BitBlitz: 15k RGB -> VGA

[Crafty+Mech]

Well, like this: Supergun (or so) -> cable: DIN to D-sub 15-pin -> RetroPix -> VGA PC CRT at 31KHz

Is that correct?

Yep!

[markfrizb]

So when is the projected release for this?

And will it have a VGA port for input and a VGA port for an output?

[BitFaced]

And if it was possible, should I add Composite to it?

[Crafty+Mech]

So when is the projected release for this?

And will it have a VGA port for input and a VGA port for an output?

Yep, HD15 (VGA) on both ends. The input side also offers a 6 pin header, and 5 pin JAMMA video connector.

I don't have a release date yet, but I'm working hard now to wrap up the project. Stay tuned.

No support for composite input.

[BitFaced]

So when is the projected release for this?

And will it have a VGA port for input and a VGA port for an output?

Yep, HD15 (VGA) on both ends. The input side also offers a 6 pin header, and 5 pin JAMMA video connector.

I don't have a release date yet, but I'm working hard now to wrap up the project. Stay tuned.

No support for composite input.

Okay!

[Night_Shadow]

Just found this thread, will be buying one when the device is ready! Can't wait

[BitFaced]

The answer may sound obvious, but should I definitively get a VGA-HDMI adapter over a VGA-Component adapter?

[Fudoh]

A VGA to component transcoder likely won't work with the integrated scanline device (unless Crafty adds a flip for the horizontal sync polarity).

[BitFaced]

A VGA to component transcoder likely won't work with the integrated scanline device (unless Crafty adds a flip for the horizontal sync polarity).

Okay so, HDMI then.
And also, I'm curious if transcoders for Composite and S-Video to VGA would work with this.

[Crafty+Mech]

A VGA to component transcoder likely won't work with the integrated scanline device (unless Crafty adds a flip for the horizontal sync polarity).

Okay so, HDMI then.
And also, I'm curious if transcoders for Composite and S-Video to VGA would work with this.

If you already have VGA from a composite/s-video converter, then the RetroPix would be redundant.

[BitFaced]

A VGA to component transcoder likely won't work with the integrated scanline device (unless Crafty adds a flip for the horizontal sync polarity).

Okay so, HDMI then.
And also, I'm curious if transcoders for Composite and S-Video to VGA would work with this.

If you already have VGA from a composite/s-video converter, then the RetroPix would be redundant.

Oh right. They would be the linedoublers. Okay.

[Fudoh]

yeah, don't know where this would be going either...

[BitFaced]

*CoughCough* Also if I got this, I could set the Wii to 480i and put it through this to get a rough idea on how the system looks with scanlines (nice feature BTW). I've heard it makes it look better.

[BitFaced]

So out of curiosity, if the scaler is supposed to be "no-frills" then why do we have the option of scanlines? It's a great additional feature, but what makes it more special than other suggested features?

[Xyga]

Well, I have no idea how 'scanlines' will work in the RetroPix, but I can tell there's a difference between those produced by an XRGB and a scanline generator like the SLG3000.

The lines produced by the SLG are not really 'black', I mean the color, it is not a matter of intensity.
When I watch closely at one of my CRTs the empty/dark lines between the illuminated ones stay black no matter what.
On a LCD+scaler, XRGBs produce black lines as well, but the SLG's are grey even at max intensity.

So maybe a scanlines feature that's directly part of the hardware like on Micomsoft's machines is a better choice ?

[Fudoh]

but I can tell there's a difference between those produced by an XRGB and a scanline generator like the SLG3000.

no, there isn't - at least not within the usual density range.

[Xyga]

Mmh. It is hard to explain, I don't have the proper technical knowledge for that, but I'll try to post pictures to illustrate my point.
Pretty obvious when you see it!
I need to borrow a decent camera though...

[Fudoh]

my apologies, I think I misread your post. I thought you said there's a difference between a XRGB and a SLG unit. Instead you meant there's a difference between a CRT and a XRGB or SLG, right ? (not really sure)

On a LCD you have use 100% scanlines to get the same effect. You then end up with very strong scanlines similar to a Sony BVM monitor. To get lighter scanlines like you get them on many arcade CRTs, you can only simulate this by using semi-transparent scanlines.

Unless you use a UHD panel and an emulator like MAME, there's nothing you can do about it.

On my setup though a XRGB with enabled scanlines produces 100% the same scanlines like a XRGB with disabled scanlines plus a SLG3000.

[BitFaced]

I meant to ask how scanlines fit the "no-frills" design of the processor; Shouldn't they be considered an additional suplement instead of something truly necessary for no-frills? I do know for one thing that it's easy to put in these simple scanline boards because Crafty Mech also made the SLG Mini.

[Xyga]

Well sorry Fudoh my post's not very clear, I hope this one will have enough details.

I really mean that from my obsevations the SLG cannot produce consistantly black lines like the XRGBs do.
From a few testing sessions this is what I could observe:

When comparing the XRGB-2's, XRGB-3's, and SLG300's lines (3's at 100% and SLG's pots to the guard) it was obvious on the same picture(s) that the SLG's were not black but dark-grey at best.

Overall this resulted in the SLG's dark-grey lines being more easily tinted/dyed by the surrounding pixel's colors, and showing faint clear lines in dark areas.

Comparatively to a crt, the lines produced by the XRGBs produced an effet closer to what I can see on my 72cm Trinitron for instance, with no such issues as the SLG's.

One may think this is not really a problem since 'max' lines are too much for viewing comfort anyway.
But from a basic 'accuracy' point of view I have a feeling the actual 'blackness' of the produced lines has its importance, even at lower density, for the overall tentative at imitating an actual crt's lines.

I've tried with another SLG unit fearing mine was maybe faulty or damaged but the results were the same.
Tried swithcing VGA cables and displays as well but no difference.

Sorry this may seem like a bold statement and there's possibility something was wrong with the way I tested this.
I think this really deserves pictures so I'll borrow a camera and post pics ASAP.

EDIT: @BitFaced: by 'no frills' maybe he just meant 'no unwanted processing' ?

[BitFaced]

EDIT: @BitFaced: by 'no frills' maybe he just meant 'no unwanted processing' ?

I thought it was avoiding supplements to bring it to a cheap price.

[emphatic]

I think no-frills means that it just has the needed features to get low res games looking good on a high res (non-hd) screen without any fussing about. And while keeping the price point attractive to as many people as possible.

[BitFaced]

I think no-frills means that it just has the needed features to get low res games looking good on a high res (non-hd) screen without any fussing about. And while keeping the price point attractive to as many people as possible.

Not to sound like I don't know about them, but I guess in that sense it would be kind of necessary.

[Crafty+Mech]

I think no-frills means that it just has the needed features to get low res games looking good on a high res (non-hd) screen without any fussing about. And while keeping the price point attractive to as many people as possible.

^ This.

I know a thing or two about scanlines, so including that feature is no trouble and won't really move the price point.

[dieKatze88]

The Scanline generator will be optional, right?

By Optional I mean it can be turned Off, or effectively disabled by making it not alter the output video image.

[Crafty+Mech]

The Scanline generator will be optional, right?

Yes, the default will be no scanlines, and they can be enabled via a switch on the board.

[dieKatze88]

The Scanline generator will be optional, right?

Yes, the default will be no scanlines, and they can be enabled via a switch on the board.

Sweet.

[Sixfortyfive]

Hate to nag you about this Crafty, but I was wondering if you had any kind of ETA for this product, even if it's just a ballpark figure rather than an exact date. My proposed Saturn Bomberman side tournament for my local fighting game scene's next event basically hinges on the release of this device.

[Ms. Tea]

I have nothing to add except that I'm really interested in getting one when it comes out! Also curious about an ETA, though I can be patient.

[StarCreator]

Really interested in seeing what happens with this on the aforementioned DDR use case (where the game will switch between a 480i menu mode and a 240p gameplay mode without skipping a beat). The 480i parts look horrible on newer tri-sync CRTs like the Makvision I see installed in DDR cabinets so often these days. Framebuffering the 480i wouldn't even be an issue since there's no gameplay at that resolution, just as long as the 240p gets linedoubled without buffering...