Under Defeat - Holy shit, this game rocks!

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CIT
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Under Defeat - Holy shit, this game rocks!

Post by CIT »

Was in Nagoya yesterday, and naturally I stopped by Kanayama Alice, one of Nagoya's arcades for all the shooter freaks, to see if they had Under Defeat in.

Well, they did, so of course I didn't hesitate to waste a few credits (well, not after a rather lengthy wait, as the game is pretty popular). Here are my first impressions :D :

Graphics: I'm sure most of you have already seen some screens and/or videos, but anyway, this game looks fantastic! Much better than anything I've seen on Taito's five year younger Type X. The game is rich in textures, with lots of detail in the background (or should I say, on-ground). You're actually flying over rivers, ravines, forrests, dunes, etc, as opposed to a flat plane with a repeating 40x40 pixel pattern on it, as in Homura (blergh!). There's also a lot of detail in the stuff getting blown up. Lots of glowing shrapnel and smoldering chunks flying through the air. When you shoot tanks the turrets get blown of first, before the body explodes on the next impact. Nice little referrence to all those military shooters of the olden days ;) , I'm not sure how well it fits with the overall realism of the experience though.

You've probably noticed the game's view isn't totally perpendicular to the ground, but rather at a slight offset angle, about 75° off the ground. I was a bit sceptical about this at first (Nanostray, Silpheed, etc), but actually the angle is about the same at which the screen of a Naomi cab is angled, so it feels very natural, and actually enhances your upper field of vision. Very nice!

And then there's of course the two babes in their proto-SS uniforms, who can say no to that. :)

Sound: Since the game is new, the volume was turned up all the way. The music is pretty similar to the smothh jazzy stuff in Border Down. Not my favorite shooter music, but pretty good nontheless. What really blew me away though were the sound effects. Man, when stuff explodes in this game, it REALLY explodes. None of that "fop! fop! fop!" shit you get in Ikaruga, this game goes all out "Badoooom!" and "Bhoooosh!" everytime you hit something.

Gameplay: Okay, down to the nuts and bolts. It's already well known that you can switch your heli's orientation either 45° to the left or right. This is done simply by moving either left or right while not firing. Then hold fire again, and the heli's orientation will be locked-in. Before starting to play you can select, whether you want to fire right, by moving left (and vice versa), or whether you would like to fire in the direction that you moved.
Not firing also does something else: It fills up your option meter. Start firing again with a full meter and a little option will appear to help you out. This option will stay at whatever orientation your heli was, when you dropped it off (so left, right or center) so you want to use the option to maximum effect by creating a devastating crossfire, or aiming it at some gigantic turret, while you take care of a swarm of little helicopters, etc. The option does have AI though, so once it attacks an enemy, it will continue attacking him from its angle even if he moves around, until the enemy is destroyed or the option timer has run out. The three collectible extra weapons are also meant for the option. The extra icons cycle through all weapons, and there is a vulcan, cannon and rockets.

Bombs can also be collected in the levels, and by bombs i mean like bunker-piercing thermonuclear devices, as these things have to be seen to be believed. They start with a small primary blast, upon which follows a screen filling and earth shattering secondary shockwave. Absolutely cool, but only meant as a last resort.

My main gripe with the game was the hitbox. Maybe it's because I've been playing Touhou shooters recently, so I'm not used to crashing when any part of me gets hit. I already talked about the realism of the graphics and sounds, but even the enemy fire feels very much like real warfare. No swirly bullet patterns here, just straight up volleys of enemy bullets, rockets, etc coming straight atcha. Trying to weave between bullets is thus very dangerous, so it's best to just always go straight for a large opening, and try to direct the rythm of enemy fire, by not staying in the same place for very long. Luckily the enemy fire always starts slower, and then speeds up, giving you some time to think about your next move.

Scoring is very uncomplicated, as least as far as I could tell. Depending on how many of the enemies you were able to destroy, your score gets multiplied at the stage clear screen. Using the option to destroy something gives you a bonus, as do left over bombs. High boss scores are rewarded according to the speed at which you dispensed them.


Overall: This game feels like the Medal Of Honor of shooting games. It looks great, it's loud and it feels like real war. The controls are intuitive and fun, and gameplay is very tactical, almost like a vertical hori-shooter. In this the game is probably the most old-school style one we've seen in many years, and it's been a long time, since I've been so thrilled simply at blowing shit up on a big scale (I think Einhänder was the last game that did this for me). In fact, I've been depressed all day for not being able to play Under Defeat. :wink:

So far I find this game absolutely brilliant, and I'd give it a preliminary score of 9.5/10. Finally a new shooter with that classic R-Type "I'll try once more and use the option in this way!" gameplay.

Now where's the news of a home port? :?
Last edited by CIT on Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Marc
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Post by Marc »

Thanks for the impressions man, I'm sure from the sound of it there'll be more than a few of us board members excited about this one. Sounds fantastic, the old-school feel really appeals to me, would be great to see a conversion.
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Post by CIT »

Yeah, I just hope it's not on the 360 though. Don't want to buy that shit just to play this game. In that case I might as well buy a Naomi instead.
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Post by zinger »

Thanks a lot SF. I'm actually hoping to see this one on 360, which I'll have to buy because of Senkou (and I'd like atleast one other good game to play on the system).
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Post by chtimi-CLA »

that sounds awesome especially the explosions and classic aimed bullets gameplay. this would be a much better last DC game than senko too.
is the "silpheed view" very noticeable? it never occured to me watching the official videos. that's the only thing i would have some reserves about, that and the border down like music.
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Post by D »

Wow what a great review.
You hit so many nails on the head with that review.

I have been excited about this game since I saw the first videos of it!

And the controls are just the way I hoped them to be (like the copter in SWS)

The options system sounds very cool and indeed we need baboooom and not zap zap......

Thanks for the impressions
*waiting for more impressions"

Let me just quickly check my pockets if I have enough to purchase the NAOMI kit,......hold up.......wait...........no :cry:
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Post by CIT »

chtimi wrote:that sounds awesome especially the explosions and classic aimed bullets gameplay. this would be a much better last DC game than senko too.
Of course a DC port would be amazing, but that would amount to a miracle at this point. I'm hoping at least for PS2.
is the "silpheed view" very noticeable? it never occured to me watching the official videos. that's the only thing i would have some reserves about, that and the border down like music.
The angle isn't as low as Silpheed. In Silpheed the "camera" is like 45° off the ground, whereas in Under Defeat it's more like 75°. As I said, sitting at a cab, this angle actually gives you a greater awareness of what's going on at the top of the screen, so it didn't bother me.
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Post by Fighter17 »

Thanks for the review!


I can be happy that G. Rev made a good shooter this time around. :)
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Post by Diabollokus »

DC would be nice but hell, I just hope it gets released.

Good review, sounds like a great shmup with no manic crap in it.
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Post by professor ganson »

I was already impressed with this one by the artistic style of the pics I'd seen. Now I can't wait. If no one else picks it up, surely Nintendo will. Right? Please. :(
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Post by metallica_tyler »

I don't see why you wouldn't want to get a Xbox360?

The fact that Treasure is making a 2-d shooter for it makes it an instant buy.
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Post by LUNardei »

Seems interesting. Where can I find some videos?
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Post by Dave_K. »

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Post by Vexorg »

zinger wrote:Thanks a lot SF. I'm actually hoping to see this one on 360, which I'll have to buy because of Senkou (and I'd like atleast one other good game to play on the system).
Two words: Geometry Wars. And for only $5 too.
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Post by highlandcattle »

Muntant Storm 360
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Post by LUNardei »

Dave_K. wrote: I guess you haven't read the longer thread on this:
...
Exactly. Thank you very much :wink:
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Post by sven666 »

sounds great.. blew my hopes of a gunsmoke-type controll out the window tho but nice anyways.. :)
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Post by dave4shmups »

metallica_tyler wrote:I don't see why you wouldn't want to get a Xbox360?

The fact that Treasure is making a 2-d shooter for it makes it an instant buy.
That's only one 2D shooter-which may not even come out on the American 360, and, in any case, even if it does, IMO, still wouldn't justify $400+HDTV to have it looking it's best.

At any rate, thanks for the review Seven Force! :D Here's hoping for a home port as well!

How do you think the 360 will do in Japan? I know it hasn't been released in Japan yet, but have you noticed any general (positive or negative) reactions to it over there? I was watching G4TV's launch coverage last night, and Microsoft was saying that one of their main goals this time around is to appeal more to Japanese gamers-with the sleeker design and more Japanese developers on board-considering that the XBOX tanked over in Asia.
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Post by zinger »

Vexorg wrote:
zinger wrote:Thanks a lot SF. I'm actually hoping to see this one on 360, which I'll have to buy because of Senkou (and I'd like atleast one other good game to play on the system).
Two words: Geometry Wars. And for only $5 too.
But that's not made by ex Taito members, and features perhaps the best videogame soundtrack ever made, does it? :)
Looks pretty cool though.
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Post by MOSQUITO FIGHTER »

This looks great to me. Those smoke plumes on the explosions are impressive. Puts Type-X hardware to shame. Sound effects have a nice crunch. I actually enjoyed Border Down quite alot.
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Post by Acid King »

dave4shmups wrote:
That's only one 2D shooter-which may not even come out on the American 360, and, in any case, even if it does, IMO, still wouldn't justify $400+HDTV to have it looking it's best.
You know, it does work with old fashioned TVs as well...
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Post by dave4shmups »

Acid King wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:
That's only one 2D shooter-which may not even come out on the American 360, and, in any case, even if it does, IMO, still wouldn't justify $400+HDTV to have it looking it's best.
You know, it does work with old fashioned TVs as well...
Yeah but it probably doesn't look any better then the first XBOX on older TV's-I've heard different, but, again, until I see a 360 running on a composite TV, I simply don't believe it. Remember, this is a console that is optimized for HDTV; unlike previous consoles, which were not optimized for a certain type of TV.
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Post by Acid King »

dave4shmups wrote: Yeah but it probably doesn't look any better then the first XBOX on older TV's-I've heard different, but, again, until I see a 360 running on a composite TV, I simply don't believe it. Remember, this is a console that is optimized for HDTV; unlike previous consoles, which were not optimized for a certain type of TV.
Wait a second... are you saying that an Xbox 360 running on a composite tv won't look any better than a regular Xbox running on the same tv? Are you kidding me?
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Post by Nei First »

Damn, I think I'm more excited about trying this game than Ibara. :shock:

Is this wrong? Is this weird? Have I missed something? :?
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Post by superhitachi4 »

Acid King wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:
That's only one 2D shooter-which may not even come out on the American 360, and, in any case, even if it does, IMO, still wouldn't justify $400+HDTV to have it looking it's best.
You know, it does work with old fashioned TVs as well...
360 has VGA support too. (through an adapter)
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Post by dave4shmups »

Acid King wrote:
dave4shmups wrote: Yeah but it probably doesn't look any better then the first XBOX on older TV's-I've heard different, but, again, until I see a 360 running on a composite TV, I simply don't believe it. Remember, this is a console that is optimized for HDTV; unlike previous consoles, which were not optimized for a certain type of TV.
Wait a second... are you saying that an Xbox 360 running on a composite tv won't look any better than a regular Xbox running on the same tv? Are you kidding me?
If it will look better, then why in the world are games like GUN and Call of Duty 2 being released on both the XBOX, PS2, and the 360?? :? Why release a game on both the XBOX and the 360, other then to see the game look that much better on HDTV?
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Post by BulletMagnet »

Hmm, interesting...IIRC preliminary opinions of this game weren't all that hot, but I suppose there's at least some redemption to be found therein. It doesn't sound like its style of play would instantly appeal to me right off the bat, but obviously I'd be willing to at least give it a try if I ever got the shot...here's hoping for a decent port someplace.
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Post by zakk »

dave4shmups wrote:
Acid King wrote:
dave4shmups wrote: Yeah but it probably doesn't look any better then the first XBOX on older TV's-I've heard different, but, again, until I see a 360 running on a composite TV, I simply don't believe it. Remember, this is a console that is optimized for HDTV; unlike previous consoles, which were not optimized for a certain type of TV.
Wait a second... are you saying that an Xbox 360 running on a composite tv won't look any better than a regular Xbox running on the same tv? Are you kidding me?
If it will look better, then why in the world are games like GUN and Call of Duty 2 being released on both the XBOX, PS2, and the 360?? :? Why release a game on both the XBOX and the 360, other then to see the game look that much better on HDTV?
I had a long post typed up about the obvious failing in logic here; but really, this is a thread about a Naomi arcade game. Why are we getting off on tangets about how the xbox360 will look hooked up to a composite input? Seriously, some self control about on-topic here, people.
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Post by dave4shmups »

zakk wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:
Acid King wrote: Wait a second... are you saying that an Xbox 360 running on a composite tv won't look any better than a regular Xbox running on the same tv? Are you kidding me?
If it will look better, then why in the world are games like GUN and Call of Duty 2 being released on both the XBOX, PS2, and the 360?? :? Why release a game on both the XBOX and the 360, other then to see the game look that much better on HDTV?
I had a long post typed up about the obvious failing in logic here; but really, this is a thread about a Naomi arcade game. Why are we getting off on tangets about how the xbox360 will look hooked up to a composite input? Seriously, some self control about on-topic here, people.
OK, my apologies for some serious rabbit-trailing, Zakk, and everyone else. :oops: But if you're going to point out my "failing in logic", then please at least PM me the thread with your post so that I can read your argument.

Back OT, honestly, I was impressed with Under Defeat from the begining-the massive explosions just amazed me, and still continue to be one of the things I find most impressive about this game! :D I hope that if there is a home port of this shmup, that it will have the option, ala Raiden DX, to turn off the sound so that you can hear the booming explosions that much louder! :D
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Post by ROBOTRON »

This game really has me excited...I hope it hits a console soon.
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