Do Quarter Munchers Actually Exist?

[Ex_Mosquito]

Ex_Mosquito, a couple of weeks isn't much for Final Fight, that's pretty good - although I don't know how many hours that is (and appreciate you already knew the ropes from clearing it in '97). Still kind of curious how many hours it might be, but I suppose it doesn't matter too much. Maybe I let the game stamp out my enthusiasm too quickly.

Hmm it was a while ago but I played about an hour a day most days for about 6weeks I'd say. I can't play for much more than an hour without losing concentration and getting sloppy. Even with my favorite game ever Super Turbo, I have to take a breather after an hour. It's mentally drains me! Id say about 40ish hours to 1cc it.

Amazing run! Thanks so much for the timestamps. Those invincible backbreaker frames are timed to always be done in the same place to avoid certain attacks? You're damn quick if so. I know about the hold up to throw after a combo, but I'm not familiar with Haggar and it's good to see his management techniques. The 35:07 invincible backbreaker loop is a neat trick, Haggar seems to be good for this as he doesn't throw the characters too far after performing the move - Guy throws them across the screen. I found it interesting how you use the breakout as an opening strategy sometimes, since normally I save that for when they're pouncing on me like a pack of wolves.

Yeah a lot of them are planned. The backbreaker is invaluable for fighting the Andres'. They're a pain in the arse if there are multiple on the screen at once using Haggar because they have a habit of dashing between Haggars slow standing punches.

I'd defiantly say Guy is the worst. Like Ruldra mentioned, Codys ability to stab with the knife makes it much easier. You could abuse the infinite punch combo I guess but I think it's in bad taste resorting to such tactics. Saying that I saw someone in 09' in the Hey arcade in Aki 1-life FF and he even froze the last boss and milked the enemies, then timed out/suicide his remaining lives just for score until the final 00s on the timer and then killed the the boss at the last possible moment. It was pretty stunning to watch.

[coturnixx]

Was pondering if these games were played for score, thanks for clearing that

[Marc]

Yes they do. Afterburner and Galaxy Force say hi.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

After playing Leland Corporation's Ivan Stewart's Super Off-Road game, you could add an extra quarter to add a whopping $230,000 in virtual funds to upgrade various things including buying more nitro. You could have up to 99 nitros and up to 247 credits in reserve on a single SOF game session if so desired.

Same could said with Leland's Indy Heat & the 8-Track upgrade for SOR later on at the arcades.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Marc]

There was another, agreed. A fantastic game on home systems, a horrid coin muncher in the arcade.

[oboewan42]

I know it's a pretty big bump but I was just thinking about this!

I know a lot of people have mentioned beat-em-ups, but lightgun shooters (more specifically, mounted-machine-gun shooters) appear to be even worse offenders. (I know Terminator 2 has already been mentioned)

Often times, there's literally no way to avoid damage - the enemies start attacking the moment they appear on screen, and there's more than one at a time - so you end up having this big mushy lifebar. Taking damage feels totally arbitrary, and the whole thing ends up coming across as very sloppy and Euroshmuppy. I think HG101 put it best in their review of Revolution X:

This isn't like Lethal Enforcers where the enemies will give you a second or two before they fire, instead they'll just start blasting at you the second they appear on screen... your health bar is more of a general indicator of how long you get to play the game before it wants another credit. All the enemies fire at you the instant they appear on screen, and bosses shoot so many projectiles that there's no hope of shooting them all down.

Ordinarily I'd dismiss this as the usual "it's too hard" credit feed whining but, having played Revolution X, I can say this is 100% accurate. The game is not intended to be played for the 1CC; it's designed so that you have to credit feed it. Terminator 2 is the same way, as is pretty much any Raw Thrills lightgun game. You are going to die, the question is "how often".

But it's not just an American phenomenon, Japanese devs did it too, and first! SNK had Beast Busters, Namco had Steel Gunner (the world version at least; the JP version seems to be more fair), Taito had Space Gun, Data East had Dragon Gun... Sega, surprisingly enough, is probably the worst offender, with no less than five shining examples (Line Of Fire, Laser Ghost, Rail Chase, Jurassic Park, and Alien3 - and that's just counting the ones in MAME).

(Incidentally, I think more games like this could take a page from Metal Slug and show you a credit count at the end. It sounds like it would be a lot of fun to try and credit-attack, especially since playing for score is kind of out the window when these games either don't reset your score on continue - a la Revolution X - or don't have a score at all - a la Jurassic Park).

[trap15]

Lots of SEGA arcade games weren't designed to be played for 1CC, though often-times people have done it anyways.

[Illyrian]

Now it's interesting you say that, as I have been taking a run at some old games recently and there are a few that really are legitimately bullshit in my opinion.

1. Dragon's Lair - I've actually played this on the recent Steam release in "1983 mode" where you basically have the same conditions as in the arcade. After about 30-40 credits I literally had no idea which input to do in some of the rooms. So I went and turned on input display which means the correct button press flashes on the screen. There are several parts of that game where the game flat out lies to you about what you need to do and anyone actually just trying to learn by repitition would probably never clear it. Those are:
The Blue Floor Room - a room in the game where a suit of animated armour sends a maze at you across the floor at high speed and you have to jump in the 4 directions to get through it. I don't remember the exact input now but I think it is <- v -> <- -> <- ^ SWORD or something like that. Here's the problem. The input window for the last 3 buttons before the sword are BEFORE the screen shows you the gap. So you have to input the button before you would ever think you need to. Cheaty as hell
The Bridge jump/Chomper Door/Whirling Bats - three places where you have to make a timed jump. With regards to the whirling bats, there is no visual clue as to the timing, some people say there is a slight audio queue but in a loud arcade back in the day I have no idea how you would get that. The other two involve inputting a direction in a tiny window that bears no actual relation to what is happening on screen.

Dragon's Lair 2 is notorious for being an utterly brutal coin trap, the rooms are longer, there is a constant stream of inputs required and the actual video in the background is not very good.

Space Ace is more forgiving, but makes players go through longer sequences without failing as the rooms are bigger. It also has misleading inputs and input windows before where you think you would need to press the button.

With regards to the Sega arcade machines, Rail Chase and especially Rail Chase 2 are examples of this. A lightgun game you control with a joystick, on a bench that bounces all over the place as the vehicle in game does. It is technically impossible not to take damage in some places on your lifebar. As in, frame by frame, it cannot be prevented as a single player. Moreover, the rank increases for every 50 seconds, meaning that by the 4 minute mark you're playing the game on PCB difficulty 8 instead of 4. I've 1cc'd it with my mouse with the difficulty turned down to 1 and 2, but that's with rank turned off as well. Without these changes I really actually think you can't 1cc it as a single player, and goodness knows I have tried. The final boss will happily eat your entire life bar on normal difficulty too, if you somehow manage to get there on your first credit (I never have).

The original Jurassic Park arcade game works on a similar set of principles, the Lost World lightgun game is much more fair and enjoyable because of it.

I don't know of any lightgun games from House of the Dead 1 onwards that are what I would consider unfair after 10-15 credits of play.

[Ex_Mosquito]

House of the dead 1 on the arcade can be 1CC'd without even taking a single hit if you put in the practice, I've done it before. It's pretty easy to just 1cc. I've seen people do the other hotd games with 1-credit also.

This is a hotd 1cc I did last year. I was wwaayy out of practice so I did take hits

http://youtu.be/DD7fnaEvVoM

[Illyrian]

Yeah that is what I was saying.

I've 1cc'd HOTD 1 and 3.

The HOTD games difficulty comes from just learning how the bosses work. The rest of the game is pretty okay. HOTD 3 was quite good fun to learn for me personally.

[Zerst]

Yeah the timing windows on Dragon's Lair are a bit off at times. They're consistent though; I've 1cc'd it.

[hecheff]

Do rhythm games with a "VIP" (pay more for session-long big bonuses) option count?

Kind of like what they did for jubeat's BOX option compared to the single credit mode.

[Pretas]

Yes they do. Afterburner and Galaxy Force say hi.

Late reply, but Galaxy Force/II wasn't intended as a quarter muncher. The Japanese version disallows continuing, like some other Sega arcade releases of the time (Bullet). It's possible to get enough fuel to survive for a 1CC, just incredibly demanding.

[gs68]

Do rhythm games with a "VIP" (pay more for session-long big bonuses) option count?

Kind of like what they did for jubeat's BOX option compared to the single credit mode.

That's a money eater of a different variety. I know IIDX allows you to buy a "DJ VIP Pass" to be able to play 3 stages regardless of clear/fail status. (I don't know how jubeat saucer's Box mode works, since I don't live in eAmuse territory.)

[apatheticTurd]

Crossed Swords is an excellent example of a genuine Japanese-made quarter muncher. As early as the third level, you fight enemies that have no animations showing where they're going to hit, making blocking dumb luck. All of the later bosses can jump out of your basic combo when they feel like it and are immune to every other forms of attack.

[Ex_Mosquito]

Final Fight 1cc - Tips & Strategy with commentary.

http://youtu.be/WHs4gxwUKZY

[BIL]

Finally got around to watching, thanks for a great walkthrough!

[gs68]

Lots of SEGA arcade games weren't designed to be played for 1CC, though often-times people have done it anyways.

This is made clear with AM2 games in the 80's, which not only don't reset score upon continue, but allow you to get extra lives not only in the middle of a current run before the continue screen shows up, but before you even start a game.

[ptoing]

Also one thing to take into account, Yagawa stated that he only did the whole rank business to generate more profit for arcade owners. Not necessarily quarter muncher per se, but making gameplay elements opaque or even outright counterintuitive on purpose, just to get more money, is questionable from a certain viewpoint. Not saying rank can not be fun tho, but certainly an aquired taste.

[Mischief Maker]

Also one thing to take into account, Yagawa stated that he only did the whole rank business to generate more profit for arcade owners. Not necessarily quarter muncher per se, but making gameplay elements opaque or even outright counterintuitive on purpose, just to get more money, is questionable from a certain viewpoint. Not saying rank can not be fun tho, but certainly an aquired taste.

I remember when Jurrasic Park for the Genesis came out and they advertised how the game adapted it's difficulty on the fly to match your skill level. WOOOOAH!!!

[ptoing]

Haha, yeah. Only that Garegga for example does not do that. If you do not know what is going on and play shit (drop medals, collect lots of small ones and generally collect a lot of powerups) you will die pretty quick.

[Ed Oscuro]

I remember when Jurrasic Park for the Genesis came out and they advertised how the game adapted it's difficulty on the fly to match your skill level. WOOOOAH!!!

Not as much of a whoaaaah moment as those fractals in the SNES version!

[gs68]

I feel like Garegga's rank system is designed to encourage players to play in a conservative manner--not trying to power up to the max, not playing like the fire button is superglued down, etc. Even if rank was simply designed as a revenue-generating device.

Darius Gaiden's rank design on the other hand is just garbage. The rank doesn't necessarily reach YGW-tier, but it's certainly biased against dying several times in the same stage, especially on the final stages.

[boagman]

Lots of SEGA arcade games weren't designed to be played for 1CC, though often-times people have done it anyways.

This is made clear with AM2 games in the 80's, which not only don't reset score upon continue, but allow you to get extra lives not only in the middle of a current run before the continue screen shows up, but before you even start a game.

Can you elaborate on this a bit? I'm unclear on what you mean by games that allowed you to get extra lives before you even started the game. Example(s), please?

[KAI]

Have you ever played Racing games?

[gs68]

Lots of SEGA arcade games weren't designed to be played for 1CC, though often-times people have done it anyways.

This is made clear with AM2 games in the 80's, which not only don't reset score upon continue, but allow you to get extra lives not only in the middle of a current run before the continue screen shows up, but before you even start a game.

Can you elaborate on this a bit? I'm unclear on what you mean by games that allowed you to get extra lives before you even started the game. Example(s), please?

In Space Harrier for example, when you insert coins, you can insert more coins to start with more lives.

[boagman]

In Space Harrier for example, when you insert coins, you can insert more coins to start with more lives.

Is that a fact? I fully admit that my experience with SH is limited, but I don't remember that aspect at all. Was there a pricing incentive to buy in early, or was it just standard price, which allowed you to continue further before Game Over?

Edited to add: for example, $.25 for three lives, $.50 for seven lives? Or what?

[gs68]

This comes from my experience with playing on MAME, as well as going to California Extreme and not playing because people left like 50 extra lives in and I was not going to wait for all of those lives to run out.

After Burner II does the same, as shown here.

[boagman]

This comes from my experience with playing on MAME, as well as going to California Extreme and not playing because people left like 50 extra lives in and I was not going to wait for all of those lives to run out.

After Burner II does the same, as shown here.

Very interesting. I can honestly say that I had never noticed that before. Never knew it was an option back in the day, either.

[ACSeraph]

This comes from my experience with playing on MAME, as well as going to California Extreme and not playing because people left like 50 extra lives in and I was not going to wait for all of those lives to run out.

After Burner II does the same, as shown here.

Very interesting. I can honestly say that I had never noticed that before. Never knew it was an option back in the day, either.

I'm pretty sure it works that way in Shenmue also when you go to the arcade. That's why it allows Ryo to put in a whole bunch of credits before starting.

Luckily when I was at Kawasaki Warehouse the Japanese players all respected the 1 credit rule, so I was able to play it quite a few times. Space harrier on the original cabs is seriously one of the most fun games I've ever played. Outrun is quite good too.