NESRGB board available now

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shadowkn55
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by shadowkn55 »

Got my nesrgb board in today and got straight to work. It's a beautiful piece of engineering by viletim. Picture looks amazing on my pvm. I didn't get the onboard sound circuit to work so I tapped the usual spot for audio on nes top loader a/v mods. I found a 40pin socket that had a tighter grip than the supplied SIP sockets so I opted to use the SIP sockets for the PPU. The grip is strong enough where I don't need to worry about the nesrgb board popping off during transit. Absolutely no hot glue was used during assembly.

I can confirm that is enough room inside an nes top loader and av famicom where you can safely install a socket for the PPU. The spot where I mounted the regulator also doesn't interfere with the top shell. The regulator can be mounted in the same spot for the av famicom since both systems have the same exact footprint/bottom shell.

It's still a work in progress since the panel mount mini-din8 I want to use is still in the mail. For testing, I wired up a standard din8 so I could use my aes scart cable. Once that comes in, I'm pretty much done. All the signals are wired together through the same connector and I didn't notice any interference in video or audio.


Image
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Looks good. Clean work.

I was really worried about it fitting in a top loader. Seems like it fits fine.
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lettuce
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by lettuce »

sammargh wrote:A solder sucker + braid was giving me a hell of a time getting it out so I ended up picking up one of these things at radio shack
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2062731

$15 and it probably won't last for very long but it was cheap enough and made removing the PPU so easy it was worth the investment. Took like 1 minute to do it with the tool.
This is the closest thing i could find over here in the UK.....

http://www.maplin.co.uk/electric-de-sol ... ngth-96859
shadowkn55
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by shadowkn55 »

lettuce wrote:
sammargh wrote:A solder sucker + braid was giving me a hell of a time getting it out so I ended up picking up one of these things at radio shack
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2062731

$15 and it probably won't last for very long but it was cheap enough and made removing the PPU so easy it was worth the investment. Took like 1 minute to do it with the tool.
This is the closest thing i could find over here in the UK.....

http://www.maplin.co.uk/electric-de-sol ... ngth-96859
The desoldering iron I used for this job looks exactly like that except the piston is blue. You should be good with this one. The one-handed desoldering irons will make short work of the ppu.
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lettuce
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by lettuce »

shadowkn55 wrote:
lettuce wrote:
sammargh wrote:A solder sucker + braid was giving me a hell of a time getting it out so I ended up picking up one of these things at radio shack
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2062731

$15 and it probably won't last for very long but it was cheap enough and made removing the PPU so easy it was worth the investment. Took like 1 minute to do it with the tool.
This is the closest thing i could find over here in the UK.....

http://www.maplin.co.uk/electric-de-sol ... ngth-96859
The desoldering iron I used for this job looks exactly like that except the piston is blue. You should be good with this one. The one-handed desoldering irons will make short work of the ppu.

Cool, thanks
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opt2not
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by opt2not »

Damn, i missed out. If there is another batch, I'm interested in getting in on the action.
Hamburglar
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Hamburglar »

sammargh wrote: Don't worry about #1, that's related to Famicom or mods where you're not using the passthrough on the NESRGB board. So long as you put headers into the NES mobo you can just plug the PPU into the board and ignore #1

You are correct, all jumpers should be open except for J5 for NTSC. That one should be closed.

The thing in the pic looks like a header connector as the DIN port initially was likely to be removable but was abandoned.
adimifus wrote:That looks like a board that would attach to the 8-pin mini DIN connector (for RGB) to me. It looks different than the one included with the kit, but the arrangement of the through holes looks the same. Not sure what the black thing is.
Thank you both for the answers. I really appreciate it.

There's only one other thing I am iffy on. I am using a Sega Genesis model 1 RGB scart cable. It's a special one that uses raw sync.

Does this mean I would wire the CSYNC pin on the NESRGB to the CSYNC pin of the A/V port? Or should I wire composite anyway? Only asking because the guide and all the photos show composite hooked up but nothing going to the CSYNC pad.
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by evil_ash_xero »

opt2not wrote:Damn, i missed out. If there is another batch, I'm interested in getting in on the action.
He's supposed to be working on it. I think next month is the target.
leonk
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by leonk »

evil_ash_xero wrote:
opt2not wrote:Damn, i missed out. If there is another batch, I'm interested in getting in on the action.
He's supposed to be working on it. I think next month is the target.
I hope you're right.. otherwise this batch of boards will be worth almost as much as a Stadium Events cart (but a lot more fun to use!!)
markfrizb
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by markfrizb »

I got my nesrgb boards in and installed and connected the svideo connector and also rgb (using a VGA connector).
Rgb+sync is pixel perfect video! Very nice.
But I get nothing out of the S-video.

Any ideas?

2nd. I installed another nesrgb in my top loader using the adapter. I wired it exactly like the front loader I just did. I can hear the game play but have zero video. Is there anything I need to do different for the top loader to work?
sammargh
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by sammargh »

markfrizb wrote:I got my nesrgb boards in and installed and connected the svideo connector and also rgb (using a VGA connector).
Rgb+sync is pixel perfect video! Very nice.
But I get nothing out of the S-video.

Any ideas?

2nd. I installed another nesrgb in my top loader using the adapter. I wired it exactly like the front loader I just did. I can hear the game play but have zero video. Is there anything I need to do different for the top loader to work?
One the first try flipping the chroma & luma wires. I got that backwards when I wired up a s-video port to my Genesis once. Also make sure that if you're on NTSC the jumper for s-video should be closed, not open.

On the second a little explanation on the wiring is necessary. Did you use the extra regulator? Have you used a multimeter to verify the PPU is getting +5V? Have you also checked for continuity from the PPU pins to the spots on the motherboard?
markfrizb
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by markfrizb »

markfrizb wrote:I got my nesrgb boards in and installed and connected the svideo connector and also rgb (using a VGA connector).
Rgb+sync is pixel perfect video! Very nice.
But I get nothing out of the S-video.

Any ideas?

2nd. I installed another nesrgb in my top loader using the adapter. I wired it exactly like the front loader I just did. I can hear the game play but have zero video. Is there anything I need to do different for the top loader to work?
Well, I was stupid! I wired up the VGA cable wrong. Rewired it properly and it works perfect.

Thanks for the tips!

I haven't looked at the front loader s-video issue yet. Will report back when I do.
Thanks!

Question to VileTim: will the next batch be exactly the same as the first? Or will it have any new features?
mufunyo
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by mufunyo »

markfrizb wrote:Question to VileTim: will the next batch be exactly the same as the first? Or will it have any new features?
Can I say socketed palette EEPROM? :D
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loopyeddie
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by loopyeddie »

Well I must be the person who messed this up the quickest.

Please, help. If anyone is willing to look at this in person, I'll gladly ship it to them and pay well for the repair.

I'm putting this in an AV Famicom. I know it worked before this project. After taking out the PPU and putting the sockets in place, I popped the PPU right into those sockets just to make sure everything was still working fine. I get a gray screen. I took another PPU out of a US front loader and tried that. Black screen (would this even work? Is the PPU universal for each model?). I have checked every solder point on the sockets to the motherboard with a meter and they all test fine.

I'm at a loss here. I haven't even bothered with the NESRGB yet since I can't even get it to work with just the PPU socketed.

Here's some pics. Man, I'm pretty gutted about this one. I have been dreaming about getting this up and running. I left work early to install it!

Any ideas?

Image

Image

Image

Image
alamone
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by alamone »

Use a multimeter and check the continuity of the pins from the top of the PPU to the solder side.
Also, what exactly did you use to remove the PPU? You might have damaged some traces on the top of the PCB.
sammargh
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by sammargh »

Do you have a multimeter? Try using it with the ppu in the socket and check for continuity from the PPU pin to the bottom pin on the motherboard. Those scratches on the top portion of the motherboard are concerning though.


Edit: woops beaten
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loopyeddie
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by loopyeddie »

Yes, I have a meter and I checked each socket.

I'm concerned about the scratches as well. I used a small screwdriver as a lever to pop the PPU in and out the the socket. I've probably done it about a dozen times switching PPUs.

How can I check the traces on the top side?

Thanks
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

Jesus, those scratches are most likely the problem then. Use a multimeter set to continuity mode to check for broken traces. Hopefully next time you'll use a non-marring tool as opposed to a screwdriver...
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Pasky
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Pasky »

Having a bit of difficutly myself, I don't want to use the external regulator, I installed a switching regulator that's capable of 3.5 Amps (I dont wanna hear about interference, I know, I've already run it through a pi filter and a few inductors). I remember reading somewhere about a jumper that needs to be set if you want to use the onboard regulator? Which is this? The documentation is pretty poor. Thanks.
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loopyeddie
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by loopyeddie »

Ok, yes, I get it. I fucked up with the scratches. Now I'd like to fix it.

I (very carefully) removed some of the green layer around the worst scratch to see where that through the board trace went. It is completely surrounded by copper (which is ground), with no other traces leading to it. This leads me to believe that this trace connects to ground. Here is a pic:

Image

That hole connects to the 4th pin from the left on the CPU right above it in the pic. The hole and the 4th pin do not show continuity to ground however. So basically, as far as I can tell. The 4th pin connects to the hole and nowhere else. Does anyone know how I can figure out if it is supposed to connect to ground (the copper all around the hole)? If so, I can repair the trace.

Yes, ha ha I am stupid, and ruined my Famicom. Dumb old me, I should just chop off my fingers.
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Pasky
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Pasky »

For anyone wondering, the jumper I was looking for is J3.
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

That 4th pin you're describing is D4 which does not connect to ground but goes to the matching pin on the PPU. The copper covering on the board isn't actually ground but is an additional solder mask that covers up the actual traces. You could lightly scratch it off around that area and see which traces are broken.
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loopyeddie
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by loopyeddie »

ApolloBoy wrote:That 4th pin you're describing is D4 which does not connect to ground but goes to the matching pin on the PPU. The copper covering on the board isn't actually ground but is an additional solder mask that covers up the actual traces. You could lightly scratch it off around that area and see which traces are broken.
Okay, thank you!

I checked continuity from D4 to the matching pin on the PPU and I come up with nothing. Should I be showing continuity?


*Added: I have my US front loader to check against. When I follow that pin (D4), I end up at a leg on the sram SRAM chip. It shows continuity all the way. When I check CPU pin D4 on my famicom, I don't get any continuity at the SRAM chip at all. Maybe this is a problem?
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RGB32E
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by RGB32E »

I installed the kit in a late model toaster (CPU11) a couple of days ago. The result is fantastic! I was surprised how clean the audio amp sounds! No more buzzing audio, even at extremely loud levels! I decided to use 22AWG wires for the regulator connections to the system and NESRGB PCB. I noticed that the extra regulator doesn't get very warm even after an hour or so of use. I'm using mini 75 ohm coax cables for connecting the audio and RGBS output (Belden 179DT). :mrgreen:

Excellent job Tim! :twisted: I'm having to double take some games that I've gotten used to seeing in arcade PPU RGB! :P
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by evil_ash_xero »

RGB32E wrote:I installed the kit in a late model toaster (CPU11) a couple of days ago. The result is fantastic! I was surprised how clean the audio amp sounds! No more buzzing audio, even at extremely loud levels! I decided to use 22AWG wires for the regulator connections to the system and NESRGB PCB. I noticed that the extra regulator doesn't get very warm even after an hour or so of use. I'm using mini 75 ohm coax cables for connecting the audio and RGBS output (Belden 179DT). :mrgreen:

Excellent job Tim! :twisted: I'm having to double take some games that I've gotten used to seeing in arcade PPU RGB! :P

God damn...I wish I had bought some of the first batch. Now I gotta wait. :cry:
viletim
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

antron wrote:I guess it still provides sync, right? What do you think of the theory that the PPU video might provide the best sync possible?
Sync is just a pulse after every video line to say the line ends here. The sync signal for all parts of the NESRGB comes from the PPU video output. The original video output or the PPUV signal has the least amount of stuff in the processing chain, but it shouldn't make any real difference which one you choose.

robneal81 wrote:
Hamburglar wrote:What's the recommended way to do the "stereo" mod for the toaster NES if also using the NESRGB?
Right...and how should we route Famicom expansion audio to work through the stereo mod, when using the NESRGB?
Don't use the audio section of the NESRGB if you want "stereo" audio becasue it only has a single channel mixer-amplifier.
Hamburglar wrote: The one thing I found fairly difficult was the pin-headers. Soldering them in is easy. Soldering them in so they are perfectly straight and not on a slight angle was very difficult. But I got it in the end.
I had a step in the guide explaining how to solder the headers in straight. I cut it out when eiditing becasue it seemed obvious to me. I'll put it back in the next time I revise it.
leonk wrote:As far as I understand it, Tim added the extra regulator as to not burn out the existing system one (probably under rare circumstances it's possible to draw more current than the stock regulator can supply). Well, I was wondering, Tim's solution for adding the extra regulator for his custom board is one solution but why has no one explored another - replace the stock regulator with one that still outputs 5v DC but is rated for higher current? Wouldn't that solve the problem (in a cleaner install)??
Not quite. The current (load) is increased by the addition of the NESRGB board but it's not current I am concerned about, it's power dissipation in the form of heat. I don't want the regulator to melt! The important variables are the size/thermal properties of the heatsink and the input voltage from the AC adapter. The actual regular part makes no difference. The votlage from the original Australian AC adapter is rather high but this may not always be the case.

I think the external regulator is probably not necessary on the AV Famicom or NES top loader due to the size of the heatsink but this should be tested with a calibrated finger after running the unit for an hour or so.
cr4zymanz0r wrote:My RGB NESicom is done! http://imgur.com/a/GgxdF
When I added the Famicom cart slot I was getting some sprite corruption on FDS games. Some pulldown resistors to CPU pins 21 through 25 mostly fixed the issue but every once in a while I'd get a tiny graphical glitch for half a second.
HOWEVER, with the NESRGB board installed the sprite corruption issue on FDS is completely eradicated even without pulldown resistors. It's even gone when I have the NESRGB board set to off and I'm using the default PPU generated composite. I don't know what voodoo it's doing but I like it!.
The level translator ICs on the NESRGB are buffering the CPU data bus between the PPU and the rest if the system at all times. Perhaps they have a differenct logic threshold to the PPU which makes them more immune to noise on the bus.
cr4zymanz0r wrote:I also did figure out how to mix Famicom expansion audio into the NESRGB sound circuit. It's very similar to the regular front loader Famicom sound mod but the last part is slightly different.
I like this method. It's the easiest way to do it.
markfrizb wrote:Question to VileTim: will the next batch be exactly the same as the first? Or will it have any new features?
The only thing I will add is an extra resistor + solder pad for Famicom audio mixing. Everything else will ramain the same.
loopyeddie wrote:Ok, yes, I get it. I fucked up with the scratches. Now I'd like to fix it.
I doubt you actually severed a track with your screwdriver. You just scrached the solder resist.

The only thing that immediately comes to mind is that you may have a plated through hole when removing the PPU. The PCB holes have a copper plating which joint the traces on the top to the traces on the bottom. If you damage the plating you could possible have a pin which is soldered to the pad on the underside of the board but makes no connection to the trace on the to side.
markfrizb
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by markfrizb »

cr4zymanz0r wrote:I also did figure out how to mix Famicom expansion audio into the NESRGB sound circuit. It's very similar to the regular front loader Famicom sound mod but the last part is slightly different.
I like this method. It's the easiest way to do it.

[/quote]

What method is this???

markfrizb wrote:Question to VileTim: will the next batch be exactly the same as the first? Or will it have any new features?
The only thing I will add is an extra resistor + solder pad for Famicom audio mixing. Everything else will ramain the same. [/quote]

So will the audio still be mono?
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cr4zymanz0r
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by cr4zymanz0r »

viletim wrote:
cr4zymanz0r wrote:I also did figure out how to mix Famicom expansion audio into the NESRGB sound circuit. It's very similar to the regular front loader Famicom sound mod but the last part is slightly different.
I like this method. It's the easiest way to do it.
markfrizb wrote:Question to VileTim: will the next batch be exactly the same as the first? Or will it have any new features?
The only thing I will add is an extra resistor + solder pad for Famicom audio mixing. Everything else will ramain the same.
So, this will get me a discount on the next order. Right? ;)
Seriously though, After seeing how awesome this is I do want to buy another one to put in my NES top loader too. I'm pretty sure I could get Famicom audio mixing working on it too with some minor changes (to the Famicom adapter and top loader PCB, not the NESRGB board).
markfrizb wrote: What method is this???
It's in one of my previous posts in this thread http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 75#p964375
markfrizb
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by markfrizb »

cr4zymanz0r wrote:
viletim wrote:
cr4zymanz0r wrote:I also did figure out how to mix Famicom expansion audio into the NESRGB sound circuit. It's very similar to the regular front loader Famicom sound mod but the last part is slightly different.
I like this method. It's the easiest way to do it.
markfrizb wrote:Question to VileTim: will the next batch be exactly the same as the first? Or will it have any new features?
The only thing I will add is an extra resistor + solder pad for Famicom audio mixing. Everything else will ramain the same.
So, this will get me a discount on the next order. Right? ;)

Seriously though, After seeing how awesome this is I do want to buy another one to put in my NES top loader too. I'm pretty sure I could get Famicom audio mixing working on it too with some minor changes (to the Famicom adapter and top loader PCB, not the NESRGB board).
markfrizb wrote: What method is this???
It's in one of my previous posts in this thread http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 75#p964375
Forgive my ignorance, but the audio mixing, are there sounds that are not heard without the mixing?

I'm not very familiar with the famicoms.....
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cr4zymanz0r
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by cr4zymanz0r »

markfrizb wrote:
cr4zymanz0r wrote: Forgive my ignorance, but the audio mixing, are there sounds that are not heard without the mixing?

I'm not very familiar with the famicoms.....
Yes, some sound would be missing on certain Famicom games without modding the NES. The more notable games being Akumajo Densetsu (Japanese Castlevania 3), Gimmick!, and Lagrange Point. Some Famicom games contain extra sound hardware in them that gets mixed into the standard Famicom/NES audio. You can find more info and a list of applicable games here: http://famitracker.com/wiki/index.php?t ... sion_sound
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