Ibara Announced for PS2!!!

[Randorama]

It's pretty much guaranteed not to.

We'll be getting a lot fewer ports if the demand for 'true low res' gets high. Would you rather the games not be ported at all?

This is so ridiculously minor. Everyone needs to get bent already.

It's not minor, but there's so little concern in the industry for maintaining native res that we don't really have a choice anymore. Owning Cave PCBs is not feasible for me, so I will continue to buy their PS2 ports, scaling and interlacing and all.

Discussion over how faithful a port is should always be welcome, however, regardless of how much of a choice we have.

Well, minor note, but i'd say that it would be better to voice this concern to the makers themselves (maybe trying to find similar attitudes among the players of the core market, i.e. Japan), than raving on English-based forums. Well, aside from the raving (which has *oddly* disapparead of late, i wonder why????) , i think that the discourse itself could (and maybe should) expanded, to be of any weight on companies' decisions.

[captain ahar]

You guys are in for a treat.
AND YOU BETTER PARTICIPATE IN THE HIGHSCORE THREAD! ^_-

you bet i will, but expect me to rank lower than bulletmagnet... yes, that's right, bulletmagnet.

**funnin, given our previous discussions about who is THE general bottom in ranking, i just couldn't help myself. ^_~ **

and i am still holding back my screams. yay for my self control!

[DC906270]

anyone who has a ps2 and isnt willing to pay $60 for a game with (minor) flaws & all that would otherwise cost $1000 for the "perfect" pcb, needs to have a word with themselves if you ask me

ibara is a really cool game - different to usual cave style and i will JUMP on this when it comes out. i think the mushi port is near as dammit arcade perfect anyways and i dont know what people winge about with this hi res/low res thing. if ibara is as good a port as this i will be well happy.

when i was in tokyo, there were a lot more mushi machines about than ibara ones, if that is any indication of popoularity of the game in its native country.

off topic : i have smashed my 4m point points barrier on mushi by now!!

[landshark]

How close does the gameplay resemble Bakraid/Garegga? Meaning, do you have to constantly die to control rank?

*sighs*

You don't have to die constantly in garegga to control rank...

Since when? I've never seen anyone go through the game without purposely dying to lower rank.

[GaijinPunch]

It's not minor. It arguably looks like shit. You can still play it though. In all honesty, Mushi burns my eyes, but I still like it.

[captain ahar]

its easy! just don't fire (at all) or pick up (any) powerups

[professor ganson]

How close does the gameplay resemble Bakraid/Garegga? Meaning, do you have to constantly die to control rank?

*sighs*

You don't have to die constantly in garegga to control rank...

Since when? I've never seen anyone go through the game without purposely dying to lower rank.

I think CMoon was responding to your use of "constantly." My impression is that rank doesn't become a huge issue until later in the game, at or after stage 4 or so. Since I never get that far without dying once or twice, rank really isn't an issue for me as a Garegga player. But I wonder: Isn't it an overstatement to say that one must constantly perish to keep rank manageable? I tend to avoid replays; perhaps I should check one out in this case.

[BulletMagnet]

Personally, i'll enjoy the useless debates while slapping BM (because he's the root of evil!!1! * )

I'm donning my black cape, spiky metal gauntlets, and skull-with-ram-horns helmet as we speak. Go forth and conquer, my legion of darkness! And don't bomb or suicide while you're doing it, either!

you bet i will, but expect me to rank lower than bulletmagnet... yes, that's right, bulletmagnet.

Avast, ye'll never take me bottom spot alive!

[Plasmo]

btw:
Why hasnt anyone mentioned the music yet?!
I think its absolutely awesome and even if the techno-like Espgaluda music was good: this will definitely be Caves best soundtrack for me.
Looking forward to buy the OST...
<-metalhead is

[BulletMagnet]

I think CMoon was responding to your use of "constantly." My impression is that rank doesn't become a huge issue until later in the game, at or after stage 4 or so. Since I never get that far without dying once or twice, rank really isn't an issue for me as a Garegga player. But I wonder: Isn't it an overstatement to say that one must constantly perish to keep rank manageable? I tend to avoid replays; perhaps I should check one out in this case.

As I see it, the main idea of keeping rank down in Garegga is surviving with as little "stockpiling" of anything as possible: since the more bullets you fire the higher the rank goes, do as well as you can with relatively low main shot power and few options for as long as you can. Dying drops rank, BUT not only that, the fewer lives you have in reserve, the more it drops: dying with 3 lives in reserve isn't as effective for rank control as losing your last extra life. As such, you can't stockpile lives either, 1) because not dying for that long will boost the rank that whole time, and 2) as stated before, when you DO die, it won't do as much. As for bombs, since you need lives to spare in order to keep rank down, you have to score well to keep the extends coming: aside from medaling and stuff, using small bits of bomb fragments all over the place to score more points and get more medals is vital for this, so stockpiling "full" bombs is not a good idea either.

Basically, you have to practice enough to be able to get through a good chunk of the game with few resources, since later on you're going to have to say "heck with rank control" and stock up when things get really hairy; if you've controlled rank well enough early on, the last stage or two will be manageable enough for you to finish. More or less, you have to scoff at the opponents: "Hah! I do not need power-ups or bombs to beat the likes of you! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!" or something like that, heh.

But as Icarus says, until you're comfortable enough with the game to start limiting yourself, just ignore rank and collect stuff and blast everything. The game demands an incredible amount of dedication and practice to get the hang of (including quite a bit of study of the FAQ in the Strategy section), so be patient. To give you some idea, I don't watch replays, since I prefer to figure most stuff out on my own: Garegga's the only shmup I've ever watched a full-run replay of.

[shariar07]

I'm hoping this game is on DVD, i don't like those noises from CD based games.

I guess Shikigami III is the final Taito Type X shmup game

[jiji]

Well, minor note, but i'd say that it would be better to voice this concern to the makers themselves (maybe trying to find similar attitudes among the players of the core market, i.e. Japan), than raving on English-based forums. Well, aside from the raving (which has *oddly* disapparead of late, i wonder why????) , i think that the discourse itself could (and maybe should) expanded, to be of any weight on companies' decisions.

I have a hard time believing that there are very many Japanese publishers that cater to so exclusive a Japanese audience who care about the opinions of their Western fans. G.rev and Triangle Service might be a couple of developers who listen to western fans, but I don't think Taito (i.e. the party in charge of porting so many of these games) gives a flying rat, really. It'd be nice if a (paper) letter-writing would have any effect on the decisions of those in charge, but I tend to take a pretty pessimistic view of any attempt like that.

Back to the subject of the game proper, hopefully there will be an arrange mode or a 'tweaked' mode in which the bosses are more properly balanced. Most complaints I've heard regarding the game is that the boss difficulty is just ridiculous - even experienced players can't beat them without simply stocking bombs and using them all on bosses.

[Randorama]

I have a hard time believing that there are very many Japanese publishers that cater to so exclusive a Japanese audience who care about the opinions of their Western fans. G.rev and Triangle Service might be a couple of developers who listen to western fans, but I don't think Taito (i.e. the party in charge of porting so many of these games) gives a flying rat, really. It'd be nice if a (paper) letter-writing would have any effect on the decisions of those in charge, but I tend to take a pretty pessimistic view of any attempt like that.

Yeah, i actually meant that joining up forces with JAPANESE fans might be better than "OMG i can't have funz with the ugly res-low-filtered browuahah". After all, there are some Japanese-literate here, no?... (<--- quote!)

Back to the subject of the game proper, hopefully there will be an arrange mode or a 'tweaked' mode in which the bosses are more properly balanced. Most complaints I've heard regarding the game is that the boss difficulty is just ridiculous - even experienced players can't beat them without simply stocking bombs and using them all on bosses.

Bosses are balanced, the Gradius way though. If you know how and when to bomb, they're relatively doable - else you're fried. The core issue is that since bosses are women (so to speak) and women are supposed to have a highly mutable personality, you need to know their weak points to take them down...






Yagawa is a loon

[CMoon]

*sighs*

You don't have to die constantly in garegga to control rank...

Since when? I've never seen anyone go through the game without purposely dying to lower rank.

I think CMoon was responding to your use of "constantly." My impression is that rank doesn't become a huge issue until later in the game, at or after stage 4 or so. Since I never get that far without dying once or twice, rank really isn't an issue for me as a Garegga player. But I wonder: Isn't it an overstatement to say that one must constantly perish to keep rank manageable? I tend to avoid replays; perhaps I should check one out in this case.

I'm imagining this is going to balloon into a huge anti-garrega thread, but professor gets pretty much right...

I imagine if your goal is to 1cc the game and/or get some crazy score, you will eventually have to suicide, or as Rando says, rise to the challenge of the increased rank. As usual, I wish these videos did not exist, because there is a logic that since they do it in the video, you MUST do it.

The truth about garegga is that even a below average player (such as myself) can get to level 4 & 5 without much thought toward rank. After this point, you simply must be an AMAZING player, regardless of rank.

Rank is definitely important, and you can feel it early on, but the first half of the game can be played oblivious to rank. What I find ironic is how easy these first levels are (even with absurd rank) compared to the average cave game without rank. Or Mars Matrix for instance. To me, this complaint is like Woody Allen's comment on the two old women at a resturaunt: "The food is so bad here..." "And the portions are so small!"

Essentially, if you are good enough to really NEED expert rank management, you should also be good enough to deal with the very difficult rank, and you'll need to be to score as well as you see in those videos anyway. So what sort of complaint is this? At this level of play, if you are still playing the game, you must like it anyway...

[professor ganson]

To me, this complaint is like Woody Allen's comment on the two old women at a resturaunt: "The food is so bad here..." "And the portions are so small!"

Woody Allen made a joke about life/death that is parallel in structure:
We have two complaints about life. One: that it is terrible. Two: that it is too short.

[BulletMagnet]

I imagine if your goal is to 1cc the game and/or get some crazy score, you will eventually have to suicide, or as Rando says, rise to the challenge of the increased rank.

Well, if you're not playing with either a high score or a 1CC at least somewhere in mind, what are you playing for? Obviously, being a low-level player myself, I don't boot a game up expecting to set records, but even in my state I at least try to improve myself a bit each time I play, even if I don't see a high score or a one-credit anywhere in the near future (or ever, heh heh). I suppose that you could just be satisfied to play through those first few levels ad infinitum without ever bothering with rank, but I guess that's just not my mindset...

[Neon]

What I find ironic is how easy these first levels are (even with absurd rank) compared to the average cave game without rank.

I disagree strongly. I don't think I'll ever do even the first level as well as on some of the replays I've seen. The level of depth in Garegga is ridiculous (in a good way).

Even 'ignoring rank' you're going to have to suicide to properly medal that one ship at the beginning of level 2, or to get enough bombs to go for tons o' points on the hidden flamingoes.

I don't view this as a bad thing, per se. It's just different from traditional shooters.

Uhm, back to Ibara

[BulletMagnet]

I think he was referring to just being able to finish the stages and survive, scoring notwithstanding.

[Valgar]

Suicide is an attack itself. I don't know why you guys feel so bad about it. Just think, you're more manly by leaving no lives left. Living on the edge.

[Icarus]

I was expecting this to turn into a Garegga rank debate.

The simplest way to describe suicide tactics in Garegga is this: I do it to score. I don't pay much attention to timing them for rank control, my primary concern is the half full Weapon bonus I get from dying, which is best used on scoring targets.

Like I theorised a long time ago in past Ibara threads, Ibara is played with bomb hoarding in mind, as careful use of the hadou in certain spots (to destroy lines of drones that drop items when bombed) and to eliminate the Rose sisters quickly. Planning of scoring based suicides for these purposes are key to proficient scoring.

The only difference being, this Raizing game take Cave's trademark fast stages and route-based stage scoring/maneuvering in part. ^_-

And I like Valgar's comment. ^_^ If you're too scared to live your (last) life on the edge, then Garegga and their brethren are not the kind of games you will want to play. Cave's pink-bullet filled games make you take risks by navigating a tiny hitbox through bullet spam, Raizing games make you take a different, more calculated sort of risk.

[BulletMagnet]

I was expecting this to turn into a Garegga rank debate.

Well, at least it's (so far) a benign one, right?

[CMoon]

I imagine if your goal is to 1cc the game and/or get some crazy score, you will eventually have to suicide, or as Rando says, rise to the challenge of the increased rank.

Well, if you're not playing with either a high score or a 1CC at least somewhere in mind, what are you playing for?

One might similarly ask that if you aren't living to make ALL the money or inseminate ALL the women, why are you bothering?

Again, way back in the day people used to play for fun. Tons of shooters didn't even have advanced scoring techniques--they are definitely there, but you don't have to play it THAT way...

I disagree strongly. I don't think I'll ever do even the first level as well as on some of the replays I've seen. The level of depth in Garegga is ridiculous (in a good way).

Even 'ignoring rank' you're going to have to suicide to properly medal that one ship at the beginning of level 2, or to get enough bombs to go for tons o' points on the hidden flamingoes.

*sighs* But one doesn't have to play Garegga for score and in fact many shmups are quite a bit of fun without digging into advanced scoring mechanics (unlike Ikaruga for instance where there is pretty much chaining and THATS IT). If you ignore the whole scoring bit, Garegga plays quite a bit like strikers and so forth and is a considerable amount of fun. If you are just playing for score then it is another matter, but at that point it is virtually a different game, which I think is where my thoughts on the game are very different than others.

Anyway, my point to the original comment is that Garegga does NOT require any of this suiciding but rather players have found the technique useful for advanced scoring potential, etc. There is nothing which says you must play this way, and it does NOT hinder the gameplay if you NEVER suicide (though it will start to get very hard later--like so many other shmups.)

[Neon]

If you ignore the whole scoring bit, Garegga plays quite a bit like strikers and so forth and is a considerable amount of fun.

Joking, right? "Strikers and so forth," is up there with 'everything needs to have a Dreamcast port' in terms of ridiculousness.

Garegga = medalling, rank, suicide, learning the places to bomb (i.e. flamingoes, 'bars' on the water stage, etc.) the list could go on, check the ST.

Strikers = if the coin is shinier, it's worth more points. Rank goes up with each powerup.

But if you're going to ignore all that, you might as well sell Garegga and buy Strikers. You'll make $60 and you can still mindlessly dodge things.

You may not find playing for score to be fun, but in Garegga it's somewhat necessary to improve. While in strikers you could ignore the gold bars, or Ikaruga the chains, Garegga requires at least some thought. I'm not an expert but I don't think you'd ever get past stage 5 without at least some rank management/suicides.

I've had too much coffee today. On with Ibara and z0mg low res...

[pixelcorps]

i'll be buying, wonder if there'll be a limited edition? if so hopefully the game will get the better figure than the soundtrack this time!!

and please taito!! proper res.... PLEASE???

[gameoverDude]

Suicide is an attack itself. I don't know why you guys feel so bad about it. Just think, you're more manly by leaving no lives left. Living on the edge.

A good example in Battle Garegga is in the Plant (stage 4) where you see a group of several large tanks lined up across the screen. If you time a death right when they're around, the shrapnel from your ship can take them down.

Fewer lives in reserve does temper the rank increase IIRC in Garegga.

[WarpZone]

btw:
Why hasnt anyone mentioned the music yet?!

I quite like what I heard in videos as well, and it's nice to see the soundtrack differ a bit from the Cave norm given the different approach to the gameplay. It seems the second loop may have different music as well...

_____________

I'd be a little surprised if the rank issue in Ibara is as hotly debated as in Garegga. From what I've been able to follow (from Icarus' posts, the high score thread, etc), Ibara can be played for a 1CC without suiciding and advanced rank management (whereas it would be necessary only for a higher score). Garegga doesn't seem to have as clear of a split, with 1CC seekers always seemingly running into "the issue".

_____________

It's nice to hear from Randorama's post that the game's characters actually play into the logic of boss battles rather than just being arbitrary. On that note, I think if suicides in this type of game were put into better context, there'd also be less player confusion/complaints. I'd like to see a game where after taking a critical hit, your plane bursts into flames as you literally ram it into the enemy for a final attack, killing your character, and taking over on the next life as someone else. I mean, you couldn't argue with something that cool

[CMoon]

If you ignore the whole scoring bit, Garegga plays quite a bit like strikers and so forth and is a considerable amount of fun.

Joking, right? "Strikers and so forth," is up there with 'everything needs to have a Dreamcast port' in terms of ridiculousness.

Garegga = medalling, rank, suicide, learning the places to bomb (i.e. flamingoes, 'bars' on the water stage, etc.) the list could go on, check the ST.

Strikers = if the coin is shinier, it's worth more points. Rank goes up with each powerup.

I do know how the game plays Neon, and I've already explained that with or without rank management I don't really get past level 5 anyway.

So here's my point again--if you are an average skilled player, this is not really an issue and you can play however you want. If you are a super-skilled player, then yes, you will need to do some of these things, though not with the orthodoxy that some posters on here imply. And super-skilled players have NO BUSINESS whining about gameplay mechanics.

[zinger]

btw:
Why hasnt anyone mentioned the music yet?!

I quite like what I heard in videos as well, and it's nice to see the soundtrack differ a bit from the Cave norm given the different approach to the gameplay. It seems the second loop may have different music as well...

Does anyone know who composed the music for Ibara?
What I heard in a few videos sounded Garegga-inspired (harmony-wise, atleast), but more towards anime rock, which is quite welcome I guess - I wouldn't want yet another typical Manabu Namiki soundtrack after Ketsui, DDPDOJ, Mushimimesama etc. BTW, the boss music rules, and so does the announcer.

I'd like to see a game where after taking a critical hit, your plane bursts into flames as you literally ram it into the enemy for a final attack, killing your character, and taking over on the next life as someone else. I mean, you couldn't argue with something that cool

That's a great idea. IIRC, you can drop a final bomb on your way towards the ground after being hit in Fire Shark. Pretty neat.

[Plasmo]

What I especially like about Garegga is that you dont have to feel bad after dying as in lets say Dodonpachi when you die with 6 bombs in stock.

[zinger]

What I especially like about Garegga is that you dont have to feel bad after dying as in lets say Dodonpachi when you die with 6 bombs in stock.

Yes, this is why I like Raizing games more than Cave's. It actually rewards you for dying, and bombing.