Cracked: Worse than HG101

[drauch]

I mainly just use HG101 as a quick source for port differences, and usually I get what I came for, and sometimes I'll read about a JP game I'm not too familiar with. I commend that.

I've been browsing the site for a good hour now, reading numerous reviews and such, and I've ran into four different series reviews in a row, all with the same problem: these games are too hard. Couple that with some mediocre writing and drab attemps at humor, and most of these come off as quite pathetic. I can easily understand some of the flack they receive a little better now. Seems like anything arcade oriented is "unfair" or "too hard," from multiple reviewers, even. Very disappoiting. Noting the difficulty would be on thing, but this comes off as very amateurish.

[blackoak]

I use it for the same things and enjoy it fwiw. Best as a preview/hype site of semi-exotic stuff imo. Sometimes I agree with a review's assessment, but if I've played the game deeply, it often becomes clear that the reviewer doesn't really know what they're talking about and can convey very little outside of aesthetics and superficial impressions. A phenomenon not unique to hg101, as we sadly all know.

[BrianC]

I mainly just use HG101 as a quick source for port differences, and usually I get what I came for, and sometimes I'll read about a JP game I'm not too familiar with. I commend that.

I've been browsing the site for a good hour now, reading numerous reviews and such, and I've ran into four different series reviews in a row, all with the same problem: these games are too hard. Couple that with some mediocre writing and drab attemps at humor, and most of these come off as quite pathetic. I can easily understand some of the flack they receive a little better now. Seems like anything arcade oriented is "unfair" or "too hard," from multiple reviewers, even. Very disappoiting. Noting the difficulty would be on thing, but this comes off as very amateurish.

yeah, I don't suggest debating continues on the forum there either.

[Ed Oscuro]

In HG101's defense, emulators and other stuff have made it very easy to live just on forums and off emulation, and options available now can cloud one's appreciation for games. (I have been thinking carefully about that whole issue and the matter of honesty after the surprising "Hardest Games" dustup when I revealed I just savestated my way through Gun Dec, which is not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination.)

I think honesty is important - there's being dishonest, which I don't accuse HG101 of being, but there's also being brutally honest with yourself about how your feelings and play style (not to mention expertise) compare with those of others, and what possible goods you are trying to achieve with your work. If you just credit feed or savestate through a game and opine that (not a HG101 quote, of course) "OMG it's too hard, but if it was easier it'd be too boring," at the least you're losing touch with what made it popular back in the day (even if the ground has shifted under classic gaming) and what continues to make it popular with many players. If you can't be brutally honest with yourself about what you want to get out of a game, and then ask whether you should expect other people to care about what you have to say with that in mind, then you just need to go sit in the corner for a while.

I don't think that every gaming site has to take on the "let's all be experts in Ninja Gaiden" full-throated defense bandwagon of platformers or whatever, but it would be nice if each site knows what it is doing, at least. Likewise, if Kotaku wants to be "social politics of vidya games," I say let 'em be.

I say these things with the full acknowledgement that it's easy to be an unattached free spirit who didn't put a lot of time recently into writing content, so I have to say that I do appreciate what they are doing well. I just wish it would actually be a capable mouthpiece and teaching tool for promoting the ethos and spirit of classic gaming.

[drauch]

I dunno, that's not much of a defense in my book. The words "hardcore" gaming and "emulation" and "save states" aren't very synchronous.

But honestly, I like them, and I'd be totally fine if certain reviewers admitted "hey, I suck at this game; it's really tough for me and I gave up," other than "it's impossible, it's cheap, and these are flaws, etc." A good game review should try and remain objective as possible, and any personal input--i.e. it's hard--should be noted for that person's ability or dedication to such a game, especially with something like an arcade title.

I don't expect experts. Especially when I'm pretty scrubby myself.

[BIL]

If you just credit feed or savestate through a game and opine that (not a HG101 quote, of course) "OMG it's too hard, but if it was easier it'd be too boring,"

Will these do? ;3 (quotes sourced from my private collection of authentic camel spine-shattering straws)

"Additionally, the game just moves slowly, and lacks any of the intensity you expect from an action game."

SOUNDS PRETTY DULL - WAIT, WHAT THE

"Since you're limited in credits, it's barely playable unless you stick it on the lowest difficulty level, in which case it can be somewhat enjoyable."

OH I SEE

If you can't be brutally honest with yourself about what you want to get out of a game, and then ask whether you should expect other people to care about what you have to say with that in mind, then you just need to go sit in the corner for a while.

"It must be horrible being compelled to buy games you hate based on sexual attraction to the prepubescent anime girls on the boxart" <-- CRACKIN' QUIP paraphrased from a Master Farrelly!

-Ninja Ryukenden Man X! ^_~

[KAI]

Don't forget the Milestone hate.

[Ed Oscuro]

But honestly, I like them, and I'd be totally fine if certain reviewers admitted "hey, I suck at this game; it's really tough for me and I gave up,"

But doesn't that call into question the whole project of saying "HEY CATALOG OF COOL GAMES HERE...it turns out I like them better from a distance" ? Full disclosure - I find this is true occasionally with games in my own collection (although a lot less than it might have been). Putting the coat back on now...

Leaving something intentionally unfinished is OK, but that is helped by humility, possibly the same kind of humility that entails not calling yourself a hardcore gamer when you've got a spine made of chalk. At the same time, it is a free country, and if we had the highest expectations for everybody, nothing would get done...I think what really needs to be done is we need to eventually put up something that is better.

It's also worth mentioning that there are probably projects out there that could handle this kind of straight facts regurgitation more usefully in some ways, like the GDRI seems to do quite well for looking up game developers.

@ BIL:
Well, I think many of the HG101 crowd is a bit more attracted to the aesthetic of a gameplay type, but not execution as much, maybe...it's a kind of hard thing to nail down, isn't it?

Not sure the loli remark fits, as much as I'd like to rag on them more.

[drauch]

I guess I should rephrase. If their entire article was of such a sentiment, yeah, they probably shouldn't be reviewing it on such a site. Billy Bob's Cool Game Review via blogspot would be fitting, but not by a site that considers themselves Hardcore.

I don't know. You're actually probably right. If you're going to be a HARDCORE gamer I guess such excuses probably wouldn't exist, unless it was say, Exile 2: Working Designs Unfinished Edition.

I guess Hardcore in this sense should probably just mean "play a shit ton of games and dig deep for them and harness an appreciation for all things gaming," which is why i still respect them, although some of their writers aren't always the most knowledgeable or skilled. Reading four series reviews in a row by different authors and seeing numerous complaints regarding almost game breaking difficulty was just a bit much, and that's coming from myself, AKA little bitch with no 1CCs under his belt. Such an attitude just sorta seems ignorant and lazy unless you're admitting your own faults because you haven't dedicated the time and effort.

[Ed Oscuro]

I think, to move things off in a helpful direction, I think that's where that community should get its shit together and actually push to give these games recognition for being good games, not just because of "SUGOI~"

[drauch]

You're definitely right about that. I'm kind of under the impression that so many gamers like this anymore discover X game, find X game, then stick it on a shelf, maybe popping it in once or twice or doing some silly little "GET" video. Too much emphasis on collecting and rarity, but only for consoles that are still easily accessible (no X6800K or DOS; that's too hard!). And I know I've beaten it into the ground at this point, but this is the YouTube video game community to a T.

[Ganelon]

I guess Hardcore in this sense should probably just mean "play a shit ton of games and dig deep for them and harness an appreciation for all things gaming," which is why i still respect them, although some of their writers aren't always the most knowledgeable or skilled. Reading four series reviews in a row by different authors and seeing numerous complaints regarding almost game breaking difficulty was just a bit much, and that's coming from myself, AKA little bitch with no 1CCs under his belt. Such an attitude just sorta seems ignorant and lazy unless you're admitting your own faults because you haven't dedicated the time and effort.

Yeah, the issue is that "hardcore" as a term is subjective and multifaceted. To the mainstream gamer, HG101's content focus is definitely hardcore and niche, and the articles are renowned for their detailed version comparisons (not always complete but almost always more complete than anything found outside a forum). As of late, HG101 has probably outdone Shmups in this regard. Lots of newer members here seem to be unfamiliar with what I'd consider borderline-niche games on my own gradient.

On the other hand, to some connoisseurs here, HG101's judgmental perspective is more mainstream on these niche games. Many of these classic games require dedication and repetition to finish, a level of repetition that isn't trivial by modern standards and probably isn't enjoyable to the mainstream gamer who expects to be reloaded 2 minutes prior to each death and have unlimited chances. Many Shmuppers will just put up gloves and duke it out but a mainstream player wouldn't stand for it.

There's also the "101" bit. The "too difficult" mentality is on target for how a freshman "hardcore gamer" might feel, but it might not be the best attitude to impart upon new gamers.

Does this dichotomy of promoting the existence of potentially interesting games (increasing awareness) but criticizing the difficulty of these games (decreasing commitment) encourage folks to just buy and not really play games? That seems to be the underlying question you're posing. I've actually never been introduced to an unheard-of game from HG101 that I felt compelled to buy (my own informational and inspirational sources were from before HG101 existed) but I certainly see short-term price upticks of certain games after they've received HG101 articles as well as slightly more mentioning of these games afterward. However, I don't recall ever encountering a player with either expert knowledge or expert skill in a game who credited HG101 with introducing him to that game. My answer to the above question would consequently be an empirical "yes."

Overall, I think HG101 is a solid resource built with great intentions. I believe the value of having the articles as reference far outweighs the comments on difficulty. Moreover, the split between mainstream and expert views on difficulty is an easy way to define sub-groups within the growing niche community.

[BIL]

Not sure the loli remark fits, as much as I'd like to rag on them more.

It hopefully doesn't, but particularly as a diehard gamer who owns many games with such boxarts I do LOL heartily @ it from time to time.

As you, drauch and Ganelon have much more articulately said above, I'm sure it's more of an attraction to the whiff of "xtreem hardcore gaming" that doesn't follow through with commitment or, and this is where I put the boot in, humility. Casual Hardcore Gaming 101.

I don't really care as long as they stay outta my face. GameFAQs' and Youtoob's self-appointed "hardcore" and their pearls of wisdom on the unsuitability of arcade games for mortal consumption go in the same bracket.

"FINALLY A GAME WHERE WE GEET GOOD SOUND!!!"

[greg]

Ignoring how this has evolved into whether or not HG101 is a decent site or not and going back to the dumb Cracked article, I'd say that more than the water levels in games (TMNT was just a poorly-designed game anyway), the dumb trap was to make falling into water an instant death. Unless a game establishes why exactly water kills you (the river is infested with piranhas, you're a robot and water will ruin you, the current will swipe you away, etc), then having the water be an instant death is just dumb. Just make the game character move slowly until they can get back onto a platform.

[Despatche]

it doesn't matter that the water kills you when the water in every game kills you.

'hardcore' shouldn't even be a word. the only great definition i can come up with for it is 'the desire and ability to learn', but having that is supposed to make you a decent human being; because the word itself otherwise suggests an exception and not what's supposed to be the norm, it's pointless. in the end you either be icycalm and call everyone subhumans or you just never think about the issue ever.

hg101 is terribly because they sound like a bunch of children just from the article, seem to do very little research to the point where every single article has some bizarre error, publicly refuse to take any big suggestions seriously (usually showing off their manchildren-ness during), and pose the giant risk of inflicting this disease on anyone who reads the place. sure, it could be said that people cause hg101 and not the other way around, but... see above.

[BIL]

Hardcore:

"An Anus Explosion death match was contested between Mr. Gannosuke and H in Frontier Martial-Arts Wrestling on October 29, 1998 in Korakuen Hall. The stipulations of the match stated that, in order to win a wrestler had to place a firecracker into their opponent's rectum, and have it explode. Gannosuke won this contest after bounding H with his hands around a corner turnbuckle, facing the audience."

~ "H would issue a challenge to Hayabusa, or Masashi Honda for the next Korakuen Hall show. H would request an Anal Explosion match, where the loser would have to have a firecracker set off in their ass, just like Eiji Ezaki & Masashi Honda had to do after graduating the FMW Dojo." ~

[Ed Oscuro]

Overall, I think HG101 is a solid resource built with great intentions. I believe the value of having the articles as reference far outweighs the comments on difficulty. Moreover, the split between mainstream and expert views on difficulty is an easy way to define sub-groups within the growing niche community.

This is all weighed against the perpetuation of stupid beliefs within the community, however.

I mostly agree with BIL - if you aren't in my face then I don't really have standing to complain much, but it would at least be nice to have some kind of site which tried to do things the right way.