downloads, F2P and for iOS only... of course the bullets are paid dlc...

[Neorebel]

Just to briefly chime in regarding the impact of MAME... I think in my case, it provided little to effect on Cave financially. I definitely discovered the company via the internet and MAME, and did go on to but ports of the games on the Saturn, PS1, PS2, and PS3. I don't have an Xbox. Obviously used games or PCBs don't support the company, however, I did go ahead and buy all of their iOS games. They're quite fun to play when I have a little time to kill, but of course it's *really* sad if making smartphone games becomes the extent of what Cave does in the future. Japanese arcades are still alive, and there is a new crop of consoles to port the games to as well.

[KAI]

*Arcades are dead even in japan
*Games don't get ports
*NESICA

[IseeThings]

Just to briefly chime in regarding the impact of MAME... I think in my case, it provided little to effect on Cave financially. I definitely discovered the company via the internet and MAME, and did go on to but ports of the games on the Saturn, PS1, PS2, and PS3. I don't have an Xbox. Obviously used games or PCBs don't support the company, however, I did go ahead and buy all of their iOS games. They're quite fun to play when I have a little time to kill, but of course it's *really* sad if making smartphone games becomes the extent of what Cave does in the future. Japanese arcades are still alive, and there is a new crop of consoles to port the games to as well.

Of course by buying the smartphone games you're telling them that's where the money is and that's the direction they should be heading in..

so you really can't win

[Cagar]

CAVE in the last matsuri event:
We will NOT stop developing STGs no matter what happens and our next title will be for smartphones.

[Neorebel]

Of course by buying the smartphone games you're telling them that's where the money is and that's the direction they should be heading in..

so you really can't win

I hear ya, but I mean, come on, they can't possible think that *actual gamers* just disappeared over the years. And for the normals, I can argue, that the smartphone games could become a gateway to real interest if they get the right 'push.'

Also, and this is a serious question.... Are arcades really dead in Japan?

What's the deal with this NESiCA? I am under the impression that digital delivery is actually NOT going to replace physical software/hardware in the near future. I don't think the civilized world's internet infrastructure is really capable of providing that seamlessly. Also, can you imagine - arcade games being released that need to be patched all the time like on game consoles!

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

You are unfortunately clueless. Ever heard of DFK 1.0, Futari 1.0, Deathsmiles 2 1.0, Mushi Matsuri overflow etc.

[Neorebel]

I see your very good point. But how much worse would it get... is all I'm saying.

[IseeThings]

I see your very good point. But how much worse would it get... is all I'm saying.

If anything the practice of 'patch, patch, patch, patch' comes (at least in the sense of games) from Arcades in the first place, look at offerings from companies like Williams, Midway and Capcom to see who is to blame there.. there were always less arcades than there were people with home systems, so making patches (in the form of new roms) available to arcade ops wasn't really an issue, whereas home software tended to be sold once and couldn't really be 'patched' (especially not if sold on cartridge / cd / copy protected, non-installable disks etc.)

Also the infrastructure required for it is a drop in the ocean compared to what xbox live, steam etc. require and use, remember arcades are a tiny, tiny almost invisible part of the industry these days.

Nesica is evil for many reasons, it strips away ownership, prevents collectors from buying the games they want, even prevents ops from actually operating the revisions they want (I'm reliably informed that to this day it's an OLDER revision of Street Fighter 3 3rd Strike that is preferred for tournament use because many players consider the most recent one to be more broken) again NESICA strips away that possibility, with these online distribution schemes you always get the version the company want you to get, so they can rebalance the game in undesirable ways or cut features and you have no choice to seek out the older version. Furthermore typically the games only exist for the life of the service and the arcade operating life of the machine in question, they have no future, they're doomed to become distant memories and nothing more once the plug is pulled.

It's also evil because it's a massive drain on the arcades. While it is claimed that such systems will save you (as an operator) money it also means you're tied to those systems, you have nothing you can sell later, it also means there are less modern games you can pick up for cheap as used, so it's actually further strangling an already struggling industry. The game developers / publishers think they need more money to survive, so they end up leeching off an already very limited supply of money elsewhere, the costs of that then get transferred onto customers who already see the price they're being asked to pay for a few minutes of gameplay too high...

Anyway, all that is a bit off-topic, but I found your initial comments suggesting this patch mentality in arcades as something new to be rather strange considering how much history there is with games being patched in arcades, heaven forbid we talk about arcade casino / gambling games where you can have 100+ revisions of something where the operators would have to check BBS sites daily to see if there were patches due to people finding new ways to exploit bugs in games for profit (although I wonder how you have that many bugs in the first place for such simple systems!)

[Acid King]

As sad as it is to see the mighty Cave resort to Hello Kitty puzzle games, if that's what they have to do to survive then who cares? Obviously their arcade games weren't paying the bills for them, whether by corporate incompetence or because they are simply too niche, and if this is what it takes for them to continue periodically releasing new shooters then I think it's a good thing. Truth be told, I'd play the shit out of a Hello Kitty cute 'em up. They should give the property to Yagawa for a Pink Sweets followup.

[Neorebel]

Nesica is evil for many reasons, it strips away ownership, prevents collectors from buying the games they want, even prevents ops from actually operating the revisions they want Furthermore typically the games only exist for the life of the service and the arcade operating life of the machine in question, they have no future, they're doomed to become distant memories and nothing more once the plug is pulled.

This is a terrifying thought. I can't stand when companies want to control how we use their content or devices and unfortunately I guess it's the future. As for my comment about patching I guess I have just been playing too much PS3, where it seems like every other time I play something needs to be downloaded and installed first. It was not the most thought out argument.

[alpachinko]

Erm there are quite a few patches to arcade games already in existence. Or versions ie 1.1 etc. addressing balancing etc.

[Never_Scurred]

Don't worry y'all, with the money from these smartphone games they'll fund the Ibara + Ibara Kuro port for the 360. Anytime now...

I won't stop believing.

[abcabcabc339]

probably $100, $200 at most. Rollin' in the dough with each board sold.

matsuri events completely sold out of every item...
one of the most loyal fan bases in all of gaming...
financial support from Microsoft...
dont pay their employees shit, and they work massive overtime...

... And CAVE can't stay in the black? WTF is going on down there??

To many higher management paying themselves a "decent" wage I reckon...

This sounds about right. Hydorah, Crimzon Clover, and Hellsinker are proof that lots of money, and lots of people does not a good game make.

[ZacharyB]

Games made at home can't be compared to games made in a corporate setting due to the timeframes allowed.

At home, a single developer is allowed unlimited time to produce a game. But corporate games must be completed in a timely manner in order to have enough money to pay the staff and, with hope, turn a profit. The corporate time limit for game production is usually 8 months to a year.

[KAI]

300.000 downloads
So, this shit is good or not?

[AntiFritz]

300.000 downloads
So, this shit is good or not?

You've seen the videos right?

[Shadowduel]

Obviously used games or PCBs don't support the company

... but greatly helps 'em to justify the price of their new games. It's always good to have your products remain valued high even on the second hand market.

[Cagar]

300.000 downloads
So, this shit is good or not?

It feels good to shoot things and collect things, the RPG-mechanics feel addicting, and stuff.
I can imagine that if I could read japanese, I would be 100% addicted (in terms of mobile-game addiction), even when there's barely any enemy bullets.

[hecheff]

Games made at home can't be compared to games made in a corporate setting due to the timeframes allowed.

At home, a single developer is allowed unlimited time to produce a game. But corporate games must be completed in a timely manner in order to have enough money to pay the staff and, with hope, turn a profit. The corporate time limit for game production is usually 8 months to a year.

And that's leaving out the time needed to prepare the idea pitch, not to mention marketing and more time getting things approved (especially for large corporations).

[Necronom]

Nesica is evil for many reasons, it strips away ownership, prevents collectors from buying the games they want, even prevents ops from actually operating the revisions they want

It strips away ownership because so many arcade owners don't want to own the machines. Owning the machines is expensive and comes with the prospect of knowing that you have to sell them later on. If the game turns out to be not as popular as initially expected selling the thing later on means loosing money. How can this be a good thing? Most arcade owners would prefer to rent the games as a service. There's also no reason why the revisions/updates couldn't be voluntary IF arcade owners wish so.

Furthermore typically the games only exist for the life of the service and the arcade operating life of the machine in question, they have no future, they're doomed to become distant memories and nothing more once the plug is pulled.

I understand the logic here but imho this will certainly not be the case with most games on the system. Games on nesica exist in a very portable form, meaning going multiplatform from here makes a lot of sense. The most popular games will not vanish but pop up on other platforms, if not already there.

Cave could easily port their back catalogue to nesica and keep capitalizing on the ports. Most of their popular games are kinda timeless anyway. Going from nesica to ps4 and then steam will be more profitable than experimenting with (f2p) mobile stuff...

[Pretas]

Cave has hardly been proactive in making the jump to Nesica, though. Their sole release on the platform to date is Akai Katana Shin, not one of their more popular titles, while DSIIX and SDOJ Ver. 1.5 are just begging to be ported to arcades. Perhaps they've decided it still isn't an adequately profitable venture for them compared to mobage.

[WeirdRain]

300.000 downloads
So, this shit is good or not?

I hate to say it, but it is actually quite entertaining

[Phellan Wolf]

So there are no chances to see an Ibara Kuro HD or something?? Or a Ketsui 2??
I can't believe it. I still believe that eventually and once earned the money Cave will launch another shmup.
By the way does anybody knows where is Asada now?? Maybe he has joined MS japanese game studios

[KAI]

http://gematsu.com/2013/09/makoto-asada ... x-one-game

[Jeneki]

The most popular games will not vanish but pop up on other platforms, if not already there.

"Most popular" is the part that worries me.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

So there are no chances to see an Ibara Kuro HD or something?? Or a Ketsui 2??
I can't believe it. I still believe that eventually and once earned the money Cave will launch another shmup.
By the way does anybody knows where is Asada now?? Maybe he has joined MS japanese game studios

Ketsui Zero because it has to be a prequel if they rode off into their deaths in the original.