keyboard issues

[Captain]

so i just bought a new keyboard, and there is a huge problem.

if I press up/down+right and one of the letters other than zxc, some of the keys dont get inputed!

this is giving me major trouble in games, this keyboard is a K120 from logitech, my earlier one was a simple standard PS2 keyboard.


wat do?


Yes, i play with the freaking keyboard, don't judge me.

(mod edit - moved to hardware forum)

[Captain]

edit:

apparently the S key is the core of the problem, a works fine, d works fine, ad works fine, but getting s into the mix makes the inputs mess up, google cant help me with this issue.

[Damocles]

Depending on how the keyboard was built, there may be a limit to the amount of keys that can be hit at one time. That being said, three is a pretty damn low number. My other guess is that your keyboard has a crappy keyboard matrix that doesn't take kindly to multiple keys at once.

Edit:

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Keyboards ... d-p/793209

It's looks like you're SOL.

[drauch]

Yup, was gonna say, that sounds like ghosting to me. I'm a keyboard junkie. You can't go cheap if you plan on proficient typing or gaming. Anything other than a mechanical is junk.

[Ed Oscuro]

My next keyboard:
http://codekeyboards.com/

If you don't want that, look for 6KRO (Six Key Roll-Over) or NKRO if you're super demanding (I don't think even MAME players need NKRO in most games).

The CODE Keyboard should be good if you go with the standard MAME layout (arrow keys + ctrl + alt + left shift are all mutually non-interfering - in fact the page says they don't count towards the 6KRO).

I should email them to make sure it works though.

[drauch]

If you go the mechanical route it can certainly be expensive. Do you play on the keyboard because you prefer it, or because it's readily available and cheap? A mechanical is certainly a worthy investment in my book, but if you were buying it for shmups, I'd say your money would be better spent on a stick.

[Ed Oscuro]

That's a matter of taste partly, but keyboards can be very useful for shmups - I have better success playing on them than on traditional sticks actually.

I still use the same old beat-up and odd Saitek PZ30AU that I've had for probably eight years now. It is actually quite nice for me despite having the dreaded rubber dome contacts instead of mechanical switches.

[drauch]

Yeah, certainly is taste, I just can't see having the precise control compared to a joystick. But hey, if it works!

[blizzz]

I like the Cherry MX Blue switches. They're clicky like a arcade stick and work perfectly for writing and gaming. If you're going for a mechanical keyboard I would suggest that you check it out in a store first. There are red/black switches that are mainly for gaming and brown, blue and green for all-round stuff. Green Switches are a bit more rare as most people don't like that they require more force than the other switches.

You can get a good mechanical keyboard with n-key rollover for as low as 60€ (search for Cooler Master CM Storm Quickfire Ultimate). If you want a super cheap but great rubberdome keyboard I can recommend the Cherry eVolution STREAM XT.

[Captain]

welp, guess I'm gonna exchange this keyboard for another one.

Should i go for the uber gamer ones or the standard boards?

(seeing as a standard keyboard had absolutely no issues with ghosting before i got the new one)

rephrase: Is buying a "good" keyboard worth it?

[Fudoh]

MX blue are very nice, but I found them to sound a little bit to mechanical or tinny. I use brown ones instead now (Filco), but I would really like to try MX green ones. The reviews sound amazing. Unforunately no european versions yet and I have a hard time using US layouts.

[drauch]

I'm currently using a Rosewill RK-9000 with Cherry blues. I really enjoy the old mechanical sound, and I mainly use it for typing and such, so I love 'em.

[Fudoh]

rephrase: Is buying a "good" keyboard worth it?

every cent, every day. Good monitor, good keyboard, good mouse. Those are the things you use EVERY day, maybe even for hours every day. Don't get stingy on those.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, certainly is taste, I just can't see having the precise control compared to a joystick. But hey, if it works!

It has very precise control - you're just trading away the ability to precisely control when directions rebound (but probably not much different from just directly activating mechanical microswitches, even if the keyboard has rubber dome contacts) and the ability to precisely input diagonals at the same moment, rather than as punching two keys at roughly the same time.

In most any shmup you care to list these are not problems, while the ability to have extremely precise and unambiguous movement according to cardinal directions (especially N-E-S-W movements) is a positive.

In practice, you tap the keys and you move a little in the direction you tapped. Only in a game with complex diagonal inputs or with a lot of circular movements would I see a keyboard as being at special disadvantage to a joystick.

The Code keyboard reportedly doesn't have the old mechanical sound, but is quiet, which I take to be a huge bonus. I don't mind the sound of my rubber-membrane keys clattering all over the place but if I could reduce that, so much the better.

[ZellSF]

welp, guess I'm gonna exchange this keyboard for another one.

Should i go for the uber gamer ones or the standard boards?

(seeing as a standard keyboard had absolutely no issues with ghosting before i got the new one)

"Gaming" keyboards usually means they have shiny LEDs. It does not say anything about how many keys you can press at the same time. Look for keyboards that specifically advertise this, stay away from anything that says "optimized layout" (because if it was good it would be 6KRO and would not need an optimized layout).

Mechanical keyboards are usually a safe bet since a majority of them have at least 6KRO.

rephrase: Is buying a "good" keyboard worth it?

If you get a good keyboard you should be able to keep it minimum five years and in the context of five years, even the high end keyboards are not expensive. So yes, very worth it.

[Lord of Pirates]

I'm currently using a Rosewill RK-9000 with Cherry blues. I really enjoy the old mechanical sound, and I mainly use it for typing and such, so I love 'em.

I wish I would have seen this thread yesterday, Newegg and Amazon had them on sale for $60 and there was an additional $20 rebate on NE.

At Gradius: If you need it, look for a keyboard that advertises NKRO with PS/2. Tom's has a pretty good article about keyboards here and OCN has a thread for mech. keyboard suggestions.

[Ed Oscuro]

NKRO limits your choices considerably more than having 6KRO as the baseline, and while it's possible that key conflicts with 6KRO could be a problem for MAME play (and similar) I don't think it is in practice. My current keyboard is probably not even 6KRO but I never have these kinds of problems with the standard alt + ctrl + shift keys and arrows (for example). For letter keys the situation is also fine.

NKRO is a good thing to have but I would rank that below aspects of the keyboard's construction (i.e. the choice of switches), and price.

Also, "over PS/2" is becoming less and less of an option these days. You want 6KRO or NKRO over USB if your keyboard plugs in via USB, as most keyboards now do.

[Molloy]

Used a half broken budget mouse for 10 years and upgraded to a Razr lately and the feeling is night and day. I had the windows mouse acceleration on as well *facepalm*. I work a lot in Autocad and it's a fucking revelation to have a chunky scroll wheel and a cursor that actually lands exactly where you tell it.

Gonna get me a nice keyboard shortly. The price for a full size one that looks cool (I want one of the grey Ducky 1990's looking ones) is pretty cost prohibitive but I figure it'll last me a long time and for the amount of typing I do it makes sense.

[Ed Oscuro]

That's funny, because my Razr mouse has twice threatened to break on me, and my Onza has never really worked right. Their products are quite decent in many ways but their reliability and toughness seems a bit lacking. Do yourself a favor and don't install their stupid mouse program for the tray.

[speedlolita]

Cannot recommend my Filco Majestouch 2 enough.

Keyboard perfection. Killer combo with my Microsoft Optical Wheel Mouse 1.1a - the same mouse I've used for 10 years.

[Lord of Pirates]

NKRO limits your choices considerably more than having 6KRO as the baseline, and while it's possible that key conflicts with 6KRO could be a problem for MAME play (and similar) I don't think it is in practice. My current keyboard is probably not even 6KRO but I never have these kinds of problems with the standard alt + ctrl + shift keys and arrows (for example). For letter keys the situation is also fine.

NKRO is a good thing to have but I would rank that below aspects of the keyboard's construction (i.e. the choice of switches), and price.

Also, "over PS/2" is becoming less and less of an option these days. You want 6KRO or NKRO over USB if your keyboard plugs in via USB, as most keyboards now do.

Fair enough points, are there really USB keyboards that have NKRO through USB? Every keyboard I've seen advertising it is 6KRO over USB and NKRO with a USB->PS/2 adapter.

Sound comparison of MX Blue/Brown/Red here scroll down a bit and you'll find it.

I have a Spectre and Naga Epic and both are doing great, though I'm definitely sticking to a rubberized grip from here on out, it's easy to clean and it's just as easy to spot when it needs some cleaning.

[blizzz]

Fair enough points, are there really USB keyboards that have NKRO through USB? Every keyboard I've seen advertising it is 6KRO over USB and NKRO with a USB->PS/2 adapter.

It's possible with a special driver. Basically the keyboard tells the PC that it is 3 keyboards. That can cause problems with some mainboards, but it exists. If you have the choice I would always use a PS/2 port.

[ZellSF]

Most PS/2 keyboards sold today have USB adapters, so you can buy one and use PS/2 for NKRO wherever possible and USB for 6KRO wherever else.

And I agree about avoiding Razer if you care about reliability. Great mice, but don't expect them to last long. Also hating Microsoft and Logitech mice (for difference reasons), my options are pretty limited

[drauch]

I'm currently using a Rosewill RK-9000 with Cherry blues. I really enjoy the old mechanical sound, and I mainly use it for typing and such, so I love 'em.

I wish I would have seen this thread yesterday, Newegg and Amazon had them on sale for $60 and there was an additional $20 rebate on NE.

At Gradius: If you need it, look for a keyboard that advertises NKRO with PS/2. Tom's has a pretty good article about keyboards here and OCN has a thread for mech. keyboard suggestions.

Damn! Nice price on that. Yeah, I've noticed they have been getting cheaper. I bought mine nigh on a year ago for about $100 shipped. Seems like they're down to about $80 now when not on sale.

[Ed Oscuro]

Hmm, November 7th was the 30th anniversary of Cherry's introduction of the MX-series switches. Surprised they've been around that long!

There are many different switch types, but this page has a list of all the types, and their various parameters:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX

For a guide to what the terms refer to, like Actuation and Hysteresis:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Switch_terminology

However, it's good to look at the various articles for each switch type to see what works best for you. Twitch gamers seem to like the brown keys, if I remember right; the CODE keyboard I link above has a MX Clear switch instead. MX Blue is found in some gaming keyboards but apparently can be more difficult to rapidly press in some game types - I am staying away from that one; I like a short engagement/reset distance (at least in theory). While the actuation force in Cherry Blue switches is low, brown and red switches are slightly lower, and the clear switches are slightly higher (50, 45, 45, and 55 centinewtons for all four types respectively). It'll be interesting to see how these things compare with my current rubber dome keyboard, which allows for rapid button presses if you know what you're doing.

[blizzz]

I think you're confusing browns with blacks. The only real difference between brown and blue switches is that blues make the clicking sound. Both have tactile feedback. They can also be pressed very rapidly because you clearly feel the actuating point.

Black and red are linear and have no feedback of the actuating point. Gaming keyboards mostly use these, though blue switches became a bit more popular for gaming in the last years.

The switch type is a very personal thing. You should try them out in a store before you spend $200 on a keyboard. That also means that some people will prefer a good rubberdome keyboard over a Cherry MX.

[Captain]

So, after about 50 optimised FPS/MMO gaming keyboards, including some of your suggestions, I found a "optimized keyboard for FPS and STG games.


this is the best keyboard i have ever used, and no ghosting whatsoever.

solid buy.

[Lord of Pirates]

I'm currently using a Rosewill RK-9000 with Cherry blues. I really enjoy the old mechanical sound, and I mainly use it for typing and such, so I love 'em.

I wish I would have seen this thread yesterday, Newegg and Amazon had them on sale for $60 and there was an additional $20 rebate on NE.

At Gradius: If you need it, look for a keyboard that advertises NKRO with PS/2. Tom's has a pretty good article about keyboards here and OCN has a thread for mech. keyboard suggestions.

Damn! Nice price on that. Yeah, I've noticed they have been getting cheaper. I bought mine nigh on a year ago for about $100 shipped. Seems like they're down to about $80 now when not on sale.

I considered getting three or four but I only needed two . This is the cheapest I've seen for a full size board, most are still $70+ like you said.

Which keyboard did you get, Gradius?

[Ed Oscuro]

I think you're confusing browns with blacks.

Did you look at the site I linked? That's where the information comes from. Cherry's site (here) supports most of it, but doesn't seem to have the Brown and Red switches listed; neither do the PDF files seem to have that information. Of course it's an open question about whether those terms - "actuation" and "hysteresis" - really do map to the properties we want in keys, I agree if that's the queston. But I don't think that I've made a mistake in copying information over.

Agreed about a good rubber dome / membrane keyboard possibly being a better choice than mechanical switches for some.

I'd like to test out a good mechanical keyboard in a shop but I honestly don't expect any to stock them...and I wouldn't want to try one with the wrong kinds of keys and form inaccurate opinions about keyboards with other kinds of keys.

Bottom line, though, Cherry Blues sound like the wrong choice for me: key travel, higher actuation force, clicky sound.

[blizzz]

Blue vs Brown vs Black switches

Blue and Brown are very similar for typing. Both have tactile feedback right before the actuation point. The main difference is the clicking sound of the Blue switches. I doubt that you can notice the 5cN difference for pressing the key. Blue switches will force your finger back up when you release them, which makes them not ideal for hammering on the key. But for what game do you actually need that? Mario Party?
I wouldn't recommend Blue switches for games that require you to tap a key for a long time. Arcade sticks are better suited for that. But I also wouldn't recommend Brown switches for that.

Blacks are the most common in gaming gear. For example Steelseries uses them. They require more force, which means that you will less likely accidentally activate a key. Red is also quite common. It is basically the same as Black but requires less force. I personally don't like that they don't offer feedback. If you have a perfect feeling for the actuation point you can trigger them extremely fast. Blues have been on the rise for gaming lately because they offer the maximum feedback. Brown switches are most commonly used in non-gaming keyboards.

You should be able to test at least black/red switches in a store. There are some mainstream gaming keyboards that should be on display. Look at the more expensive ones and look at the box or check with your smartphone what kind of switches they use. Finding a keyboard with Brown switches in a store might be hard though.